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Need some info on this cycle...
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Need some info on this cycle... - 01-17-2008, 08:51 PM

Trenbolone Ace- 75mg EOD
Testosterone Propionate - 100mg EOD

I was planning to run this cycle for 6-8 weeks and then go back to natural training. I'm still confused on what would be the best PCT to run at the end of the cycle. I'm only planning to run this cycle once. Might do another cycle if I feel like I really need it. After researching, I feel this would give me the results I wanted. If anyone could give me a good PCT, it would be appreciated. I have read about way too many different PCTs to get a good idea. Is it possible to have a good recovery with just Nolva? Clomid? And is HCG really needed throughout the cycle and after? Thanks.

Last edited by XzyluM; 01-17-2008 at 09:46 PM.
   
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01-17-2008, 10:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by XzyluM
Trenbolone Ace- 75mg EOD
Testosterone Propionate - 100mg EOD

I was planning to run this cycle for 6-8 weeks and then go back to natural training. I'm still confused on what would be the best PCT to run at the end of the cycle. I'm only planning to run this cycle once. Might do another cycle if I feel like I really need it. After researching, I feel this would give me the results I wanted. If anyone could give me a good PCT, it would be appreciated. I have read about way too many different PCTs to get a good idea. Is it possible to have a good recovery with just Nolva? Clomid? And is HCG really needed throughout the cycle and after? Thanks.
I gather this is your first cycle (?). I need to know your stats before I can advice. Plus your cycle history if any. I assume you want this cycle to add alittle weight but cut up (?). I need to know the above before I can advise. If this is your first cycle most would advise not to run tren (although I did on my first cycle). Plus using tren a and test p that is alot of injections. The way you word things it sounds like your first. Let me know the above if you can.


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01-17-2008, 10:58 PM

Yes, this is my first cycle. I'm 23, 6'1" and 225 pounds. I'm aware most don't advise Tren as part of a first cycle. As well as, the side effects and exactly how powerful it is. Some of my friends have been taking it for two months and I like the results, but don't like how they don't really know what they are doing. No cycle or PCT planned and I've read Tren alone shuts down the body extremely hard. They have all told me the only side that they really experience is night sweats. I'm not willing to take that risk, so I want to get my cycle right and definately want my PCT right. Though I have read that EOD injections get old fast, I think I could manage it without too many problems. Since I don't plan on taking more than two cycles if I do happen to take a second cycle. One question though, I've read that you can mix the Tren and Test in the same syringe? If this true and would it be better to mix or inject them seperately? And you are correct, I'm looking to add weight, but mainly cut up. Thanks for the help.
   
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01-17-2008, 11:52 PM

First of all if this is your first cycle those 2 short esters are not good. This might sound strange but I actually enjoy injecting (most of the time). But believe me even I would begin to hate that many injections. You can mix them together but still too many. Cause I inject all over but sometimes if your doing lots of different ones you have to inject the same site again and that is not good. I am sure you will be fine injecting but it is best just to keep it simple in every respect for your first.

I would rec 12 weeks of Test C at 400mg per week. That is only a small amount and I would usually rec 500 but for you aims 400 would be plenty. You could do that in one shot or you could even split it into two 200mg shots (Mon, Thurs). Tren is great for cutting and you could do that if you wanted but most would say avoid as it is your first. I don't rule it out cause I done it for my first cycle with dbol and I was cool (don't do it though). The key for you is diet if you want to cut. The test will put bulk on you and some fatty deposits but if you drink lots of water and have little sodium and lots of protein and some complex carbs you will be cool. I can tell your abit like me and wanna just get in there but really less is more. But a great addition would be to throw in some Anavar at 30mg per day for about 6-8 weeks. The Anavar will give you quality muscle gain without added water retention. There are many things you can incorporate into a cycle to cut up but your best just leaving them for now as it is your first. The two above will give you good gains and quality gains when followed with great PCT. The key for you is diet and training. They are just tools to use to get you there. You will have to get the good bulk first then PCT will harden you up even more. The key to being cut is diet. I wouldn't rec some of the cutting substances just yet but after the cycle if you want to cut even more you can buy a fat stripper product (legal) from a reputable company then just use that (and lots of cardio).

For the above cycle you will need to take 10-20mg per day of Nolvadex throughout your cycle. I would also rec 500IU of HCG every 7 days whilst on. If you do test c you will have to wait 3 weeks after your last shot before you start PCT. PCT should be clomid and Nolvadex together. So your cycle could be-

Week 1-12 = Test Cypionate 400mg per week
Week 1-6/8 = Anavar 30mg per day
Week 1-11 = HCG at 500IU every 7 days
Week 1-15 = Nolvadex at 20mg per day (10mg morning and 10mg evening)

PCT
Week 15-18 = Clomid at 150mg on day 1, 100mg days 2-11, 50mg days 12-21
Week 15-17 = Nolvadex at 20mg per day
Week 18 = Nolvadex at 10mg per day

It is always good to take a liver protector and I like to take a multi-vitamin whilst on too. The good thing about the above is although the combo isn't good for your liver none of the substances are very bad for it. That would be a good first cycle for someone who wants more than just test.

I will give you the name of one of the best things for cutting. But you have to be careful as it is quite strong. Well I say strong I just mean possible sides can be quite annoying and apparant as most products like this effect the nervous system. Sides such as sweats, shaking hands, insomnia and nausea. The usually protocol is to do 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off whilst on a cycle. Whatever you decide I hope it goes well and I hope I have helped you out.


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01-17-2008, 11:56 PM

Forgot to write the cutting one at the bottom- Clenbuterol


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01-18-2008, 12:10 AM

Good that you wanna know cos PCT is fundamental to the success of any cycle. If you do a cycle then Nolvadex and Clomid are a must. You don't really have to start the Nolvadex till after a few weeks. But it should be done throughout the majority of your cycle and during PCT. HCG will stop your balls from going the size of peanuts (it may not happen though) but I feel it also improves the effectivness of other substances. I forgot to mention Proviron which is other great choice for your cycle as it hardens you up. Just google it. It is far from a must but would be a good addition to the proposed cycle. You would only need 25mg of that in conjunction with the 20mg of Nolvadex. Pro can be taken throughout the cycle and added to PCT. I like to start it about week 7 of a 12 week cycle and do it till the end of PCT. Hope it goes well.


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01-18-2008, 12:36 AM

Interesting. So many different cycles that are possible. I haven't ordered any gear yet as I'm still researching and debating. The reason I am wanting to go with the Tren/Test cycle is I've heard so many good things about it and have personally seen just how powerful Tren really is. I'm going to consider the cycle you posted and see which one I feel more confident in. However, say I am albeit on the Tren/Test cycle. A few questions. Is HCG really needed or is it more of a precaution? I know it's a good idea to keep it on hand just in case. It seems after researching, Clomid is pretty much the "go to" in post cycle. I've read that using Clomid and Nolva together is pointless. But then again, I've seen a lot of people choose Nolva over Clomid? I'm sure it's mostly a matter of opinion, but I'll like yours on that topic.

6-8 Week Cycle:

Test: 75mg EOD
Tren: 100mg EOD

PCT:

Day 1: 300mg Clomid
Day 2-10: 100mg Clomid
Day 11-21: 50mg Clomid

The above is not exactly what cycle I am going to run. It's just something I'm considering. I'm going to also take the cycle you posted into consideration. Say I did go with the above cycle, would HCG 500ui every 5-7 be a must or would it be more of a precaution? Or would the Clomid be sufficient? I guess that's just one of my main concerns. I'm aware of the water part. Plan on drinking at least a gallon of water everyday if I do go with Tren. I'm going to research a little more. You can never have enough knowledge. Hopefully, after getting the HCG part and Clomid/Nolva part sorted out, I'll be much closer to choosing a cycle. Thanks.
   
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01-18-2008, 01:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by XzyluM
Interesting. So many different cycles that are possible. I haven't ordered any gear yet as I'm still researching and debating. The reason I am wanting to go with the Tren/Test cycle is I've heard so many good things about it and have personally seen just how powerful Tren really is. I'm going to consider the cycle you posted and see which one I feel more confident in. However, say I am albeit on the Tren/Test cycle. A few questions. Is HCG really needed or is it more of a precaution? I know it's a good idea to keep it on hand just in case. It seems after researching, Clomid is pretty much the "go to" in post cycle. I've read that using Clomid and Nolva together is pointless. But then again, I've seen a lot of people choose Nolva over Clomid? I'm sure it's mostly a matter of opinion, but I'll like yours on that topic.

6-8 Week Cycle:

Test: 75mg EOD
Tren: 100mg EOD

PCT:

Day 1: 300mg Clomid
Day 2-10: 100mg Clomid
Day 11-21: 50mg Clomid

The above is not exactly what cycle I am going to run. It's just something I'm considering. I'm going to also take the cycle you posted into consideration. Say I did go with the above cycle, would HCG 500ui every 5-7 be a must or would it be more of a precaution? Or would the Clomid be sufficient? I guess that's just one of my main concerns. I'm aware of the water part. Plan on drinking at least a gallon of water everyday if I do go with Tren. I'm going to research a little more. You can never have enough knowledge. Hopefully, after getting the HCG part and Clomid/Nolva part sorted out, I'll be much closer to choosing a cycle. Thanks.
The cycle I rec is just one from hundreds you could do. You should be drinking the water anyway. But the test is the main reason for the water retention. Yeah tren is one of the best. But what are your friends taking with the tren? It could be other thing that is causing there change (are they getting big fast). Tren can be used in bulking and cutting cycles with great success. Test/Tren is a great cycle and would work well. You should be doing about 500mg test and about 250mg tren per week. By the way if your gonna do the above cycle you should be doing it for 12 weeks (8 weeks is too short).

Clomid and Nolvadex are very similar and I too have read many things saying Clomid is crap and Nolva so much better. But regardless what cycle you do clomid is a must for PCT. Plus the Nolva too. The dosages you listed above for clomid are the usuallY protocol (300mg on day 1). I would defo do Nolva too at 20mg for PCT. The two of them together is a tried and tested PCT for many years. So like I said Nolva and Clomid are a must!

No then for HCG that is a different story. It is very useful to have but it is not a must. Your nuts might turn into peanuts but they go back to normal after your cycle. It may take a few months but they will go back (if they do go smaller in the first place). You would think it wouldn't bother you butlet me tell you it is a strange feeling walking down the street and just knowing how small they are! HCG also aids other substances too. It is not a must but if your gonna do it just do 500IU every 7 days whilst on. HCG is the most debated subject in regards to usage and dosage. I have researched it more than anyone and many ways are correct just you decide what way you wanna do it. I started this cycle and was in week 4 and hadn;t done any. So I done 500IU per day for 5 days. Then I will wait 4 more weeks and do the same. I will do that 3 times in a 14 week cycle. But if you have yet to start do the 500IU every seven days (just once) each wee of your cycle. Do not do it for HCG. I know all the internest sites rec 2500IU every 4th/5th day for PCT but that will rebound. Just stick to the 500IU every 7 days and you will be sorted. Or if you don't want to just leave it out and see how you get on.



Nolvadex should also be taken during your cycle. If you do the test/tren it is exactly the same. 10mg of Nolvadex would be fine throughout your cycle. It depends upon dosage. But I would never use more than 20mg Nolva per day regardless how much I am taking. But at the same time if I was taking a fairly small dosage I would still do the 20mg. I am doing 700 test c and 400 deca now and do 20mg per day. Armidex is the best anti-estrogen and it sucks up all the estrogen. Thats why you would only need a tiny amount cos you need some estrogen for optimal muscle growth. If you do armidex then 0.25mg per day would be plenty for your proposed dosage. You would only need to do armidex during your cycle but PCT would be the same (nolva and clomid). Personally I think for your cycle 10-20mg of Nolva will be fine. If you pick the short esters then start it at the beginning. If you do the test c and tren e you don't have to really start Nolva till about 3 weeks in (even though it is in your system straightaway).


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01-18-2008, 01:12 AM

Don't do more tren the test! And the 12 week thing is fundamental. 8 is too short. 10 would be ok. But I would look at my proposed cycle if it is your first. Tren can bring many sides like hairloss etc. It's anabolic/androgenic rating is 500. Tests is only 100. So it is 5 times more. Thats why if your prone to hairloss (your mum's side not your dad's like people think) then you should stay away.


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01-18-2008, 01:31 AM

Hair loss is no problem in my family. That's why I am not too worried about the sides of Tren. So if I went with the above cycle. 10mg Nolva during the cycle and 20mg Nolva with the Clomid during PCT would be right? I'm thinking I should get the HCG anyway and not risk having my marbles disappear. 500ui HCG every 7 days during the cycle is sufficient? A few questions about HCG. When you mix the amp, say with 1cc of water, that gives you 10 x 500ui shots correct? I know you can keep it in the fridge for 30 days. After the 30 days, does it expire or do you just have to remove it from the fridge? Thanks, you have been very helpful.
   
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01-18-2008, 01:39 AM

One more thing. Would Test - 10 weeks and Tren - 8 weeks be what you are referring to? I've read that it's not really a good idea to go longer than 8 weeks on Tren. The friends I mentioned above are only on Tren. They are basically doing Tren - 75mg EOD. Pretty careless if you ask me. That's why I research and ask my questions. I guess when they loae their sex drive and their nuts disappear they will reconsider. Even worse, the vials they are getting don't even have a label. Basically, they are listening to one of their friends and believing everything he says. One day soon...
   
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01-18-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by XzyluM
Hair loss is no problem in my family. That's why I am not too worried about the sides of Tren. So if I went with the above cycle. 10mg Nolva during the cycle and 20mg Nolva with the Clomid during PCT would be right? I'm thinking I should get the HCG anyway and not risk having my marbles disappear. 500ui HCG every 7 days during the cycle is sufficient? A few questions about HCG. When you mix the amp, say with 1cc of water, that gives you 10 x 500ui shots correct? I know you can keep it in the fridge for 30 days. After the 30 days, does it expire or do you just have to remove it from the fridge? Thanks, you have been very helpful.
It's 5:30am here! haha I need to be taking my own advice and getting my 8 hours (not gonna happen today). As your dosages are not very high 10mg Nolva during would be good. You know the plan I done for you for the other cycle just follow the protection on there but change the Nolva to 10mg instead of 20mg. It depends what esters you do. I would be doing test c (or sustanon would be good it is a good mix of esters) if I was you. Then you have to start PCT about 3 weeks after your last shot. So do 10mg all the way till you start PCT. Then do 20mg Nolvadex for 2 weeks and in your final week (cause clomid is 21 days too) do 10mg Nolva to finish. See how you go with the 10mg during. I like to do 20mg no matter what I am doing. 20mg of Nolva is suppose to increase testosterone by 158%.

Get the HCG and just do the 500IU each week. It is difficult cause 500IU is just over 1ml when mixed. I have only used it for this cycle and I should have got smaller syringes but I just estimated. I probably done 600-700 IU per injection. HCG will actually last upto a max of 10 weeks. That could be different in different scenarios (I have heard 30 days b4 too). But put it at 50 days and that is 7 weeks (3500IU) and I think a good usage even know you still have 1500IU from a 5000IU ampule. You can get 1500IU ones too so you decide. Do you live at home with your parents? That could be awkward if you do as it has to be stored in the fridge.

To be on the safe side you can just buy 1500IU ampules or the 5000 ones. If you get the 5000 just throw them a way after the time. Oh don't worry about mixingit too cause the amps will come together with the right amounts.

Looks like your sorted now. If you decide to run the test/tren (cause I can tell you are gonna do that one regardless what I say). Then do more test then tren! Say 500mg and about 250mg. Hope it goes well for you. Let me know how it goes and how the tren a is like as I plan to try that in the summer. Are you doing sachets? Sachets are all I do. I have done tren e before and loved it. I did get the famous tren cough and other sides but they were modest and overall a great success. Have fun. I am off to bed as it is nearly 6am!


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01-18-2008, 02:04 AM

With all the information you have added, I might try the Stealth brand out. Have heard a lot of good things about them and it's a lot cheaper as well. Though I heard the Test P can be painful for some reason. I'll keep you updated and let you know how it goes when I start the cycle which seems like it may be beginning of February. It's midnight here, time for me to crash as well. Good thing work has been slow.
   
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01-18-2008, 02:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by XzyluM
One more thing. Would Test - 10 weeks and Tren - 8 weeks be what you are referring to? I've read that it's not really a good idea to go longer than 8 weeks on Tren. The friends I mentioned above are only on Tren. They are basically doing Tren - 75mg EOD. Pretty careless if you ask me. That's why I research and ask my questions. I guess when they loae their sex drive and their nuts disappear they will reconsider. Even worse, the vials they are getting don't even have a label. Basically, they are listening to one of their friends and believing everything he says. One day soon...
Your friends won't be laughing when they can't get an erection! That is so silly doing tren alone. I think if I had to think of one substance that would be the worst possible to do alone it would be tren. I guess they will get what they deserve. Not to mention the fact any gains they get will probably disappear as fast as they attained them. I wrote 12 weeks each didn't I. You can do tren for longer than 8 weeks. If your worried about the time then you could do 8 weeks tren and 10 weeks test. Or even 12 weeks test. If I was to do the cycle I would do 11 weeks tren and 13 weeks test.

I should really add I think you only want to do tren mainly cause your mates are doing it and you see how good it is. But any first timer on any gear would get amazing results. Even if it was your 5th cycle. I strongly warn you against tren. I was fine but all I read about it is how bad it is for first timers. I am the only person I know who thinks I was cool on it though. You should do the cycle I suggested or do something like Equipoise instead. Even winstrol would be better to do. That is one substance the tabs are just as good as the injections (almost). But they are very liver toxic but you should be cool if you have all your stuff (bp etc) checked out by a doc b4 hand. Winny is great for cutting. If you do winny you would do your 12 weeks test c at 400mg and then do 6 weeks of winny in weeks 6-12 (at the end). Goodluck to you. Stay away from the tren though! Try it after your first goes well for you if you want.


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01-18-2008, 02:19 AM

The test c would be the best stealth to do. Test e is suppose to hurt bad. I have just ordered test c stealth. I have been on Eco Oils sachets in the past. I will let you know how the stealth is cos I should be getting them in 2 weeks or so. As it is your first cycle you should stay away from supertest etc (not suppose to be good anyway). I would rec test c at 400mg per week for 12 weeks. You will get great gains from that. Then you can cut it up with good diet and training (cutting drug too if you want).

Stay way from Tren for your first time. If you wanna add something to the test then pick from either Avar, Winny or Eq. They are all good in their own right. Winny is excellent for cutting and you could get the tabs so fewer injections. That way you just have you test c injection and your winny tabs. Simple but vewry effective. Most of the time less is more when it comes to steroids (especially when your new to it).


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01-18-2008, 02:22 AM

So is this cycle the correct way to do it?

Test P - 100mg/EOD - 10 Weeks
Tren A - 75mg/EOD - 8 Weeks
HCG - 500ui E7D
Nolva - 10mg/ED

PCT:

Day 1: 300mg Clomid
Days 2-10: 100mg Clomid
Days 11-21: 50mg Clomid

Week 1-3: 20mg Nolva

I'm not really interested in doing the Tren because my friends are on it. I've researched it for awhile and I'm aware of everything that could and may happen. You're right about everyone not recommending it for a first cycle. Though I had seen many that went against others advice and were happy with the results and few rarely complained of any downsides. Anyways, I'll consider everything over the next week or two and decide which way I'll go. Thanks for the help!

Last edited by XzyluM; 01-18-2008 at 02:29 AM.
   
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01-18-2008, 02:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by XzyluM
So is this cycle the correct way to do it?

Test P - 100mg/EOD - 10 Weeks
Tren A - 75mg/EOD - 8 Weeks
HCG - 500ui E7D
Nolva - 10mg/ED

PCT:

Day 1: 300mg Clomid
Days 2-10: 100mg Clomid
Days 11-21: 50mg Clomid

Week 1-3: 20mg Nolva
I am not rec that cycle. I think you should stay away from tren. But if you want to do it then it's up to you. Atleast you have your protection sorted (I only done Nolva on my first cycle). In week 3 of PCT lower the Nolvadex to 10mg. You don't have to wait 3 weeks till you do PCT now. You can do your last shot then carry on the Nolvadex for about 1 week then start PCT. As it's test p and tren a the 8 and 10 weeks is fine. I would do more personally but that is the min you can do to get good results from test etc.

So for the cycle you want that is the correct way. But I think you would find it much better doing the one I proposed. But it's up to you. Goodluck matey. Let me know how you get on. I am defo crashing now.


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