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Hypogonadism After One Cypionate Cycle???
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Question Hypogonadism After One Cypionate Cycle??? - 05-29-2004, 10:40 AM

The following is a request for help and guidance as well as a brief history including all blood work results showing a dramatic reduction in natural testosterone production after only experimenting with a single Testosterone Cypionate cycle. A natural T level so low as to have my doctor diagnose me as having Hypogonadism. Will I ever have a normal Pre-Cycle T-Range again? Have I damaged my endocrine system or receptors? What should I do now?

DOB: 10/59 Height: 5’8”

My general health is excellent except for some slight elevations regarding certain items on my cardiac lipid profiles. I currently take no medications for anything and only take natural substances such as Red Yeast Rice, Policosanol and Niacin for my lipid profile although I limit the Red Yeast.

November 2002
42 Years Old - 155 lbs – 22% body fat
Using ZMA, Tribulus, Chrysin, Muira Puama, not working out but generally fit & slim.
Total Test: 666/714
Free Test: 17.58

March 2003
Stopped natural supplements, went back to gym and lifting Blood work prior to cycle:
Total Test: 598 low and I would like a regular level of 718-827 and a dosing level about 1000-1200
Free Test: 14.59 low and I would like a regular level of 21-26.5 and dosing level that is higher
Estradiol: 43 high and I would like a regular level of 10-30
DHT: 52 high and I would like a regular level of 10-50
DHEA: 495 good and I would like a regular level of 400-560
LH: lab screwed up and didn’t take this test but I would like a regular level of 6.2-9.3 ???
IGF-1: 171 low and I would like a regular level of >350
PSA: 1.3 good and I would like a regular level of <2.6

March 25, 2003
Started a Cyp cycle of 100mg per week, after 5 weeks no significant gain in weight or body fat composition. Increased appetite, increased strength, sexual appetite slightly increased(always rather high so again hard to tell)

April 29, 2003
Week 6 - increased my dose to 200 mg per week(100mg 2x/week) and lengthen cycle from 10 weeks to 12

May 20, 2003
Week 9 - high energy level, good strength, good sex drive, huge appetite. My weight and body fat really wasn’t changing much though and I was monitoring it everyday so I was some still concerned Added Tomoxifen through the end of the 12 week cycle

June 16, 2003
Week 12 – end of Cyp cycle, I had gained about 4 lbs and lost about 2-3 % body fat. 160 lbs - 19.5% body fat My body “looked” better and I was definitely getting comments about “looking” good. I had expected more from the cycle though and was somewhat disappointed especially since I was working out hard and following a significantly modified and improved diet plus I was eating a large amount of food. I was curious what a second cycle would do for me and if it was worth it. I didn’t do any blood work during the 12 week cycle

July 11, 2003
Week 16, my fourth “off cycle” week decided to do a two week cleanup cycle of Clomid and HCG

August 11 & 22, 2003
Could “feel” things were not right, strength, energy and sex drive were low, “state of mind” was not quite right either but work and personal pressures were enormous so it did not overly concern me. I was losing weight.
Total Test 357, lower than ever and Free Test 12.8, my doctor noticed the low testosterone levels and prescribed Androgel for me and wanted to see me get blood work in another month. My DHT level was very high.
I started using the Androgel
Total Test: 357 low and I would like a regular level of 718-827 and a dosing level about 1000-1200
Free Test: 12.8 low and I would like a regular level of 21-26.5 and dosing level that is higher
Estradiol: 38 high and I would like a regular level of 10-30
DHT: 148.2 high and I would like a regular level of 10-50
DHEA: 536 good and I would like a regular level of 400-560
LH: 3.3 low and I would like a regular level of 6.2-9.3 ???
IGF-1: 178 low and I would like a regular level of >350
PSA: lab screwed up and didn’t take this test but I would like a regular level of <2.6

September, 2003
Joined a Martial Arts program training 3 or 4 times per week, not lifting much due to work schedule. I continuedto lose weight and body fat and was looking much thinner.

September 23, 2003
Androlgel for 1 month, feel better but still not quite “right”. I had blood work drawn within 2 hours of my Androgel application: my Testoterone level was elevated to a pretty good range from the Androgel but my other levels are all out of optimal ranges.
Total Test: 705 low and I would like a regular level of 718-827 and a dosing level about 1000-1200
Free Test: 15.6 low and I would like a regular level of 21-26.5 and dosing level that is higher
Estradiol: 31 high and I would like a regular level of 10-30
DHT: 88.4 high and I would like a regular level of 10-50
DHEA: 171 low and I would like a regular level of 400-560
LH: <1 low and I would like a regular level of 6.2-9.3 ???
IGF-1: not done but I would like a regular level of >350
PSA: .6 good and I would like a regular level of <2.6

October 18, 2003
Broke a rib and pulled a hamstring in Martial Arts. Slow recovery unable to work out or do any exercise at all for over 2 months.

December 2003
Stopped taking Androgel and started a few natural substances to see if I could get back to a baseline of where I started before my cycle.

January 5, 2004
Started back in my Martial Arts, still not lifting at all.

January 30, 2004
Testosterone levels are MUCH lower than my normal ranges before I ever did the Cyp cycle, Estradiol and DHT have fallen to good ranges for the first time since I have been monitoring them, DHEA and IGF-1 are starting to rise, LH is low and concerns me.
Total Test: 392 low and I would like a regular level of 718-827 and a dosing level about 1000-1200
Free Test: 7.3 low and I would like a regular level of 21-26.5 and dosing level that is higher
Estradiol: 14 good and I would like a regular level of 10-30
DHT: 38.5 good and I would like a regular level of 10-50
DHEA: 381 low and I would like a regular level of 400-560
LH: 1.8 low and I would like a regular level of 6.2-9.3 ???
IGF-1: 201 low and I would like a regular level of >350
PSA: .9 good and I would like a regular level of <2.6

February 2004
I haven’t been lifting at and I feel the low Testosterone levels. My strength, energy and sex drive are all low. During the last 6 months I continued to lose weight and body fat so I am currently 142 Lbs - 15% body fat. I am particularly concerned at my low LH value. Using ZMA, Tribulus, Chrysin, Muira Puama, IC3, DHEA, Secregogue

May 2004
Using ZMA, Tribulus, Chrysin, Muira Puama, IC3, DHEA, Secregogue
Testosterone levels are MUCH lower than my normal ranges before I ever did the Cyp cycle, Estradiol, DHEA and DHT good IGF-1 lower than ever, LH is low and concerns me

Total Test: 229 very low and I would like a regular level of 718-827 and a dosing level about 1000-1200
Free Test: 7.9 low and I would like a regular level of 21-26.5 and dosing level that is higher
Estradiol: 14 good and I would like a regular level of 10-30
DHT: 35 good and I would like a regular level of 10-50
DHEA: 454 low and I would like a regular level of 400-560
LH: 2.6 low and I would like a regular level of 6.2-9.3 ???
IGF-1: 149 low and I would like a regular level of >350
PSA: .6 good and I would like a regular level of <2.6

Please Help....Thanks

By the way, for any of you that are interested I keep logs of all the products I take and the blood results they produced... pretty interesting actually
   
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05-31-2004, 12:57 AM

ok, i will look into it, for the moment,first thing i spotted was your pct was to late at 4 weeks,should have been 12 days after last shot, secondly the clomid was only for 2 weeks,i would have pushed for 3-4 weeks.but alll that considered i have recovered with no pct.as i said its interesting and i will need to research abit,but i will probably suggest going on another bout of pct.it seems that you are pre destined in the future to have gone onto hrt but the test cycle helped it along.

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06-16-2004, 07:26 PM

Age may be a factor. At 42 most men are starting to get lower levels though not that low.
Most people know that chrysin is a joke and a waste of money.
How much trib do you take?
Cyp cycle...100mg per week is the HRT replacement amount; you shouldn't have gained ANYTHING off of an amount that low and 200 isn't much better. I always recommend 400mg a week minimum for a first cycle for anyone wanting to grow muscle.
PCT...4 weeks after your cycle you should have stayed away from the HCG. That late in the game it would help keep you shut down. HCG should be used throughout the cycle and the last week you are on cycle.
At March 28 you say test is at 598 and you call that low. That is where HRT is usually designed to get you to.
Androgel is designed for HRT and HRT is usually for life, you don't get better, I know cuz I've been on HRT since I was 36/37.
I need to think this over more, these are just my first thoughts.
I forgot, losing weight if it includes muscle weight will lower test levels and growth hormone levels.

Last edited by DragonRider; 06-16-2004 at 07:29 PM.
   
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06-16-2004, 07:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lean_now
DOB: 10/59 Height: 5’8”

My general health is excellent except for some slight elevations regarding certain items on my cardiac lipid profiles. I currently take no medications for anything and only take natural substances such as Red Yeast Rice, Policosanol and Niacin for my lipid profile although I limit the Red Yeast.

Please Help....Thanks

By the way, for any of you that are interested I keep logs of all the products I take and the blood results they produced... pretty interesting actually
Rereading this I just noticed these supplements. Do you take these for high cholesterol?
I have high cholesterol and I've used all of these supplements and they will not lower it enough to safe levels. Also, high cholesterol will induce low test levels and high estradiol levels. High cholesterol can also cause or exacerbate erectile dysfuntion problems.
If that is the case it may be a matter of getting on cholesterol meds to bring back test levels.
I would try another 4 weeks of clomid with high levels of trib first to see if that helps.
   
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