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Anavar-Oxandralone
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Anavar-Oxandralone - 08-11-2004, 02:03 AM

Anavar - Oxandralone




Anavar is not very toxic, not very androgenic, mildly anabolic, and pretty mild on the body’s HPTA. Those are its 4 major points, and I’d like to examine each one a bit further.

Toxicity: Anavar is quite mild on your liver. It’s probably the most mild oral steroid available today. Dosages of up to 80mgs/day are easily tolerated by most men, and most side effects often found with other steroids are not common with ‘var (Proj Inf Perspect. 1997 Nov;(23):19.).

Anabolic/Androgenic properties: Well…it’s a very mild steroid in every sense of the word. It binds reasonably well to the AR, but pretty high doses are still needed and I would never suggest doing less than 20mgs/day. In fact, 20-80mgs are needed to start halting AIDS related wasting (Proj Inf Perspect. 1997 Nov;(23):19.) and recovering weight for burn victims (Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7.) so that’s the range I’d recommend keeping your dosages in concerning this compound. Personally, I’d use 100mgs/day if I were ever going to try this stuff. Any less than this amount (20-100mgs) would be a waste. For women, however, I think 2.5-10mgs/day would suffice. Virilation is not a concern with this compound, as it is only very mildly androgenic (Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.). Water retention is also virtually nil with it.

Now here’s some interesting stuff: Anavar may be what we’d call a “fat-burning steroid”. Ab***inal and visceral fat were both reduced in one study when subjects in the low/normal natural testosterone range used anavar (Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1995 Sep;19(9):614-24). In addition, weight gained with ‘var may be nearly permanent too. It might not be much, but you’ll stand a good chance of keeping most of it. In one study, subjects maintained their weight gain from anavar for at least 6 months after cessation (Burns. 2003 Dec;29(8):793-7.)! Without any Post-Cycle-Therapy!
Anvar is great for strength and cutting purposes, but not for bulking or a lot of weight gain. What I'm saying is that everything you gain will be solid.

So why do you keep such a high proportion of what you gained on ‘var? Well, I think it may be due to it’s relatively light impact on the HPTA, which brings me to my final point; Anavar will not totally shut down your HPTA (unlike test, which will eventually do this even at a 100mg dose, or deca which will do it with a single 100mg dose).
Serum testosterone, SHBG, and LH will be slightly suppressed with low doses of anavar, but less than with other compounds. FSH, IGF1 and GH will not be suppressed and LH will even experience a “rebound” effect when you stop using anavar (Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.). Thus, anavar may be ideal for use in bridges between cycles (at 10-20mgs perhaps), or for cutting/strength cycles at 50-100mgs.

-Originally posted at “BB4 Life”



Anavar ® (oxandrolone)


Quick overview:


Active Life: 8-12 hours
Drug Class: Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (Oral)
Average Dose: Men 20-50 mg/day......Women 5-15 mg/day
Acne: Only in higher doses
Water Retention: Rare
High Blood Pressure: Rare
Liver Toxic: Yes, c17-alfa-alkylated steroid. Due to low doses, toxicity is low to medium
Aromatization: None
DHT Conversion: Low
Decrease HPTA function: Dose depandant

Anavar was the old U.S. brand name for the oral steroid oxandrolone, first produced in 1964 by the drug manufacturer Searle. It was designed as an extremely mild anabolic, one that could even be safely used as a growth stimulant in children. One immediately thinks of the standard worry, "steroids will stunt growth". But it is actually the excess estrogen produced by most steroids that is the culprit, just as it is the reason why women stop growing sooner and have a shorter average stature than men. Oxandrolone will not aromatize, and therefore the anabolic effect of the compound can actually promote linear growth. Women usually tolerate this drug well at low doses, and at one time it was prescribed for the treatment of osteoporosis. As the opinions surrounding steroids began to change in the 1980's, prescriptions for oxandrolone began to drop. Lagging sales probably led Searle to discontinue manufacture in 1989, and it had vanished from U.S. pharmacies until recently. Oxandrolone tablets are again available inside the U.S. by BTG, bearing the new brand name Oxandrin. BTG purchased rights to the drug from Searle and it is now manufactured for the new purpose of treating HIV/AIDS related wasting syndrome.

Anavar is a mild anabolic with low androgenic activity. Its reduced androgenic activity is due to the fact that it is a derivative of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Although one might think that this would make it a more androgenic steroid, it in fact creates a steroid that is less androgenic because it is already "5-alpha reduced". In other words, it lacks the capacity to interact with the 5-alpha reductase enzyme and convert to a more potent "dihydro° form. It is a simple matter of where a steroid is capable of being potentiated in the body, and with oxandrolone we do not have the same potential as testosterone, which is several times more active in androgen responsive tissues compared to muscle tissue due to its conversion to DHT. It essence oxandrolone has a balanced level of potency in both muscle and androgenic target tissues such as the scalp, skin and prostate. This is a similar situation as is noted with Primobolan and Winstrol, which are also derived from dihydrotestosterone yet not known to be very androgenic substances.

This steroid works well for the promotion of strength and duality muscle mass gains, although it's mild nature makes it less than ideal for bulking purposes. Among bodybuilders it is most commonly used during cutting phases of training when water retention is a concern. The standard dosage for men is in the range of 20-50mg per day, a level that should produce noticeable results. It can be further combined with anabolics like Primobolan and Winstrol to elicit a harder, more defined look without added water retention. Such combinations are very popular and can dramatically enhance the show physique. One can also add strong non-aromatizing androgens like Halotestin, Proviron or trenbolone. In this case the androgen really helps to harden up the muscles, while at the same time making conditions more favorable for fat reduction. Some athletes do choose to incorporate oxandrolone into bulking stacks, but usually with standard bulking drugs like testosterone or Dianabol. The usual goal in this instance is an additional gain of strength, as well as more quality look to the androgen bulk. Women who fear the masculinizing effects of many steroids would be quite comfortable using this drug, as this is very rarely seen with low doses. Here a daily dosage of 5mg should illicit considerable growth without the noticeable androgenic side effects of other drugs. Eager females may wish to addition mild anabolics like Winstrol, Primobolan or Durabolin. When combined with such anabolics, the user should notice faster, more pronounced muscle-building effects, but may also increase the likelihood of androgenic buildup.

Studies using low dosages of this compound note minimal interferences with natural testosterone production. Likewise when it is used alone in small amounts there is typically no need for ancillary drugs like Clomid/Nolvadex or HCG. This has a lot to do with the fact that it does not convert to estrogen, which we know has an extremely profound effect on endogenous hormone production. Without estrogen to trigger negative feedback, we seem to note a higher threshold before inhibition is noted. But at higher dosages of course, a suppression of natural testosterone levels will still occur with this drug as with any anabolic/androgenic steroid and therefore require post cycle therapy to restore the HPTA.

Anavar is also a 17alpha alkylated oral steroid, carrying an alteration that will put stress on the liver. It is important to point out however that dispite this alteration oxandrolone is generally very well tolerated. While liver enzyme tests will occasionally show elevated values, actual damage due to this steroid is not usually a problem. Bio-Technology General states that oxandrolone is not as extensively metabolized by the liver as other l7aa orals are; evidenced by the fact that nearly a third of the compound is still intact when excreted in the urine. This may have to do with the understood milder nature of this agent (compared to other l7aa orals) in terms of hepatotoxicity. One study comparing the effects of oxandrolone to other agents including as methyltestosterone, norethandrolone, fluoxymesterone and methAndriol clearly supports this notion. Here it was demonstrated that oxandrolone causes the lowest sulfobromophthalein (BSP; a marker of liver stress) retention among all the alkylated orals tested. 20mg of oxandrolone in fact produced 72% less BSP retention than an equal dosage of fluoxyrnesterone, which is a considerable difference being that they possess the same liver-toxic alteration. With such findings, combined with the fact that athletes rarely report trouble with this drug, most feel comfortable believing it to be much safer to use during longer cycles than most of other orals with this distinction. Although this may very well be true, the chance of liver damage still cannot be excluded, especially with hogher dosages.

At one time oxandrolone was also looked at as a possible drug for those suffering from disorders of high cholesterol or triglycerides. Early studies showed it to be capable of lowering total cholesterol and triglyceride values in certain types of hyperlipidemic patients, which initially this was thought to signify potential for this drug as a hypo-lipid (lipid lowering) agent. With further investigation we find however that while use of this drug can be linked to a lowering of total cholesterol values, it is such that a redistribution in the ratio of good (HDL) to bad (LDL) cholesterol occurs, usually moving values in an unfavorable direction. This would of course negate any positive effect that the drug might have on triglycerides or total cholesterol, and in fact make it a danger in terms of cardiac risk when taken for prolonged periods of time. Today we understand that as a group anabolic/androgenic steroids produce very unfavorable changes in lipid profiles, and are really not useful in disorders of lipid metabolism. As an oral c17 alpha alkylated steroid, oxandrolone is probably even more risky to use than an injectable esterified injectable such as a testosterone or nandrolone in this regard.

-Originally posted at “freakzonline”




Anavar

Unlike most oral steroids, which are Class II steroids giving most of their anabolic effect by means other than the androgen receptor (AR), it seems that oxandrolone probably does have good binding to the AR, and is therefore a Class I steroid, while having little other effect. By itself it is considered to be a weak anabolic.

Partly this is due to its apparent lack of non-AR-mediated activity. This can be corrected of course by stacking with a Class II steroid such as Dianabol, Anadrol®, 4-AD, or nor-4-AD: the latter two steroids require high blood levels which are not obtained by oral use of the powders.
The other part of the reason for this is that bodybuilders make unfortunate and unreasonable comparisons when judging anabolic steroids. If say 8 tablets per day does little, then the drug is pronounced useless or weak by the user. But that is only 20 mg/day, or 140 mg/week. Does 140 mg/week testosterone give much results? No. Few anabolic steroids give dramatic results at that dose. Per milligram the potency is reasonable, but each individual tablet is weak because the dosage is small.
Because of its high price, very few bodybuilders have taken large doses of oxandrolone. There is a single case in the medical literature (Forbes et al.) where it is reported that a competitive athlete self-administered 150 mg oxandrolone per day with remarkable gains. This is of uncertain credibility because unless urinalysis was done to verify that no other steroids were taken, there is no way to be certain that the athlete did not actually take more drugs than he reported. In any case, at current prices, only the quite wealthy could afford such a dose. I personally have tried 150 mg/day and considered it somewhat effective, but not dramatically so, and not a preferred regimen.

Oxandrolone does not aromatize or convert to DHT, and has a longer half life than Dianabol - 8 hours vs. 4 hours. Thus, a moderate dose taken in the morning is largely out of the system by night, yet supplies reasonable levels of androgen during the day and early evening.
Oxandrolone shares the liver toxicity problems common to 17-alkylated steroids. At one time it was thought that it did not, but both clinical and practical experience with Oxandrin has shown that at doses of 40 mg/day and higher, liver toxicity is indeed an issue with prolonged use.

Primobolan, I believe, should be considered a superior compound, offering the same activity at (usually) a lower price and without the alkylated-toxicity issue.

-Bill Roberts.
   
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08-11-2004, 02:10 AM

ANAVAR

An intrinsically weak steroid with a high price-tag and low availability, oxandrolone owes its large popularity due to its safety. In sharp contrast to oxymetholone, oxandrolone is quite generally considered to be the safest of all steroids. Its effects are more than well-documented and have been for a few decades now. The medical community values oxandrolone as a safe alternative for more harmful steroids, which is why it is considered safe for use in children and even in patients suffering hepa-toxicity as the result of alternate steroid use1.
It's most noted medical use has been in the expediting of wound healing2,3 often practically applied to the treatment of burns 4,5,6. But recently its gaining popularity again as a means of keeping weight on HIV-infected patients suffering from wasting due to the immuno-deficiency virus. It was also considered safe for use in prepubescent children with a growth delay7. No major harmful effects were noted from this particular therapy, eventhough one study8 reported that the use of oxandrolone did speed up the onset of puberty in these children. Furthermore oxandrolone has found frequent applications in the treatment of other wasting symptoms for hepatitis and cancer as well as the treatment of osteoporosis in both men and women of all ages.
Oxandrolone was introduced in the year 1964, when Searle came out with the original Anavar. It quickly became the popular drug in the sports crowd for people looking for a safer alternative to the major steroid at the time, Dianabol (methandrostenolone). It remained one of the best-sellers for well over 2 decades until it was indefinitely discontinued in the year 1989. Much to the regret of the recreational bodybuilding and powerlifting community. The prices have remained high for the little stock that remained available. The only brand readily found was oxandrolone SPA, manufactured in Milano, Italy. That is, until 1995 when its use in the treatment of the then vastly spreading immuno-deficiency disease AIDS9 sparked the interest of BTG, a US-based company who came out with Oxandrin. The first widely available oxandrolone product since Anavar production was stopped.
The main reasons for the wide-spread use of oxandrolone in sports is because it is very appealing to female athletes as well as male athletes. It causes little or no virilization properties, demonstrated by its medical uses to treat women. This is rather surprising since oxandrolone does not aromatize either. It's the only steroid that is both safe and convenient without producing excess estrogen. That makes it particularly useful when cutting up for a contest or preventing an increase in body-fat due to estrogenic effects. In fact the main use of oxandrolone to a bodybuilder is in the maintenance of lean mass while reducing body-fat. Oxandrolone itself may not actually reduce body-fat, but it too plays a key role in the process. Like most non-aromatizing compounds it has a repressing effect on the appetite making it easier for the user to control cravings and stay strict with his diet.
Oxandrolone also has little effect on the body's own natural hormone production. The negative feedback was found to be very minor, meaning that during short term use no suppression of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, start of natural testosterone production) was noted. This meant that whatever gains made, as little as they may have been, were very easily maintained post-cycle. So there was also no use for products like Clomid or Nolvadex in conjunction with oxandrolone consumption. The easy to maintain low gains would indicate a low binding to the androgen receptor. While not extremely high, it should actually be noted that it does have quite decent binding to the androgen receptor. But the reason for its mild effects is quite likely the low dose used. Rarely if ever are doses higher than 20 mg used on a daily basis. Either because of convenience or due to the high price. But comparing that the doses of other steroids this is remarkably low. So its only logical the gains and side-effects aren't particularly notable.
Of course a bodybuilder has limited use for a compound that is both a weak androgen in the doses mostly used and doesn't aromatize since no mentionable effect on mass can be produced to satisfy the chemically enhanced athlete. Therefor it is best noted that oxandrolone is most popular with power- and weightlifters to enhance strength without increasing bodyweight. This is valued highly since strength athletes often compete in weight-classes. Oxandrolone does not increase strength through androgenic stimulation, at least not primarily. It stimulates the formation of phosphocreatine, a body compound that can replenish ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) , the main energy currency of the living organism. This gives an incredible increase in short term anaerobic performance, the type needed for explosive action such as sprinting and lifting weight.
For bodybuilders the best results are seen when stacking oxandrolone with a highly androgenic compound. Either during a mass stack with aromatizable products to boost strength a little more, or in conjunction with a non-estrogenic compound. This is most beneficial since it can maintain lean mass, decrease appetite, improve sharpness of the muscle and keep strength levels up without giving increased androgenic risk (acne, prostate hypertrophy, hair loss) when stacked with pure androgens (stanozolol, drostanolone). For those looking for safe maintenance of muscle mass a stack of Anavar with Primobolan is not a bad investment (but a big investment). The common use of oxandrolone is estimated, at 0.125 mg per pound of bodyweight. For men it should be closer to 0.2 mg per pound, for women 0.08 mg per pound per day.
The downsides to oxandrolone are minor. The worst problem by far is the poor availability and high price. But it has to be noted that, eventhough oxandrolone is nowhere near Halotestin or anadrol in hepa-toxicity, it too is a 17-alpha-alkylated substance that can cause liver damage if used for long periods on end. Other common side-effects include headaches, loss of libido, diarrhea and dizziness.
The conclusion to follow these paragraphs is of course that oxandrolone is understandably still a popular and very versatile steroid, much desired by both experienced athletes and novice users because of its many properties. While few will say this is the best or their favorite steroid, you won't find many that will have anything negative to say about it either.

Stacking and Use:

Because of its mild nature and the low doses generally used with oxandrolone there is very little use for secondary compounds like anti-aromatase drugs, estrogen receptor antagonists or blood pressure medication. That in itself may somewhat make up for the high cost and little gains made on it.
In stacks Anavar is sometimes used to increase strength or help maintain it during mass phases. Oxandrolone obviously has very little to add in terms of mass compared to the other substances used to obtain such goals. It fades in comparison to test, Deca, Anadrol, D-bol and such. Nonetheless it is added quite often, perhaps because people assume it will make the overall stack less hazardous, but that's a myth of course. Frankly I would imagine there are better and cheaper things to waste your money on if mass is what you seek.
On a cutting phase oxandrolone makes a good match for 120-140 mcg of clenbuterol daily stacked with something in the nature of Halotestin or Winstrol. The combination improves muscle hardness and striation as well as support mass and strength retention. Experienced users would preferably add testosterone propionate or Equipoise no doubt, rather than Halotestin or Winstrol due to less hazard to the liver associated with those two drugs, especially Halotestin.
Mostly it is used for decent strength gains without gaining too much weight, particularly suited for weight- and powerlifters and martial artists. In that aspect, and in my humble opinion, Winstrol would be a good choice for a stack. 50 mg of Winstrol every day to every other day stacked with 30-40 mg of oxandrolone daily would give a very good result in overall strength enhancement without adding a mentionable amount of weight to the frame.


References


1 Segal S, Cooper J, Bolognia J., Treatment of lipodermatosclerosis with oxandrolone in a patient with stanozolol-induced hepatotoxicity., J Am Acad Dermatol 2000 Sep;43(3):558-9
2 Demling RH., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, enhances the healing of a cutaneous wound in the rat., Wound Repair Regen 2000 Mar-Apr;8(2):97-102
3 Demling RH, Orgill DP., The anticatabolic and wound healing effects of the testosterone analog oxandrolone after severe burn injury., J Crit Care 2000 Mar;15(1):12-7
4 Hart DW, Wolf SE, Ramzy PI, Chinkes DL, Beauford RB, Ferrando AA, Wolfe RR, Herndon DN., Anabolic effects of oxandrolone after severe burn., Ann Surg 2001 Apr;233(4):556-64
5 Demling RH, DeSanti L., The rate of restoration of body weight after burn injury, using the anabolic agent oxandrolone, is not age dependent., Burns 2001 Feb;27(1):46-51
6 Demling RH, DeSanti L., Oxandrolone, an anabolic steroid, significantly increases the rate of weight gain in the recovery phase after major burns., J Trauma 1997 Jul;43(1):47-51
7 Papadimitriou A, Preece MA, Rolland-Cachera MF, Stanhope R., The anabolic steroid oxandrolone increases muscle mass in prepubertal boys with constitutional delay of growth., J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab 2001 Jun;14(6):725-7
8 Doeker B, Muller-Michaels J, Andler W, Induction of early puberty in a boy after treatment with oxandrolone? Horm Res 1998;50(1):46-8
9 James JS., Wasting syndrome: oral oxandrolone re-released in U.S., AIDS Treat News 1995 Dec 22;(no 237):3-4

- Peter Van Mol

*Note, unlike what the author of the above article states, Anavar is currently widely available, and with the large amount of powder suppliers, and underground labs, the price of Anavar is much lower than in the past, and is now quite an inexpensive steroid. Unless, of course, one still would rather use the human grade versions, such as BTG. -Heavy
   
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How effective is anavar?
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How effective is anavar? - 01-24-2005, 12:36 AM

I am currently thinking of using anavar and I've read almost everything on it, including scientific journals, my questions is will I be able to gain any mass or just strenght? I am very concerned about toxicity and not injecting myself, that is why I am considering anavar for about a 6 week cycle? I am only planning to take one cycle and hope to keep most of my gains after I stopped it.

I am currently 172lbs, 6 feet and my body fat is about 6%.

Is primabolan a better choice?

Should it be stacked with anything, remembering that I want the least side effects?

Anyone knows anything about Orbit labs 25mg anavar?

Thanks for any info.

Atlantisboy
   
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01-24-2005, 12:44 AM

I used the Orbit 10mg var...minimal gains, but the var was legit. I truly think anavar is much too weak for a male, unless used in the range of 100mg day...I would not use it again unless I did it at dosages in that range. If I was to do a lower dose, I would use it for at least 12 weeks. This is a very overated steroid.
   
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01-24-2005, 12:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantisboy
I am currently thinking of using anavar and I've read almost everything on it, including scientific journals, my questions is will I be able to gain any mass or just strenght? I am very concerned about toxicity and not injecting myself, that is why I am considering anavar for about a 6 week cycle? I am only planning to take one cycle and hope to keep most of my gains after I stopped it.

I am currently 172lbs, 6 feet and my body fat is about 6%.

Is primabolan a better choice?

Should it be stacked with anything, remembering that I want the least side effects?

Anyone knows anything about Orbit labs 25mg anavar?

Thanks for any info.

Atlantisboy

if you're not wanting to inject, then you are not ready for steroids my friend.....how old are you?
   
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01-24-2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy
I used the Orbit 10mg var...minimal gains, but the var was legit. I truly think anavar is much too weak for a male, unless used in the range of 100mg day...I would not use it again unless I did it at dosages in that range. If I was to do a lower dose, I would use it for at least 12 weeks. This is a very overated steroid.
i will have to disagree with ya heavy about var being over rated. i know quite a few power lifters who rely heavily on this product and it certainly works for them. you are right though about the dosing amounts directly affecting ones strength gains. i am going to do a run at the suggested 100mg daily and see how it affects my gains compared to the normal 50mg dosage i use. when i go below 50mg ed i do experience very limited gains but as soon as i go above that amount the gains increase dramatically. some of my powerlifting friends (i live in the same town as gene rychlak) use up to 150mg ed and see incredible gains while on it. they tend to only use it the last few weeks before a competition though as they dont want their receptors to risk getting saturated before they want to hit their peak strength for a meet.
   
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01-24-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy
I used the Orbit 10mg var...minimal gains, but the var was legit. I truly think anavar is much too weak for a male, unless used in the range of 100mg day...I would not use it again unless I did it at dosages in that range. If I was to do a lower dose, I would use it for at least 12 weeks. This is a very overated steroid.
Just out of curiosity, how many mg per day were you using?
I love the strength I get from var, but I believe it is a steroid that needs a 10 to 12 week minimum run just like EQ to truly see the benefits. I found at my weight, I needed 60mg per day to get the benefits. I would like to go 80mg to 100mg on the next run. That is cost prohibitive for lots of folks.


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01-24-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonRider
Just out of curiosity, how many mg per day were you using?
I love the strength I get from var, but I believe it is a steroid that needs a 10 to 12 week minimum run just like EQ to truly see the benefits. I found at my weight, I needed 60mg per day to get the benefits. I would like to go 80mg to 100mg on the next run. That is cost prohibitive for lots of folks.
oh to have a good source for anavar, that would be nice
   
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01-24-2005, 11:04 PM

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Originally Posted by pincrusher
oh to have a good source for anavar, that would be nice
Nice Indeed.


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01-24-2005, 11:56 PM

Thanks for the info guys, I am currently 29 years old and considered to be a hardgainer, basically staying ripped is no problem for me but gaining muscle and keeping it on is hard especially if I do not train for more then two weks. My goal is to be 185 at 5% body fat, so basically what you guys are getting at is that Anavar is out of the question unless I use high dosages?

What would be the best alternative to anavar?

Thanks
   
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01-25-2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantisboy
Thanks for the info guys, I am currently 29 years old and considered to be a hardgainer, basically staying ripped is no problem for me but gaining muscle and keeping it on is hard especially if I do not train for more then two weks. My goal is to be 185 at 5% body fat, so basically what you guys are getting at is that Anavar is out of the question unless I use high dosages?

What would be the best alternative to anavar?

Thanks
your biggest problem will come from the fact that you dont want to use injectibles. oral products are very hard to keep size gains if taken by themselves. i would also have to say that you will need to eat alot more than you are currently eating. do not worry as much about gaining a little fat if you plan on cycling, instead eat alot more clean foods than you are. your body needs a ton of protein to be able to gain weight. you may be better off using celltek and nitrotec than trying to use an oral steroid.
   
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01-25-2005, 01:24 AM

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Originally Posted by pincrusher
your biggest problem will come from the fact that you dont want to use injectibles. oral products are very hard to keep size gains if taken by themselves. i would also have to say that you will need to eat alot more than you are currently eating. do not worry as much about gaining a little fat if you plan on cycling, instead eat alot more clean foods than you are. your body needs a ton of protein to be able to gain weight. you may be better off using celltek and nitrotec than trying to use an oral steroid.

ditto....do an oral only cycle and you will not be happy with the results...you need a class I steroid (pref. Testosterone) to get the best gains.
   
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01-25-2005, 04:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonRider
Just out of curiosity, how many mg per day were you using?
Bro, I used 40mg for 8 weeks. I gained maybe 2lb lbm in that period from var. Not very cost effective....but I have not ruled out using high doses in the future. One thing I really do like about this drug is 2 things; No aromatization, not very toxic. Other than that, I am just not very impressed by it. I think its price and previous unavailability, before UG labs, gave it a myth of being some high priced, hard to find wonder drug.

Now that its acessible, you dont see nearly as many people giving it much praise. I know you see people posting about var all day, every day, but you never see people coming back after there cycle is done and saying "yeah, I gained alot of lean muscle". Some friends of mine who have used it agree with me aswell. Thats just my 2cents. But I gotta tell you, I would love to see if maybe it does have some awesome potential if used above 80mg day.
   
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01-25-2005, 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy
Bro, I used 40mg for 8 weeks. I gained maybe 2lb lbm in that period from var. Not very cost effective....but I have not ruled out using high doses in the future. One thing I really do like about this drug is 2 things; No aromatization, not very toxic. Other than that, I am just not very impressed by it. I think its price and previous unavailability, before UG labs, gave it a myth of being some high priced, hard to find wonder drug.

Now that its acessible, you dont see nearly as many people giving it much praise. I know you see people posting about var all day, every day, but you never see people coming back after there cycle is done and saying "yeah, I gained alot of lean muscle". Some friends of mine who have used it agree with me aswell. Thats just my 2cents. But I gotta tell you, I would love to see if maybe it does have some awesome potential if used above 80mg day.
i think most of your dissapointment has to do with the thinking that you would gain weight with var. i havent seen it advertises as a weight gaining drug, only as a strength gainer & a product used in cutting cycles to help with fat reduction & during the last few weeks prior to a comtest when a person is on a very restricted diet and needs something to help keep strength up.
if you were hoping it would put LBM on ya it will not, with women maybe a little but not with men. i have only used it as a strength gaining drug or a bridging drug to help maintain size and strength.
this is the reason why powerlifters love it so much. it allows them to see very good strength gains without seeing any weight increases which will enable them to stay in lower weight classes.
here is a post by peter "big cat" van mol on bodybuilding.com describing anavar and its uses. i like his drug profile because i think he gives the best indepth info on each drug.

Characteristics:

AAn intrinsically weak steroid with a high price-tag and low availability, oxandrolone owes its large popularity due to its safety. In sharp contrast to oxymetholone, oxandrolone is quite generally considered to be the safest of all steroids. Its effects are more than well-documented and have been for a few decades now. The medical community values oxandrolone as a safe alternative for more harmful steroids, which is why it is considered safe for use in children and even in patients suffering hepa-toxicity as the result of alternate steroid use1.

It's most noted medical use has been in the expediting of wound healing2,3 often practically applied to the treatment of burns 4,5,6. But recently its gaining popularity again as a means of keeping weight on HIV-infected patients suffering from wasting due to the immuno-deficiency virus. It was also considered safe for use in prepubescent children with a growth delay7. No major harmful effects were noted from this particular therapy, eventhough one study8 reported that the use of oxandrolone did speed up the onset of puberty in these children. Furthermore oxandrolone has found frequent applications in the treatment of other wasting symptoms for hepatitis and cancer as well as the treatment of osteoporosis in both men and women of all ages.

Oxandrolone was introduced in the year 1964, when Searle came out with the original Anavar. It quickly became the popular drug in the sports crowd for people looking for a safer alternative to the major steroid at the time, Dianabol (methandrostenolone). It remained one of the best-sellers for well over 2 decades until it was indefinitely discontinued in the year 1989. Much to the regret of the recreational bodybuilding and powerlifting community. The prices have remained high for the little stock that remained available. The only brand readily found was oxandrolone SPA, manufactured in Milano, Italy. That is, until 1995 when its use in the treatment of the then vastly spreading immuno-deficiency disease AIDS9 sparked the interest of BTG, a US-based company who came out with Oxandrin. The first widely available oxandrolone product since Anavar production was stopped.

The main reasons for the wide-spread use of oxandrolone in sports is because it is very appealing to female athletes as well as male athletes. It causes little or no virilization properties, demonstrated by its medical uses to treat women. This is rather surprising since oxandrolone does not aromatize either. It's the only steroid that is both safe and convenient without producing excess estrogen. That makes it particularly useful when cutting up for a contest or preventing an increase in body-fat due to estrogenic effects. In fact the main use of oxandrolone to a bodybuilder is in the maintenance of lean mass while reducing body-fat. Oxandrolone itself may not actually reduce body-fat, but it too plays a key role in the process. Like most non-aromatizing compounds it has a repressing effect on the appetite making it easier for the user to control cravings and stay strict with his diet.

Oxandrolone also has little effect on the body's own natural hormone production. The negative feedback was found to be very minor, meaning that during short term use no suppression of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH, start of natural testosterone production) was noted. This meant that whatever gains made, as little as they may have been, were very easily maintained post-cycle. So there was also no use for products like Clomid or Nolvadex in conjunction with oxandrolone consumption. The easy to maintain low gains would indicate a low binding to the androgen receptor. While not extremely high, it should actually be noted that it does have quite decent binding to the androgen receptor. But the reason for its mild effects is quite likely the low dose used. Rarely if ever are doses higher than 20 mg used on a daily basis. Either because of convenience or due to the high price. But comparing that the doses of other steroids this is remarkably low. So its only logical the gains and side-effects aren't particularly notable.

Of course a bodybuilder has limited use for a compound that is both a weak androgen in the doses mostly used and doesn't aromatize since no mentionable effect on mass can be produced to satisfy the chemically enhanced athlete. Therefor it is best noted that oxandrolone is most popular with power- and weightlifters to enhance strength without increasing bodyweight. This is valued highly since strength athletes often compete in weight-classes. Oxandrolone does not increase strength through androgenic stimulation, at least not primarily. It stimulates the formation of phosphocreatine, a body compound that can replenish ATP (adenosine tri-phosphate) , the main energy currency of the living organism. This gives an incredible increase in short term anaerobic performance, the type needed for explosive action such as sprinting and lifting weight.

For bodybuilders the best results are seen when stacking oxandrolone with a highly androgenic compound. Either during a mass stack with aromatizable products to boost strength a little more, or in conjunction with a non-estrogenic compound. This is most beneficial since it can maintain lean mass, decrease appetite, improve sharpness of the muscle and keep strength levels up without giving increased androgenic risk (acne, prostate hypertrophy, hair loss) when stacked with pure androgens (stanozolol, drostanolone). For those looking for safe maintenance of muscle mass a stack of Anavar with Primobolan is not a bad investment (but a big investment). The common use of oxandrolone is estimated, at 0.125 mg per pound of bodyweight. For men it should be closer to 0.2 mg per pound, for women 0.08 mg per pound per day.

The downsides to oxandrolone are minor. The worst problem by far is the poor availability and high price. But it has to be noted that, eventhough oxandrolone is nowhere near Halotestin or anadrol in hepa-toxicity, it too is a 17-alpha-alkylated substance that can cause liver damage if used for long periods on end. Other common side-effects include headaches, loss of libido, diarrhea and dizziness.

The conclusion to follow these paragraphs is of course that oxandrolone is understandably still a popular and very versatile steroid, much desired by both experienced athletes and novice users because of its many properties. While few will say this is the best or their favorite steroid, you won't find many that will have anything negative to say about it either.

Stacking and Use:

Because of its mild nature and the low doses generally used with oxandrolone there is very little use for secondary compounds like anti-aromatase drugs, estrogen receptor antagonists or blood pressure medication. That in itself may somewhat make up for the high cost and little gains made on it.

In stacks Anavar is sometimes used to increase strength or help maintain it during mass phases. Oxandrolone obviously has very little to add in terms of mass compared to the other substances used to obtain such goals. It fades in comparison to test, Deca, Anadrol, D-bol and such. Nonetheless it is added quite often, perhaps because people assume it will make the overall stack less hazardous, but that's a myth of course. Frankly I would imagine there are better and cheaper things to waste your money on if mass is what you seek.

On a cutting phase oxandrolone makes a good match for 120-140 mcg of clenbuterol daily stacked with something in the nature of Halotestin or Winstrol. The combination improves muscle hardness and striation as well as support mass and strength retention. Experienced users would preferably add testosterone propionate or Equipoise no doubt, rather than Halotestin or Winstrol due to less hazard to the liver associated with those two drugs, especially Halotestin.

Mostly it is used for decent strength gains without gaining too much weight, particularly suited for weight- and powerlifters and martial artists. In that aspect, and in my humble opinion, Winstrol would be a good choice for a stack. 50 mg of Winstrol every day to every other day stacked with 30-40 mg of oxandrolone daily would give a very good result in overall strength enhancement without adding a mentionable amount of weight to the frame.
   
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01-25-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantisboy
Thanks for the info guys, I am currently 29 years old and considered to be a hardgainer, basically staying ripped is no problem for me but gaining muscle and keeping it on is hard especially if I do not train for more then two weks. My goal is to be 185 at 5% body fat, so basically what you guys are getting at is that Anavar is out of the question unless I use high dosages?

What would be the best alternative to anavar?

Thanks

My suggestion would be to do a cycle of test cypionate or enanthate at 500mg per week for 10 to 12 weeks.


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