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Beginner, running cyp and prop . . . thoughts?
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Beginner, running cyp and prop . . . thoughts? - 10-01-2004, 04:05 PM

My first cycle. I'm 27, been lifting since 1998. Started heavy compound movements 2 years ago. Most of my time is spent bulking (I'm always bulking, hehe.) So this is a bulking cycle, tailored to my lifting program, diet, physiology (current physical for year.)

-10 week program, bulking.

-Test cypionate. 200mg/week, one injection on Sundays.
-Test Propionate. 300mg/week, 3 injections (100mg each), on Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
-10mg Nolva on cycle, or use only as needed, intermittently at 20-40mg.
TOTAL: 500mg/week for 10 weeks.

PCT:
-Nolva, 20-40mg ED, taper near end
-Tribulus at 4grams ED

I have yet to finalize the PCT portion.

Thoughts? Comments?
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10-01-2004, 04:08 PM

Im curious as to why you are going to run the prop for 10 weeks? If I were you, I would just run 500mg test cyp throughout, and use 300mg prop divided into 3 injects, for the first 4 weeks. Overall, it looks a very sane and safe cycle.
   
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10-01-2004, 04:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy
Im curious as to why you are going to run the prop for 10 weeks? If I were you, I would just run 500mg test cyp throughout, and use 300mg prop divided into 3 injects, for the first 4 weeks. Overall, it looks a very sane and safe cycle.
I was wondering the same. I would go with Heavy's suggestion too.

As far as PCT, when you say 20-40mg ED, are you talking about throughout the cycle?
PCT with clomid would start 3 weeks after your last injection of a long estered steroid and would be 300mg the first day then 100mg for 10 days followed by 50mg for 10 days. Nolva would be 120mg the first day followed by 40mg for 10 days then 20mg for 10 days.
   
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10-01-2004, 05:54 PM

Interesting, guys. My logic for the cycle is this:

You'll see more gains than you would with 500mgs of cyp only, because after you factor out ester weight, you're getting more test.

It comes out to 500mgs a week, yes, but it will be more comparable to 700mgs of cyp per week.

In a 200mg shot of cypionate, you're not getting 200mgs of testosterone, the cypionate ester makes up a portion of the 200mgs. Same with propionate, only the propionate ester takes up less, hence more testosterone.

Plus:

Cyp release time: 10-14 days.
prop release time: 3-4 days.

Does this make more sense? So what I'm thinking is that the advatnages are twofold: 1.) You're gettng more test, and 2.) Gains come earlier.

Thoughts?
   
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10-01-2004, 09:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy
Im curious as to why you are going to run the prop for 10 weeks? If I were you, I would just run 500mg test cyp throughout, and use 300mg prop divided into 3 injects, for the first 4 weeks. Overall, it looks a very sane and safe cycle.

Good stuff hear, I would take this advice. I don't understand what you mean about the nolv though. Keep it on hand in case of gyno symptoms, otherwise save it for pct.
   
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10-01-2004, 09:59 PM

Yep, I get the idea.

I'll drop the prop after 4 weeks and then just let cyp do its thing.

Thanks again!
   
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10-02-2004, 09:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronAge
In a 200mg shot of cypionate, you're not getting 200mgs of testosterone, the cypionate ester makes up a portion of the 200mgs. Same with propionate, only the propionate ester takes up less, hence more testosterone.

Thoughts?
Im thinking use test suspention instead of the cyp then. test susp= 100% test.
   
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10-02-2004, 01:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuel
Im thinking use test suspention instead of the cyp then. test susp= 100% test.

have fun w/ the frequent injections!!
   
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10-02-2004, 02:31 PM

[QUOTE=IronAge]Interesting, guys. My logic for the cycle is this:

You'll see more gains than you would with 500mgs of cyp only, because after you factor out ester weight, you're getting more test.

It comes out to 500mgs a week, yes, but it will be more comparable to 700mgs of cyp per week.
QUOTE]

True but for a first cycle I promise you that you DON'T need any more than 500mg of cyp. I bet you would make just as good of gains off of 350 or 400mg of cyp. So don't worry too much about this ester difference. People recommend 500mg of cyp because they know that works well. No need to start considering ester weights for a first cycle imo.
   
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10-02-2004, 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuel
Im thinking use test suspention instead of the cyp then. test susp= 100% test.


WHY? Like wolfy said, enjoy. You might need an 18g to inject with.
   
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10-02-2004, 03:30 PM

Even as a newb I know Test Suspension is harsh stuff, and (I beleive it has something to do with it being water-based) you have to be very careful in terms of sterility. You also need to be VERY committed of you want ot inject several times a day.

On average, how much more expensive (if it is more expensive to begin with) is test suspension than oil-based variants?
   
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10-02-2004, 06:43 PM

IronAge,
I see you got similar answers on another board.(******mass.com) Are you convinced yet?
   
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10-03-2004, 01:32 PM

Actaully, yes I am. I talked it over with my trainer this morning, and we considered alot of things, including what I learned from all of you, and we determined that the prop isn't really necessary. 500mg cyp/week, or even a bit more would not only be more cost-effective, but would also be just as effective for gains, when it's all said and done.

So, that's pretty much it. I anticipate starting my cycle within the next 3 weeks.

Thanks again, guys!
   
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10-03-2004, 02:30 PM

Good luck and keep us posted on your results.
   
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10-03-2004, 06:12 PM

Thanks for the support. I will post when I start my cycle.
   
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