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Join Date: Nov 2003
04-01-2013, 09:21 AM

PART 2 of 2
Interview by: theRenegade

therenegade: We're back again for another issue of the AnaSCI Newsletter! Once again we have IPGear with us to finish our interview from the last issue. Thanks again IPG for taking the time to sit down with us today.

IPGear: No problem. We hope that the readers enjoyed it and was able to take something away from the previous newsletter. We know we enjoyed reading the other articles and interviews of the newsletter. It's a wealth of knowledge.

therenegade: Yes these newsletters just keep getting better and better! Old guys like us find something new in each one that we never knew. A lot of great contributors from the ones writing the articles to the ones giving the interviews!

Ok, so let's get back to it then, shall we. I will try to make the rest of
this interview quick and painless and let you get back to your work.

IPGear: We are ready. But before we get going I would like to touch a little more on the scammers, particularly the Geneforza and the "peptide guru" Osiris (Norman Smallwood) affairs.

We have been doing this for a very long time and have seen pretty much everything this business has to offer or throw at you at one time or another. We have seen scamming sources, scamming customers and scamming remailers.

It takes pretty good guys to play this game successfully for as long as we have been doing it. Guys who honestly face their circumstances, and don't take money for product they don't possess. We have no sympathy for guys who chose to scam rather than be honest and step up.

Personally knowing the two guys GF owes $60K and the 6 months of deceptive responses from GF as well as all the excuses and misdirection that he and his reps continued to give members regarding their orders shows the type of people that are in this business now. When all was said and done GF made a good moving-on fee of over $100k. Not a bad amount for being nothing more then a scammer. And to be honest to all the readers out there, Sky_Cowboy was one of GF's remailers, so anyone that is wondering
what happen he may be a good place to start looking for answers. GF was always speaking poorly of Sky_Cowboy stating that he was always complaining about being broke, so hopefully GF was kind enough to share some of the profit with him.

As for Osiris. Norman Smallwood preached God about as highly as he did himself. Has a large group of followers (friends), who believe his every word. As we have always been told, "If you give a person enough time, they will show their true colors!", and that is exactly what he did. Norm showed where his faith lied - in greed, deceit and constant lies. When all was said and done good ole Norm got over on at least 3 suppliers that we know of for about $300k+ worth of product. Not to shabby for a man of faith and God. Yet his friends continue to back him to the end?

My opinion: The world has always been filled with more compromisers than not. Not sure why! But if you find someone who isn't? That's a very special thing. It requires a belief beyond yourself or your phucked up friends. It ain't natural! But its the only way I know to go! Keep seeking the higher ground, the natural ground, and you will see something no one else will ever see. Someone who sees you are special. I love IP for this reason!

therenegade: Yes Geneforza always came off as a used car salesman. Never liked that guy. Always running the same scam that has been plaguing the boards for some time: stop sending orders but put out the quick "Can't Miss" sale to grab as many more customers as you can before word gets out that you are not delivering. Seeing this a lot more with sources lately and it is getting tougher for the customer because there are so many "trusted" members repping for these sources for their free product that members have no reason not to trust the supplier. I like the new rule about reps being held accountable for the actions of their chosen sources to rep. Should put a little bit of balance back into things once some of these long time vets get banned for being as shady as the sources they are working with!

Personally I never trusted Osiris (Norm), he has always been a shady
character. Going back to the beginning of the bodybuilding internet, guys like us have seen every type of "guru" there is out there. People always fall into their web of bullshit. Osiris is a piece of shit in my book and I have no respect for anyone that stands behind him or his actions. His entire group is filled with snakes as far as I am concerned, I wouldn't trust any of them. All of them knew what he was doing. Shit here is a quote by one of his buddies (a well respected member) who knew everything Osiris was doing:

Big O...if you see this just know you have friends. I hope all is well
Wonder if his quote would have been different if he was one of those
countless customers waiting for their order that Osiris burned them for? Even had the nerve to add in the little 'wink smiley' obviously because he knew the situation going on. But that is the new group of "trusted" members on the boards now. They will rep for anyone for free product, bullshitting members out of their money just as long as they get their shit, backing scumbags like Norm because he didn't screw them over so they do not care. Really trust-worthy?? The regular members should really take note to this and not be so blind when trusting these clowns just because they can build some muscle. Having a physique or making some bullshit posts doesn't change the type of person you are!!

IPGear: Well it is not for us to judge their decisions or actions. We
leave that in the hands of a higher power. We truly believe that there is a God and that he sees everything. People make their own choices freely, they are the ones that have to live with the consequences and have to look in the mirror at the person they truly are, not the person that they would have others perceive them to be. Unfortunately it is just as easy to lie to themselves about who they are as it is to lie to the world. Very sad!

therenegade: Well said, very true!!

Ok, let's get off that subject for a bit as it just sickens me to even
think about people like them!! Those are the ones that deserve to be
busted not the guys that are staying loyal, providing a service that keeps those pieces of shit able to continue juicing in the first place!!

Let's talk a little about payment methods. Most long time sources accept only western union or money gram or some other secure form of payment but now you see guys popping up accepting paypal and credit cards. Is that something you are okay with or do you shake your head at it? I mean isn't that a huge paper trail?

IPGear: Western Union and Money Gram remain our first and only choices today simply because we are unwilling to risk the exposure that comes with other methods. We will not consider an alternative until we have to and as it stands today, we don't have to. I suspect you are right about the paper trail and if that's at all connected to you personally you are way out there on the limb.

therenegade: I completely agree. I have even noticed more recently that some of these new sources are even using their real details when sending payment info to their customers.

IPGear: Now that has to be the most foolish thing you could ever do,
period. You have to always continue to minimize your risk and that surely does not accomplish that. That in fact is going in the opposite direction! Phuck, paypal is bad enough considering that it must be attached to your bank account which is a big enough paper trail but now you take out any leg work that LE has to do by providing your real details?? Only a matter of moments before you go down doing something like that. And again it will be the customer that pays the price because in the end those outstanding orders will not be shipped and there is a big chance that LE will end up with that source's computer and everything left inside because let's be honest, if the source's operation is so flawed in the payment pickup department you can safely assume that their computer safety protocols are even worse.

therenegade: Again, I completely agree. Commonsense is lacking greatly in this new school source and has much to do with the "entitlement generation" thinking they are untouchable. I mean everyone knows LE is all over the boards, plain fact. Yet I read through some of these sponsor threads and see the sources 'reps' talk about texting the source sending them messages discussing orders and such. How absolutely careless can you be?

IPGear: See we have always made it a point to never bother following what any other source does with their businesses, on the boards and in their lives. Too many things that you can just shake your head at and we do not have the time to wonder why a person does what they do. None of the partners in IPG can identify any of the others and that is how it should be. None of the partners handle gear anymore and are in the safest position that this job can possible offer (if there is such a place) and yet we still have protocols set in place to continue minimizing risk. Texting is a major risk, no two ways about it. And giving your phone number to a person that is not even in the core of the group to begin with? Another recipe for failure.

therenegade: Speaking of other sources, most of them have remailers, international guys especially since they need some type of ******** business, because lets face it, getting things through customs isn't easy. You need to be really creative to get things to pass through, how do you pick and choose your remailers? You hear a lot of stories these days about remailers ripping off sources. A few sources have closed shop recently because of this? Do you have remailers and if so how do you make sure they stay in line and don't try to rip you off?

IPGear: Yes its our remailers that do the work and incur the greatest
risk. Its a crap-shoot no matter how you pick them. To the best of your ability, you screen them for negatives before bringing them on. No criminal record, no local dealing, no other relationships that could
interfere with the program, honest, with a good work ethic. About 70% of the time, you can find good guys and have a win-win relationship. But a dishonest, incompetent, rec-user, or local seller can hurt or destroy a program. You minimize your risk by controlling inventory levels and when the decision to terminate is made you most likely have to whittle away their inventory as far as you can, and when it becomes obvious to them what you are doing, try to negotiate out a settlement. Like any other business, there are sometimes high costs associated with terminating someone. They should be well paid, given as good of an orientation as possible which should include protocols for remaining as safe as possible working in a shipping and receiving capacity.

therenegade: I've been around so long that I have heard a lot of crazy
stories regarding IP. That he has had to move numerous times because LE was closing in on him, that they had his family and he had to ship out from middle eastern countries because he couldn't go back to his homeland because he would be arrested on the spot? I even heard stories that he had been killed or died a few times. Just really crazy things over the years. When you get as popular as the IP brand, there are going to be some haters that try to bring down that brand. Are any of these stories true?

IPGear: I guess if anyone would know the truth about the rumors we would, but we don't. The man we talk to today is the same man we talked to in the Renegade days, so it has been the same person since the late 90's. What we know about IP is he's first and foremost a good man and shares many of the values related to the business we do. Over the years he has helped a number of us and never asked for anything in return. He has brought more high dosed product to the ******** market than anyone else.He however has mellowed some, but because of his inability to trust others within his own program, he often truly works 18 hour days and his home life over the years had paid a high price for his involvement. The haters will never appreciate how much he moves, how few complaints he gets, how hard he works, or how big his losses are when they occur. The haters also never appreciate that their negative comments are thrown in with about 50,000 positive customers comments and whether you are talking product or service they just don't amount to much in the big picture.

therenegade: Now actually getting to the gear itself. IP is the original
underground brand. So much so some guys have proclaimed IP the king. I have to say I'd somewhat agree with the assessment since the IP brand has been around so long and has been so successful, how is the quality control of the IP brand these days?

IPGear: Its all manufactured and bottled in China today and it has a
complaint rate somewhere around 1% in our program across the product line. Gone are the days of filling in our kitchens. Since about 2005 we have only seen finished product. Having said that, there are bumps in the road. In September customs was screening for glass and IP lost almost everything he shipped. Therefore in an effort to survive, which is the bottom line, sometimes, he changed over to a medical grade HDPE - High density Polyethylene, unbreakable vial that is no longer glass. The HDPE used in these new vials costs a lot more then glass vials and they have to be specially ordered but the up side is they cannot be copied at this time. These are the types of changes being implemented that has kept IP and ultimately IPG in business for so many years. So you will be seeing the entire IP oil line changing over to these new HDPE vials over the next few months. But when someone criticizes the method or the material, please keep in mind that when most all others have gone under over the years IP has continued to survive. He knows the market and he knows what needs to be done to stay a head of the game. Customers don't like change but need to understand in this business if you don't continue to change with the times then you are doomed to fall into LE's hands at some point.

therenegade: The reason I asked that question is because over the years people have had mixed reviews as all sources do. I mean you can't keep everybody happy but if IP didn't have great gear IP wouldn't still be in business. What do you see as the most popular sellers as far as product goes these days. Is it still the king of the roids, test, deca, and dbol or have more of the exotic steroids taken over?

IPGear: Most all the BD line whether tabs or oils are pretty much
complaint free and in many cases they get heavily promoted. Our customer comments in the sponsors sections on the boards and elsewhere reveal that there are few negatives reported by our customers. QV rates about that high although the 25ml BD vials are a better value and therefore we sell three times as much BD. The ancillaries are IP and I do not remember complaints about them beyond something like Cialis which unfairly gets pinned as the problem when someone cant get it up. We don't censor our threads so they really do pretty much represent our customers experiences and feelings about the service and the products.

therenegade: Speaking of taking over, tell me a little bit about the
decision to take over the QV Mexican brand. Rumors and stories have stated that IP actually bought the license for QV and some have stated that they just decided the counterfeit the labels. What the real story and why when IP is their own successful brand decide to take over a Mexican brand? Why QV and not Denkall, Animal Power, or even Ttokkyo. (Disclaimer: hell some guys reading this are so young they don't even know who Ttokkyo was.)

IPGear: Only 3 or 4 guys in the world know the truth and we or anyone else commenting about it do not. I personally have never asked IP as it never really matter all that much to me. Its a mute point really, as the Mexican brands are long gone and (The Real?) BD has come and gone over the years a couple times. When they are operating, they get mileage I assume by claiming theirs is the real deal. But you would have to be pretty naive not to know that our customers over the last 8 years have voted over and over again with their wallets. We don't keep track of anything but our own program, but someone much wiser than me once said: testosterone, is
testosterone is testosterone, whether its from, US, Europe, Mexico, China, or anywhere else. That's not entirely true, but in regards to the above question its been born out over time.

therenegade: So what can we expect from IP in the future?

IPGear: Pretty much what we have always done. Its a business that could be gone tomorrow. Its a hard business, people and their families get hurt. But the discussion of whether steroids are good or bad we leave to others. For us, its been the best and the worst of times. But isn't that everyone's life?

In addition, as we tried to say above, there's not a better community in the world that we would rather be associated in business with. God Bless and protect it!

therenegade: Well I don't want to take up too much more of your time. The readers really will appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions. A couple more questions and then we're done. First what is a normal day for IPGear?

IPGear: Today its someone managing the account from 6am - Midnight. In the evening orders and payments are assigned. That's the customers service part and I will avoid sharing what a shipper's day is like. I am sure your readers have a fairly good idea. They are the ones who make it all happen. The rest is more of a facilitation, albeit the most time consuming which takes away from our real lives and time with our families as we are in the accounts for most of the entire day and night.

therenegade: Yes I would assume with you guys being at the top of the food chain that there is not much down time for your real lives.

Any last comments you would like to send to all of Osiris' (Norm) friends out there reading this today (actually any friends of scammers that think things are fine as long as they're not the ones being scammed)?

IPGear: Just a word of caution for to any of his friends, which are obviously better friends then he is - A thief and liar does not pick and choose who they steal from or lie to, they will to anyone at any given moment. An immoral person knows no other way - Take this for what it is worth and just stay safe and stay aware.

But even with all the compromisers out there the interview has left me more saddened then anything else as I recall the price truly loyal guys paid for getting involved. There are some heroes in there. Guys who owned their own shit. You guys know who you are and my prayer has always been, that I too will walk through the fire and not compromise myself. The haters can say whatever they want, but one thing they just cannot pin on me or the guys around me is: That we never compromised our integrity. We haven't, and God willing we won't! At least we can always say with our heads held high that we are not the Osiris' or Geneforza's of the industry. Enough of those now as it is!

therenegade: Osiris wouldn't be the first to do this, remember the Kenny Milne (km2000) and Stan Szeto (BigBadAsian) days, where they signed CI agreements as soon as he was arrested before even being processed. People seem to think because someone has a great build, plenty of muscle mass and a high post count that they can be trusted. Guys need to remember that this is the internet and there are very few true friends made. You will never really know a person until you have seen them face the fire, only then will the truth be made clear!! Osiris is just another piece of shit that has shown who he really is!!

Many great people have fallen over the years. If you stay in long enough, this business is bound to take you in one way or another! I am glad that you have weathered the storms and continued to stay around longer then any other source out there going today. I wish you only the best IPG!

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer these questions. IP is one of the best brands around the world and for good reason! Thanks for giving some of the loyal IP customers a glimpse inside their source.

IPGear: It was a pleasure! Sincerely, IPG
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