AnaSCI - Fitness Evolved

Buy Needles and Syringes with NO PRESCRIPTION   Synthetek Muscle Building And Fat Loss Products   Cheap Pure Supplements

©ALL CONTENT OF THIS WEBSITE IS COPYRIGHTED AND CANNOT BE REPRODUCED WITHOUT THE ADMINISTRATORS CONSENT 2003-2019

   
  Synthetek Syntherol  
   
   
   
Largest Selection of Bodybuilding Products   Largest Selection of Bodybuilding Products   Largest Selection of Bodybuilding Products


User CP FAQ Members List Calendar New Posts Quick Links Log Out

AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved


        
        
        
        
        

Automatic Translations (Powered by Yandex):
Albanian Belarusian Catalan Czech Danish Dutch English Estonian Finnish French German Greek Hungarian Italian Latvian Lithuanian Macedonian Norwegian Portuguese Russian Slovak Slovenian Spanish Swedish Turkish Ukrainian

Go Back   Anabolic Steroids Discussion and Bodybuilding Forum > Anabolic Science Section > Anabolic Science Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Joint pain???
Old
  (#1)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jan 2007
Joint pain??? - 04-01-2007, 04:01 PM

Is it normal to have joint pain when your on a cycle or at the end of a cycle? I had some problems with my first cycle. I was taking 500 mg of decca and 450 of test prop a week. Injecting 150 mg test prop every other day. The test prop made me extrememy sick (which is normal for most) and I ended up getting an inner ear infection and a bronchial infection. I went to my doctor and he gave me a strong antibiotic to take care of both infections. He also said that I needed to stop my cycle while on the antibiotics. I lost almost all the gains that I made. Sucked ass!!! My bench went from 315 to 375 in about 5 weeks. Anyhoo, two weeks before I stopped my cycle, I started getting achy joints in my arms. When I stopped the cycle the pain got worse! Its been 3 weeks since I've stopped and the pain is severe enough now where I cant even lift. I havent started any pct. besides the nolvadex that I was taking during the cycle. Aaaand somehow the two vials that I recieved from alin ened up cracked during postal shipment. Can anyone give me some advice with out bagging on me about how I ran my cyle? I thought the joint pain may have came from just lifting too hard on my bench days.

My stats:
190 lbs
5'6
12% body fat

Mike1991, your extremely knowledgeable, any clues on what I should do pal?
   
Reply With Quote
2 broken vials
Old
  (#2)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jan 2007
2 broken vials - 04-01-2007, 04:06 PM

The two broken vials were 1000 hcg that I was going to use 3-4 weeks after my 10 week cycle to start my natural testosterone levels back up.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
mike1991's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 240
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mental Hospital
04-01-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead95
Is it normal to have joint pain when your on a cycle or at the end of a cycle? I had some problems with my first cycle. I was taking 500 mg of decca and 450 of test prop a week. Injecting 150 mg test prop every other day. The test prop made me extrememy sick (which is normal for most) and I ended up getting an inner ear infection and a bronchial infection. I went to my doctor and he gave me a strong antibiotic to take care of both infections. He also said that I needed to stop my cycle while on the antibiotics. I lost almost all the gains that I made. Sucked ass!!! My bench went from 315 to 375 in about 5 weeks. Anyhoo, two weeks before I stopped my cycle, I started getting achy joints in my arms. When I stopped the cycle the pain got worse! Its been 3 weeks since I've stopped and the pain is severe enough now where I cant even lift. I havent started any pct. besides the nolvadex that I was taking during the cycle. Aaaand somehow the two vials that I recieved from alin ened up cracked during postal shipment. Can anyone give me some advice with out bagging on me about how I ran my cyle? I thought the joint pain may have came from just lifting too hard on my bench days.

My stats:
190 lbs
5'6
12% body fat

Mike1991, your extremely knowledgeable, any clues on what I should do pal?

I have no idea. Deca and Test actually boast your immune system. They are often given to people with full blown aids to help with this I generally never get sick hardly while on a cycle. I do after going off. I think you are just having some bad luck. I usually get joint pain while being on wistrol for a long time but deca usually cures it after I go off it. I always get my pain in my shoulders joints.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
AnaSCI VET
 
Offline
Posts: 1,038
Join Date: Sep 2006
04-02-2007, 03:24 AM

I allways seem to beneficiate from the use of aas and heal a lot of small injuries. Your pain is definetly coming from lifting to heavy. Before dropping the weight I really advice you to take a break from benching, before your injury becoming acute.


Use code "Big Danny" to get 5% off your next Synthetek order!

   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
mike1991's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 240
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mental Hospital
04-02-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Danny
I allways seem to beneficiate from the use of aas and heal a lot of small injuries. Your pain is definetly coming from lifting to heavy. Before dropping the weight I really advice you to take a break from benching, before your injury becoming acute.
Thats not true and you can't really just rule that out. He didn't say where he was hurting but it could be many things like Fibromyalgia, bursitis, tendinitis, polymyalgia rheumatica, giant cell arteritis or and other soft tissue rheumatic disorders and it is already acute if he has it. Goal is to make sure it doesn't become chronic.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
AnaSCI SENIOR
 
MaSTa LifTa's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 794
Join Date: Apr 2005
04-02-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1991
I have no idea. Deca and Test actually boast your immune system. They are often given to people with full blown aids to help with this I generally never get sick hardly while on a cycle. I do after going off. I think you are just having some bad luck. I usually get joint pain while being on wistrol for a long time but deca usually cures it after I go off it. I always get my pain in my shoulders joints.
anabolic steroids just like corticosteroids are immunosuppressants. aas when used in aids are used to combat the muscle wasting by their anabolic properties and appetite stimulation.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
mike1991's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 240
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mental Hospital
04-02-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSTa LifTa
anabolic steroids just like corticosteroids are immunosuppressants. aas when used in aids are used to combat the muscle wasting by their anabolic properties and appetite stimulation.

Oh for heaven sakes. AAS are no where near corticosteriods and no offense that is just plain stupid. AAS has been shown to increase T-cell count as with a large number of benefits that was not mention. What about cancer pt or people who have severe burns? Seems to be to me if AAS is immunosuppressants that would be the last thing you would want them to get. Since the majority of these people are on reverse isolation.
   
Reply With Quote
thanks guys
Old
  (#8)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jan 2007
thanks guys - 04-02-2007, 05:24 PM

Thanks guys!!! Actually I read up on decca and test prop before I started using them. In a lot of cases test prop makes a lot of users feel ill (flu like symptoms) but generally go's away after a few weeks. I guess it can take some time before your body gets used to it. Aaand decca is usually prescibed to full blown aids patients, not for imune deficiencies, but for join pain caused by imune deficiencies. I just dont understand what the hell went wrong! The pain isnt in my shoulders (rotaray cuff) but in my elbow region. I feel a little better today. I went back to the doctor and he gave me some Darviset and a muscle relaxer. Still dont feel comfortable lifting anytime soon though.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 21
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Coast, USA
04-02-2007, 05:59 PM

If the pain is located in the elbow region, and no where else, then it's probably prudent to believe you have a sports related injury. If so, it's going to take some time to heal.

If the pain was in all of your joints, that's a different story that would take your M.D to treat.

Deca, and Test usually help with joint pain, not aggrivate it.

Cortizone, on the other hand, would likely cause joint pain. It's the exact opposite of an ANABOLIC steroid. It's a cortico-steroid made to REDUCE inflamation, thus joint pain could be a side. There is no comparison between the two steroids. ZERO! They are night and day different. People hear their friend with the shoulder injury got a "steroid shot," and think muscle. lol! I think cortizone, and want to run away like a scared puppy!

Hope you get this under control soon. Marines overcome all obstacles!

Semper Fi Jarhead95
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
AnaSCI SENIOR
 
MaSTa LifTa's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 794
Join Date: Apr 2005
04-02-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1991
Oh for heaven sakes. AAS are no where near corticosteriods and no offense that is just plain stupid. AAS has been shown to increase T-cell count as with a large number of benefits that was not mention. What about cancer pt or people who have severe burns? Seems to be to me if AAS is immunosuppressants that would be the last thing you would want them to get. Since the majority of these people are on reverse isolation.
First off, I never said corticosteroids and anabolic steroids are the same. I just said they are both immunosuppressants. Yes, I do in fact realize that anabolic steroids increases T cell count as well as RBC and WBC. However, in burn victims anabolic steroids are of course used for their anabolic properties since the elevation in WBC is mild at best with anabolic steroids compared to a colony stimulating factor such as filgrastim, pegfilgrastim and the lesser used sargramostim.

1: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1990 Sep;37(1):71-6. Links
Anabolic steroid effects on immune function: differences between analogues.Mendenhall CL, Grossman CJ, Roselle GA, Hertelendy Z, Ghosn SJ, Lamping K, Martin K.
Department of Medicine, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Cincinnati, Ohio 45220.

As an untoward effect of chronic anabolic steroid use, immunologic alterations may be induced. To evaluate this possibility five commercially available steroids with various types of structural differences were studied in male Sprague-Dawley rats. Animals were divided into five groups and treated with testosterone (Group 1), testosterone propionate (Group 2), testolactone (Group 3), oxandrolone (Group 4), and stanozolol (Group 5). Androgenic anabolic steroids were administered daily, subcutaneously dissolved in oil, at a dose of 1.1 mg/kg. Immune alterations were assessed by skin-test responses to phytohemagglutinin. After five days of treatment (1.1 mg/kg/day) a significant immuno-suppression was observed with all groups. Using oxandrolone as the model stimulant, serum testosterone levels were significantly suppressed, while castration abolished the stimulatory effect. These observations indicate that immune alterations do occur with anabolic steroids which are immuno-suppressive. It appears that these changes are associated with altered gonadal testosterone release.

PMID: 2242353 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Of course since it is considered unethical to do studies in patients with dosages of AAS that bodybuilders use, it's impossible to tell the degree of immunosuppression we get at the dosages we take. In the drug monograph for testosterone enanthate immunosuppression is listed as 2-3% and flu-like syndrome is listed at 1%. We all know that more than 1 out of every 100 people using AAS gets flu-like syndrome though. This is because immunosuppression is a dose-related adverse effect of anabolic steroids use. I practice evidence-based medicine, but as a bodybuilder it is impossible to do so with non-existant studies done in humans at such high doses.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
mike1991's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 240
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mental Hospital
04-02-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSTa LifTa
First off, I never said corticosteroids and anabolic steroids are the same. I just said they are both immunosuppressants. Yes, I do in fact realize that anabolic steroids increases T cell count as well as RBC and WBC. However, in burn victims anabolic steroids are of course used for their anabolic properties since the elevation in WBC is mild at best with anabolic steroids compared to a colony stimulating factor such as filgrastim, pegfilgrastim and the lesser used sargramostim.

1: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1990 Sep;37(1):71-6. Links
Anabolic steroid effects on immune function: differences between analogues.Mendenhall CL, Grossman CJ, Roselle GA, Hertelendy Z, Ghosn SJ, Lamping K, Martin K.
Department of Medicine, Veterans Administration Medical Center, Cincinnati, Ohio 45220.

As an untoward effect of chronic anabolic steroid use, immunologic alterations may be induced. To evaluate this possibility five commercially available steroids with various types of structural differences were studied in male Sprague-Dawley rats. Animals were divided into five groups and treated with testosterone (Group 1), testosterone propionate (Group 2), testolactone (Group 3), oxandrolone (Group 4), and stanozolol (Group 5). Androgenic anabolic steroids were administered daily, subcutaneously dissolved in oil, at a dose of 1.1 mg/kg. Immune alterations were assessed by skin-test responses to phytohemagglutinin. After five days of treatment (1.1 mg/kg/day) a significant immuno-suppression was observed with all groups. Using oxandrolone as the model stimulant, serum testosterone levels were significantly suppressed, while castration abolished the stimulatory effect. These observations indicate that immune alterations do occur with anabolic steroids which are immuno-suppressive. It appears that these changes are associated with altered gonadal testosterone release.

PMID: 2242353 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Of course since it is considered unethical to do studies in patients with dosages of AAS that bodybuilders use, it's impossible to tell the degree of immunosuppression we get at the dosages we take. In the drug monograph for testosterone enanthate immunosuppression is listed as 2-3% and flu-like syndrome is listed at 1%. We all know that more than 1 out of every 100 people using AAS gets flu-like syndrome though. This is because immunosuppression is a dose-related adverse effect of anabolic steroids use. I practice evidence-based medicine, but as a bodybuilder it is impossible to do so with non-existant studies done in humans at such high doses.

These studies are from chronic AAS, but who injects AAS SQ. Even then It says it may be induce. People who smoke may get cancer to but that doesn't mean everyone will. Even then it says 1 out 100 or 2 to 3%. But that doesn't mean everyone will. You would have a greater chance of getting an adverse reaction from ASA then you would with AAS. If you are in the evidence-based medicine area you should know better then use research articles dated 17 years ago. Maybe if it involved bones but not anything use. Just look up something as HTN 17 years ago and read current publications on it. I bet you will see a huge difference. But thinks for the articles anyway.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
AnaSCI SENIOR
 
MaSTa LifTa's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 794
Join Date: Apr 2005
04-03-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1991
These studies are from chronic AAS, but who injects AAS SQ. Even then It says it may be induce. People who smoke may get cancer to but that doesn't mean everyone will. Even then it says 1 out 100 or 2 to 3%. But that doesn't mean everyone will. You would have a greater chance of getting an adverse reaction from ASA then you would with AAS. If you are in the evidence-based medicine area you should know better then use research articles dated 17 years ago. Maybe if it involved bones but not anything use. Just look up something as HTN 17 years ago and read current publications on it. I bet you will see a huge difference. But thinks for the articles anyway.
The study shows immunosuppresion after only 5 days if you would read it. So the chronic effects are only going to be even greater increased immunosupporesion. The comment about 3% is at HRT doses. That means if you take 10x the dose you are likely to get 20-30% who experience immunosuppresion hence my talking about dose-related side effects. As for the HTN guidelines of course they will change. There was a lot of difference between JNC 6 and JNC 7 but that is the difference in treatments. HTN or the side effects of the drugs used to treat HTN doesn't change. This is talking about a side effect of a drug. They don't change. Testosterone 17 years ago is the same as testosterone today.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
mike1991's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 240
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mental Hospital
04-03-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSTa LifTa
The study shows immunosuppresion after only 5 days if you would read it. So the chronic effects are only going to be even greater increased immunosupporesion. The comment about 3% is at HRT doses. That means if you take 10x the dose you are likely to get 20-30% who experience immunosuppresion hence my talking about dose-related side effects. As for the HTN guidelines of course they will change. There was a lot of difference between JNC 6 and JNC 7 but that is the difference in treatments. HTN or the side effects of the drugs used to treat HTN doesn't change. This is talking about a side effect of a drug. They don't change. Testosterone 17 years ago is the same as testosterone today.
My friend this study was done on rats not humans. I would be more acceptable to believe it if it was done on pigs. Seriously I would. Listen if AAS was an immunosuppresion it would not be given to Aids pt who have very weak immune system. The same with cancer and third degree burn patients either. You can believe you want but what I read is not the way you are seeing this. JNC 6 and JNC 7 nothing but guidelines which is just suggestions which a guideline is.
   
Reply With Quote
Wow
Old
  (#14)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jan 2007
Wow - 04-03-2007, 04:08 PM

Wow guys Im glad I sparked a very controversial subject. Sounds like there been some heavy thought on this topic. Anyhoo, just wanted to update my status. I went to an orthopedic specialist today. Aaaand he thought my injury was sports related (lifting too hard) He said the decca and test prop probably did help the injury, but once I started seeing side effects (getting infections) the decca wasnt working to its full potential, and when I started the antibiotics and quit the cycle, the pain was more noticeable. He said there was no way around it. Either stay on the juice and feel less pain, or take the antibiotics and kill the infection. Couldnt do both!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
AnaSCI SENIOR
 
MaSTa LifTa's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 794
Join Date: Apr 2005
04-03-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead95
Wow guys Im glad I sparked a very controversial subject. Sounds like there been some heavy thought on this topic. Anyhoo, just wanted to update my status. I went to an orthopedic specialist today. Aaaand he thought my injury was sports related (lifting too hard) He said the decca and test prop probably did help the injury, but once I started seeing side effects (getting infections) the decca wasnt working to its full potential, and when I started the antibiotics and quit the cycle, the pain was more noticeable. He said there was no way around it. Either stay on the juice and feel less pain, or take the antibiotics and kill the infection. Couldnt do both!
Good choice. You have plenty of cycles ahead of you. Just get completely recovered and then go again. No need to rush things.
   
Reply With Quote
next cycle
Old
  (#16)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 127
Join Date: Jan 2007
next cycle - 04-03-2007, 05:23 PM

How long should I wait until I should start back up again with another cycle? Aaand can anyone help me with my next cycle. I still have a shitload of decca and would like to incorporate that into my next cycle. I know that most of u guys are extremely knowledgeable about this shit. I dont want to use the test prop. Shit hurts too bad aand my body has a hard time getting used to it.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#17)
AnaSCI SENIOR
 
MaSTa LifTa's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 794
Join Date: Apr 2005
04-03-2007, 05:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead95
How long should I wait until I should start back up again with another cycle? Aaand can anyone help me with my next cycle. I still have a shitload of decca and would like to incorporate that into my next cycle. I know that most of u guys are extremely knowledgeable about this shit. I dont want to use the test prop. Shit hurts too bad aand my body has a hard time getting used to it.
I usually take off the same amount of time that I was on my cycle including my PCT. You can just run the deca with some test enanthate for your next cycle, just don't run it alone without test.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 21
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Coast, USA
04-03-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarhead95
How long should I wait until I should start back up again with another cycle? Aaand can anyone help me with my next cycle. I still have a shitload of decca and would like to incorporate that into my next cycle. I know that most of u guys are extremely knowledgeable about this shit. I dont want to use the test prop. Shit hurts too bad aand my body has a hard time getting used to it.
I would wait until you are healed up from the injury. If the test prop has a high ba content, that's one of the culprits for you feeling ill from it. High ba content always gives me a little trouble as well. Hope you heal up soon!

Semper Fi
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#19)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
mike1991's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 240
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mental Hospital
04-03-2007, 10:40 PM

I love the test prop from Bio-lab no pain what so ever if you decided to give it a try. 20 bucks for a 10ml vial and its ******** and they are an approve sponsor. Stay away from Stealth supertest. That shit hurts like a mother fucker and excuse my language. But I have heard people have gotten good results from it.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#20)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 21
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Coast, USA
04-03-2007, 11:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1991
I love the test prop from Bio-lab no pain what so ever if you decided to give it a try. 20 bucks for a 10ml vial and its ******** and they are an approve sponsor. Stay away from Stealth supertest. That shit hurts like a mother fucker and excuse my language. But I have heard people have gotten good results from it.
That's a great deal!! ******** too! Can't beat that
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:39 PM.



Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright © 2003-2019 AnaSCI.org. All rights reserved.