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Posts: 9
Join Date: Nov 2003
01-31-2013, 10:09 PM

PART 2 of 2
Interview by theRenegade

Renegade: Thanks for coming back to do the second round of this interview. I know you don't have a lot of time on your hands to do shit like this but let me tell you. The readers of the anasci newsletter will really enjoy this.

Cylon: So will the feds if they read it. You know they are on every board out there.

Renegade: Yeah I can't even lie or spin that. Every time you hear of a source busted or some steroid related crime and the punk who gets hit snitches, you know they tell them about the forums.

Cylon: It’s nothing new. They have known about the forums since the internet was turned on. If you’re a source coming into the game now you have to realize that the feds are patrolling the boards like the coast guard patrols the harbors.

Renegade: So since you know the feds are out there, making up screen names, calling everybody "bro", posting away trying to get inside tips, what do you do to make sure you're not one of the unlucky saps that get hit?

Cylon: Well to be honest it isn’t as easy as it used to be to spot them. See back in the day the feds really didn’t have the man power to waste fighting the war and roids. They might have assigned 2 or 3 people in the entire DEA taskforce to surf the web. They really didn’t have the resources to waste on shit like that but ever since 2005 when President Bush mentioned steroids in his state of the union address, everything has gone to hell. Feds back in the day were lazy and to an extent most still are. They don’t want to spend 1000 hours on the boards trying to make inroads. They don’t have that kind of time unless they are going after something big. So back in the day you could tell by the way they would post what was going on. Now because of the resources they have when it comes to time and money they can do anything they want and agents have become more sophisticated. They don’t stick out like sore thumbs as much anymore.

Renegade: So be that as it may what do you do to stay safe and not get hit?

Cylon: Well for one thing I don’t take on new clients. It’s only referrals and knows vets. If you can’t have a certain number of people from around the boards verify you then I won’t even waste my time talking to you. It’s just not worth that kind of risk to me. No references equals no service. Also I don’t respond to emails from unsecured places like AOL, Gmail, etc.

Renegade: That should be common knowledge but you would be surprised at how many guys don’t practice what they preach.

Cylon: I see it firsthand all the time in my area, You don’t have to explain it to me. I already know. References are the big thing. I hear people on the forums say to use Google or Hotmail for the business because their excuse for using Gmail is that there are so many users how will they ever know who is doing what because there is too much mail. I say that’s bullshit. These major companies have certifiable geniuses working for them. They can create a filter to find results in emails in half a second. If the email isn’t secure or encrypted I won’t even answer it. I would use PGP but many end users don’t know how to use PGP so it ends up being too much of a hassle. Hell even PGP has a backdoor now so nothing is truly safe. Using common sense is still the best defense.

Renegade: I guess we can thank the rat bastard Jose Canseco got the ball rolling on all of this for us?

Cylon: Well he brought it to the forefront and since he was an athlete it gave the politicians a spring board to make themselves look good be hitting up all the poor bodybuilders. They became easy targets. But Canseco just kind of let the cat out of the bag so to speak. Same with Ken Caminiti back in 2003. That just brought it out into the mainstream but even then it was just a passing thing. Shit didn't start to get really serious until Bush said something about it. That got the ball rolling.

Renegade: It rolled pretty far too. Operation Gear Grinder in Mexico and Operation Raw Deal. Those two blew the doors right open in our community.

Cylon: Gear Grinder wasn’t much, I know people get all riled up and sentimental about Mexico being dead and all the old vet companies are gone etc. etc. Really that was a blessing in disguise for the UGL guys here in the USA. The day I heard that I thought to myself a lot of ******** UGL's just got a whole lot richer. I mean look at it from this perspective. Before 2005 you had euro sources selling human grade shit, ******** guys selling mex gear the mulled back across the border and a few sprinkled UGL's like IP and old Bruce Kneller a.k.a Red Star of China, GAC etc. Those were your choices. So operation gear grinder comes in and takes out one third of the competition and that left a lot of guys scrambling to find new income. Where do they turn?

Renegade: China?

Cylon: Exactly. China had just started getting to be known for powders. Major USA ******** UGL's were just getting rolling because at that point the main home brewers only made tren from the old finaplix pellets. That was it. Home brewing was really out there and considered dangerous by a lot of people. But when you main source goes down...i.e.: Mexico. What option do you have left? UGL went from being fringe to being main stream.

Renegade: And I guess really that made it much easier for the feds right?

Cylon: Well initially no because the change wasn’t rapid. It was gradual. What made it easier was how open shit got back then and even today. Boards posing sources out into the open like its Wal-Mart. The whole careless attitude. If you look back on it, the community got so complacent that they might as well have then a glove and slapped the feds across the face with it.

Renegade: Hasn’t changed much now. I still see that going on.

Cylon: Because people A) never learn or B) repeat others mistakes. What was that old saying “those who don’t study history are doomed to repeat it??”

Renegade: Pretty much sums up todays community?

Cylon: In a nutshell.

Renegade: You think there will ever be a raw deal 2?

Cylon: If you keep up with all the rumors and paranoid people the answer would be yes, but to be honest if there was it would have happened by now. The community is more wide open than ever now. I think to be honest one Obama got elected he didn’t put as much emphasis on it as Bush did.

Renegade: I would have said just the opposite because the man who single handedly made the law worse for us is currently the Vice President of the United States. Joe Biden.

Cylon: Don’t even get me started on him. Please. Looking at time and his ass is disheartening enough.

Renegade: I can see you have no love for him wanting to protect our kids.

Cylon: Zero love for Biden. Used to be back in the day you would get caught will a pallet full of dbol and get a slap on the wrist. Now you are caught with one small tab and all of a sudden you're in jail for 5 years. Insane what the penalties have become for this stuff. You would think it was as bad as crack.

Renegade: Well that’s how the politicians portray it. They are fighting for the kids.

Cylon: Kids my ass. If they were so worried about kids why haven’t any real athletes faced any jail time like Joe Schmuck does.

Renegade: I can hear the frustration in your voice.

Cylon: Makes me mad just thinking about it. Huge double standard.

Renegade: Yeah but when was the last time you really saw Joe user get hit hard?

Cylon: All the time. Getting back to the feds, they are some sneaky motherfuckers which is one reason I try to do everything I can to keep my distance from them. They will do anything to really bust you. I don’t have to rehash all the horror stories but if you have been around for any decent length of time you will have heard or seen a lot of underhanded shit they do. I got no respect for that to be honest.

Renegade: What you mean like throwing a conspiracy charge on your wife or threaten to put your kids in foster care. Shit like that?

Cylon: Exactly. I have heard it all. I think about that all the time too. Because as a source your time is not infinite. Every source has a shelf life. Even though you see some of the European sources around for 10+ years they too have a time frame. The longer you stay in the game the more risk you take. Eventually everybody pays the piper when participating in this kind of endeavor.

Renegade: Well some of these older guys like Russian bodybuilder, IP, ganabol, ALIN, marrsell, etc. that have been around for years, and are still going strong. They always seem to know how to keep themselves out of trouble.

Cylon: They do. all the guys you just named have been around for a very long time and have very good operations running. They wouldn’t still be here if they didn’t, but let me tell you, someday even for them their time will run out. They will slip up or somebody they know and think they can trust will get in trouble. And then the roof will come crashing in. I hope not but it’s just the way it is. Unless you retire you have only one other option. Busted. It will happen. Just wait.

Renegade: They must also have money stashed away to so when they do step away its all good for them.

Cylon: they better. They would be smart if they did. But you never know. I know I will. Easy come easy go when you make the kind of money a good source can make. Most guys would probably blow it on cars, rims, boats etc. but I prefer to save my money. I try not to live above my means and draw attention to myself. The farther in the shadows I stay the better I like it.

Renegade: Well it’s got to be hard to put away any really decent money these days will all the sources out there to choose from. So much competition. Everybody trying to get the lowest price with best T/A. It’s not like a guy can make a shit ton in a short period of time.

Cylon: Well there is tons of competition. That’s both good and bad. Good because new guys usually have no clue on what to do. They run their business poorly because they are usually a dumbass kid or shortsighted meathead who only look at one thing. Money. They come in offer all kinds of sales, free product to get guys to try their brand and for a few minutes they do what they are supposed to and then slowly the shipping is late, emails go unanswered, orders get fucked up. People complain, sources come up with excuses, gets in over his head and bails. I've seen it 100 times before.

Renegade: So what’s the good in that? All I see is bad. People getting fucked out of their money.

Cylon: It is bad for them but it’s good for us sources because it makes those who left to find better deals come back and realize it’s better to stick with a proven provider. Look I get it. Everybody wants to make all the money they can and sourcing sounds like an easy way to make a ton of cash in a short period of time. They couldn’t be more wrong.

Renegade: How so?

Cylon: Well if you want to survive in this game you have to treat it like a business. A real business. Now I don’t mean go out and get a credit card processer and start taking credit. I have seen sources do that and laugh. People have gotten that comfortable or they think they are that untouchable and that they resort to credit cards. That’s okay because guys like them are ALWAYS the first to go. And when they do its good for us because the people that left us come pouring back in.

Renegade: Are you mad that everyday 10 new sources pop up. It must make it difficult on your business?

Cylon: Well it can if you are an intermediate source but the really popular sources don’t have any issues because they have a built in customer base which is loyal and won’t leave unless something drastic happens. So when the newbie source is popped all the customers go into a frenzy looking for help and the normal balance is restored.

Renegade: But don’t you feel that with all these new sources popping up every day that it gets to be too crowded. I mean there is only so much business to go around.

Cylon: I think about that sometimes and it’s true. It does seem that when you see all these new guys pop in daily the amount of money available to make decreases. But I guess that is the natural order of business right? Only the strong survive. Everything changes, even the steroid game. And the good sources, the ones that stay around a while adapt with the change. It used to be back in the day that if you sourced you were guaranteed to make good money if you always had product in and shipped out in a decent amount of time. That doesn’t necessarily hold true today.

Renegade: Customers are exactly loyal anymore either. They are looking for the best deal and will leave long time sources to find it.

Cylon: true. But that is human nature. You always want the best deal. I mean if your source was selling a bottle of test for $40 and you found it for $25 from somebody else wouldn’t you take that deal too.

Renegade: Yeah but with the price battles of all the UGL’s now in order to get business it must drive profits really down. I see guys giving away free stuff plus $200 on your next order…stuff like that. You really have to do the same stuff to keep your customers otherwise they will leave for better deals like this. If you always see guys doing this how do these guys make any money? What’s the point?

Cylon: I can’t really argue with that to be honest with you. That’s why I’m private and have my built in customer base who really don’t go anyplace else but when I see this type of business behavior from other sources, mostly newer ones trying to get their foot in the door, I do often ask myself why they are doing this for so little reward. This is no game. The consequences of you getting caught are real. You will do time. So why take the same amount of risk for diminished returns. Do these guys not have any other real jobs but this? It just reeks of desperation to me and when you have a desperate source you have a careless one, and that can lead to all kinds of trouble down the road.

Renegade: So you would never do sales or free giveaways?

Cylon: My prices are so good I don’t have to and my customers are happy with that. They know with me they will always get what they pay for in a timely businesslike fashion. And like I said my prices are so good because I buy in such volume and sell in such volume that I don’t have the give free deals because what my guys pay for is basically a deal unto itself.

Renegade: Wow... sounds like I need to get on your customer list.

Cylon: You need to but you can’t. I’m not taking any new customers. My circle is tight and where I need it to be. You won’t see me being so careless out in the open. My customers enjoy that type of security. They also know that I don’t deal local. As I said last time, I don’t mix the two because you’re asking for trouble if you do.

Renegade: So how do you see the game today?

Cylon: It has drastically changed from even a few years ago. You don’t have the security of knowing who people really are anymore. The forums have really blown up all over the internet. Forums owners take sources on without doing any real background checks because they want that sponsorship money. And I get that. That is really the other side of the coin. For some like us sources, the more there are the better it can be because it takes the heat off us older timers who are more secure and in the shadows., We let the young silly ones who offer credit card processing and PayPal payment take the heat. The feds know they are easy pickings and are sitting back collecting info on these guys and neglecting the harder sources to bust like myself. Feds don’t really want to work. They want easy shit so they can look good to the general public but they have no real interest in tracking down leads and trying to bust people that would take a lot of resources so for some sources its good in that way. It’s also good as I said for forum owners because they can make a lot of money if they have a popular forum that has a lot of members. They can charge out the ass for a banner. So they make almost as good money as the sources do a month on just sponsorship fees. The bad side is that so many careless sources and so many of them just in general bring so much heat to us. We have already seen the game changed twice because of the open carelessness of sources. The game is always evolving. If you are to be successful you just really have to be one step ahead.

Renegade: Speaking of the forums owners with a bazillion ads on their sites. What do you think of a source?

Cylon: Well its two fold. It’s good in one way because it helps to advertise your business if you choose to be out in the open like that. I have seen new guys within that last 3-4 years really blow up because of the banners and then they go private. They took a risk and it paid off for them. For that I can’t really blame the results. It leads to the feds really knowing who you are and being able to email you and possibly get a leg up on identifying you but these guys played their cards right and it seemed to really work out for them. So in that regard it was good for them. I guess it’s good for the forum owners because like I said they can make a lot of money but here is the thing. With as far as the feds will sometimes reach to bust people, I’m not quite sure how some of these boards are still up. Even though they are in other countries servers, I have seen the feds go to other countries to bust guys so their sites being in other countries really isn’t much of a defense. They can’t put up all the disclaimers they want but I have seen the feds brush that aside to bust guys, so to me it’s only a matter of time before some really big board gets busted and the owner gets charged with facilitating steroid sales.

Renegade: Can they do that?

Cylon: Why not? The USA seems to think it can do whatever it wants. I realize these boards put up their little legal disclaimers saying that if you are in a country where it illegal then don’t order and they are no responsible if you break their laws. I look at it like this. Making bombs or buying bomb making material isn’t illegal in the middle east but if some Pakistani or some afghan Taliban put up a website to buy bomb making materials and people from the USA were buying it but the site said if you’re from the USA don’t buy, do you really think the USA would do nothing? The site would be down in 10 minutes and the CIA would have snipers outside that dudes mud hut in an hour. Same with the steroid game. The feds are stupid anymore. The laws are different. Those little disclaimers are bullshit and the feds know it. They know guys from the USA are buying.

Renegade: So what the reason these forum owners haven’t been busted yet?

Cylon: Could be any number of reasons. Could be the feds don’t care anymore but I doubt it. Could be they haven’t busted a source from that board who has concrete info to give to them to help them out. Could be they are using the board to continually monitor sources to bust them. If the board goes away it gets harder to track then. I would guess that would be the reason. With the feds there is always a reason.

Renegade: So you would never openly advertise on a board.

Cylon: I have from time to time. When I had slots open or wanted to expand I did take risks from time to time. I won’t sit here and bullshit you about it. But I try to not do it as a habit.

Renegade: But I thought you said that was a security risk?

Cylon: This is a high risk high reward business. In every business there is risk involved. You just really have to try to minimize it as best you can.

Renegade: I know this interview is getting long and you need to go. I can see you getting antsy. I appreciate the time you have taken so I have just one more question. What’s it like in the day in the life of cylon. Tell our readers what it’s like to be a source for one day.

Cylon: Well... I get up in the morning roughly about 7am. I start work every day at 10am so I like to get my workouts done and not have to worry about them so I hit the gym about 8am and lift for an hour and a half and then head to work. I get off in the afternoon and I head home to check emails. After I have answered all the emails and private messages or threads on the forums I’m a member on, I get orders ready to give to my runners to ship out. Once all the orders are packed up I give them to my runners to send out for me. If payments are waiting I will have my runners bring me the payments when they come to pick up the orders to send out. It’s not a glamorous as you think. I don’t keep things near me except when I am packing things up. I like to do that myself to make sure it’s done correctly. I give my runners the shipping instructions and that’s really it. I try to run it like a business. For me there is no wild partying or drug use. No stripper orgies, no really crazy drug running stories like you would hear from the old guys that used to go to Mexico. I think when you mix all that rec shit in there it leads to trouble and security breaches so I stay away from it. My runners are the same. When I told you last time about expanding my circle and the liability I made sure when picking my runners that they too didn’t do stupid shit or have big mouths. As far as getting gear, I have my gear delivered to a runner. He brings it to me and I store it in a secure location. I really don’t even have it connected to me so I just order it when it’s needed, wait for it to come in, and then take inventory, update lists, mass mail customers, etc. Just business related stuff. My days are pretty blah. It may not be that way for some sources but I like the quiet life. To me quiet equals low key and out of sight.

Renegade: Damn I thought there would be some drug fueled porn star fucking stories.

Cylon: I wish but I can’t honestly say that is me.

Renegade: Hey man I really appreciate you taking the time out for this interview. The readers will enjoy it and it’s been a blast getting to sit down with you.

Cylon: Hey no problem. I’m glad I could help make your newsletter better.
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