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Should I use HCG?
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Should I use HCG? - 12-20-2007, 12:01 PM

I have posted my first cycle earlier this month. With some great advice from you guys here is the final (I"m on week 2):

Week 1-10 Stealth Test Cyp 500mg
Week 1-12 Stealth Equipoise 400mg
Week 4-12 Anavar (20 - 50mgs/day will vary per week)
Week 1-12 Arimidex (.5mg every 72 hours)

PCT

Week 13 Clomid 100mg/day
Week 14-15 Clomid 50mg/day
Week 15-16 Nolvadex 20mg/day

My question is this: Should I get some HCG and use it for PCT? Should I use it during my cycle? Is clomid sufficient?

I have done plenty of research on HCG and Clomid. I just want to know for the above cycle is HCG required? Thanks.

By the way, the Stealth Test Cyp and Equipoise are very smooth.
   
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12-20-2007, 09:21 PM

you can run it DURING cycle every 5 days,, 500iu.
dont use it for PCT.
   
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12-21-2007, 08:25 AM

I'm sorry if these are stupid questions, but:

1. Why not run HCG for PCT? That's pretty much all I've read.

2. Why HCG during Cycle? I'm assuming to keep my natural test levels in check?

3. Is Clomid and Nolva enough for my PCT?

4. Is it Alin as in Alinshop? If so...you guys rock! Where do I post shipping questions?

Thanks for your help.
   
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12-21-2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitezombie
I'm sorry if these are stupid questions, but:

1. Why not run HCG for PCT? That's pretty much all I've read.

2. Why HCG during Cycle? I'm assuming to keep my natural test levels in check?

3. Is Clomid and Nolva enough for my PCT?

4. Is it Alin as in Alinshop? If so...you guys rock! Where do I post shipping questions?

Thanks for your help.
I am the same as you. When I have spoken to people and on all the internet sites I have researched (about 15 of them!). It always says to use HCG for PCT especially when using stronger gear. Through further research it stated that when you use the larger amounts (1500-2000IU every 4th/5th day 3 times) it is best to have about 2 months gap between each time. Thats why I have always thought it would be best to do one course in the middle of a fairly long cycle (like yours) and one for the PCT. But everyone on here says different. And well they know far more than me cos I assume they have probably tried both methods on numerous occasions. But I would like to know everyones reasons for saying 500IU every week or so when on. Is it soley just due to stop them going the size of peanuts as stated in a past thread. Or are there medical/scientific reasons for ensuring more effectiveness with that method.

The same thing is said regarding Nolvadex and Clomid. Most things I have read (written by bodybuilders) say both are good but Nolvadex is far better. That Nolvadex basically does the same thing (near enough) but is far more effective. Whitezombie if you take 20mg of Nolvadex that inceases your test levels by 150%. I have read countless times Clomid is nowhere as effective. But everyone on here seems to recommend clomid all the time. I don't know if that is simply due to when you are first starting and are told about a product you use it it is good so you continue to. Or have most tried both many times and feel clomid is simply better.

Personally I think you are better being safe than sorry. But I have also read HCG can cause many bad effects. I reckon both approaches would do you good. But I would follow the 500IU per week just to help with your test. But the main reason they do it is to stop them shrinking. Plus 500IU is a very small dose so it is just there to give you enough to stop them doing so... shouldn't cause any sides.

In my 1st cycle I done Nolvadex throughout and I was cool. I done 10mg in the morning and 10mg in the evening. But I didn't start till about week 2. I then added provinon which I would completely recommend. Don't do it throughout but start it about week 8. A dosage of 20mg of Nolva and 25mg of Provinon would be fine. Sorry just realized you don't have pro (remembered your 1st thread) and probably just confusing you with the many different ones. Not worth ordering again just for that too. Plus you have armidex which is the best by far (pro is not a anti-estrogen though). The clomid PCT you listed would be ideal and with the 500IU HCG like Alin suggested you will be cool. You have Nolvadex on hand too if you decide to use that for PCT but either would be fine.

Should add provinon is always good to have on hand for a added kick. Just don't do it for too long. When I used it my cock was like steel so I was made up! Pop 25mg for the 1st time and 2 hours later you will know what I mean! Could have used some last night. Been up all night (it's 2pm now) with a lady friend.

Question 4 is a good one! Is it Alin? Cos I am planning to order from there soon. I hear good things.

You should be cool as you are well prepared. But it's good you ask (like me) as PCT is just as important as the actual steroids because if done effectively you will keep most/all your gains.


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12-21-2007, 01:35 PM

Thanks a lot. This is my first cycle so I guess it will be trial by error. We'll see. I'll keep you posted.

I've ordered from Alin. They were great.
   
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12-21-2007, 07:50 PM

HCG shuts you down further up the HPTA than the gear does. If you use it after the cycle (during pct) it will actually shut you down even harder.

HCG is very powerful (more so than clomid), so using it during your cycle, it will keep your testes at a normal size and remembering how to function. Also, it will keep your libido up, wich will go down after some time, regardless of how much test you use.
   
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12-21-2007, 08:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big A
HCG shuts you down further up the HPTA than the gear does. If you use it after the cycle (during pct) it will actually shut you down even harder.

HCG is very powerful (more so than clomid), so using it during your cycle, it will keep your testes at a normal size and remembering how to function. Also, it will keep your libido up, wich will go down after some time, regardless of how much test you use.
I always heard that cos they mention to use the likes of Nolvadex for 3 weeks after the HCG in PCT. Thanks for your info Big A. That has sorted it out for me. Looks like I am gonna be doing my 500IU per week. I will start it after week 3 till the end of the gear. Then go onto my PCT. Thanks again.


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12-22-2007, 10:28 AM

Okay...thanks for the info. So the ultimate questions:

Should I use it during my cycle, which I set out above or should I continue with the cycle and use the clomid and nolva for PCT?
   
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12-22-2007, 08:29 PM

How is that stealth gear treating you? I thought about ordering from them due to the low price. I just want to know it you like the gear so far. I have heard before that it was some thick stuff, but that was only one guy I heard from. So what do you think so far?
   
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12-22-2007, 11:23 PM

To be honest this is my first cycle so I don't have anything to compare it to. I was nervous about injecting Stealth after reading all about the pain associated with some of the Stealth Injectables. I have the Stealth Test Cyp and Equipoise. They are very smooth. It was simple to get it out of the satches and pulled at least 5.5ml from each. I actually just put in another order for summer...all Stealth.

I'm on week 3 and am injecting twice per week (Wed & Sat) each shot is two ml's and I haven't had any problems...no pain, soreness, redness, nothing. It's funny because I actually look forward to my injections now.

Not sure it's really kicked in yet, but my strength has gone up and arms look fuller and harder.

As far as I have read the only Stealth product to be causing a lot of pain is the Test E.

So, in short..I would highly recommend Stealth products and Alinshop!
   
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12-23-2007, 09:09 AM

The following is a portion of an article on PCT. This is the reason why I asked if I should use HCG after my cycle. Also I have a friend who is using Hormone Replacement Therapy prescribed by a Dr in the US and their protocol is to use HCG and Arimidex at the close of a 10 week Test Cyp cycle. Any thoughts?



Finalizing the Program


An ideal post-cycle recovery program will focus on two things really. The first is hitting the testes hard with HCG. It is important, however, not to overuse this drug. Taken for too long, or at too high a dosage, the LH receptor will actually become desensitized to LH(2) , which may further exacerbate our post-cycle problem instead of helping it (this is why I am not in favor of regular HCG use on-cycle). My experience with HCG has led me to feel comfortable using it for a course of three weeks, at a dosage of maybe 5000-7500IU weekly. Often the last week I limit the dose to 2,500IU, unless the cycle has been particularly long or potent. This is timed so at least half of the total administered drug dosage will be given when there is still exogenous steroid in the body. On our graph above this would be at about the 3-week mark after the last injection of testosterone. This will give the testes some time to get back into shape before the baseline is actually hit with T levels. Secondly, Anti-estrogens are used to play a supportive role at the same time, so 20mg of Nolvadex or 50-100mg of Clomid would typically be added (my last article for Mind and Muscle discusses the comparative differences with these two agents). This is to combat the suppressive effects of estrogen as testosterone levels start to go back up, as well as potential side effects (HCG has been shown to increase testicular aromatase activity as well (3)). Although in the first couple of weeks the anti-estrogen does little, it may indeed be helpful when testosterone levels actually start to get back up near normal. To further stimulate the HPTA, and support continuingly high LH levels, the anti-estrogen remains to be used for 2 to 3 weeks after the HCG therapy has been stopped. A sample program, as it would be instituted in our sample post-cycle window, is provided below.



Sample Post-cycle Plan:


Week
Amount

Week 3:
5000IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 4:
5000IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 5:
2500IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 6:
20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 7:
20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 8:
20mg Nolvadex daily
   
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12-23-2007, 04:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitezombie
The following is a portion of an article on PCT. This is the reason why I asked if I should use HCG after my cycle. Also I have a friend who is using Hormone Replacement Therapy prescribed by a Dr in the US and their protocol is to use HCG and Arimidex at the close of a 10 week Test Cyp cycle. Any thoughts?



Finalizing the Program


An ideal post-cycle recovery program will focus on two things really. The first is hitting the testes hard with HCG. It is important, however, not to overuse this drug. Taken for too long, or at too high a dosage, the LH receptor will actually become desensitized to LH(2) , which may further exacerbate our post-cycle problem instead of helping it (this is why I am not in favor of regular HCG use on-cycle). My experience with HCG has led me to feel comfortable using it for a course of three weeks, at a dosage of maybe 5000-7500IU weekly. Often the last week I limit the dose to 2,500IU, unless the cycle has been particularly long or potent. This is timed so at least half of the total administered drug dosage will be given when there is still exogenous steroid in the body. On our graph above this would be at about the 3-week mark after the last injection of testosterone. This will give the testes some time to get back into shape before the baseline is actually hit with T levels. Secondly, Anti-estrogens are used to play a supportive role at the same time, so 20mg of Nolvadex or 50-100mg of Clomid would typically be added (my last article for Mind and Muscle discusses the comparative differences with these two agents). This is to combat the suppressive effects of estrogen as testosterone levels start to go back up, as well as potential side effects (HCG has been shown to increase testicular aromatase activity as well (3)). Although in the first couple of weeks the anti-estrogen does little, it may indeed be helpful when testosterone levels actually start to get back up near normal. To further stimulate the HPTA, and support continuingly high LH levels, the anti-estrogen remains to be used for 2 to 3 weeks after the HCG therapy has been stopped. A sample program, as it would be instituted in our sample post-cycle window, is provided below.



Sample Post-cycle Plan:


Week
Amount

Week 3:
5000IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 4:
5000IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 5:
2500IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 6:
20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 7:
20mg Nolvadex daily

Week 8:
20mg Nolvadex daily
Interesting read. I have read countless similar articles thats why I wondered too. Many on big sites full of other useful information that has been the source of my knowledge when I done my 1st cycle. I have read many times you should not take it weekly and should have sufficient time beween applications (15 day course then wait about 2 months b4 you do other). But many of the people on here are pro bodybuilders that delicate the lives to training and have used gear for many years. Some might not know the medical reasons for each but have experienced most and have made mistakes so know. I think if they are recommending you do weekly and the others are saying for PCT then you gone go down either route and if ddone properly you will be fine. What I can say is even I know the above dosages are far too high. He may have copied and pasted some medical terms to add weight to his suggestions but those dosages sound silly to me. Just reading up on the effects of taking too much HCG. Maybe those dosages are for someone who took over 1000mg test per week and other strong AAS too. Even then it is still too much from what I have read. If your end up doing it for PCT I would recommend 1500-2500IU every 5th day 3 times (15 days). For your cycle I would have it closer the 1500IU mark. Like people have said it is strong stuff and you should be using it as a aid. Then with the Nolvadex or Clomid you will be fine. Just take it 3 weeks after the HCG if you decide to do it. Many love the stuff and many don't use it at all. Dis you get some provinon in your other order? I thought it was really good just to be taken running up to the day the gear was leaving my system and I was getting ready for PCT. Anyway whatever you decide I hope it goes well.

I feel rough today! Went out for my bday last night. As I haven't started the adrol I thought it would be ok for me to drink lots as test and deca don't damage your liver that much. Not gonna be drinking again though for the next 12 weeks or so. I done some coke last night too (1st time in ages). But I will be drink/drug free for the next few months.


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Use code ELVIA1023 to get 5% off your next Synthetek Order.
For a limited time only, if your order is $300 or greater, they throw in a product of YOUR choice absolutely FREE.


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