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Aromasin for PCT
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Aromasin for PCT - 05-04-2008, 08:37 PM

I wanted to hear your guys opinions on Aromasin for PCT. I have read many articles on this subject and they each have differing opinions. I know a writer of some of these articles is no one to listen to and is mentioned on other forums many times due to his dodgy dealings and shady character. But anyway some of the stuff written is interesting and I wanted to know your opinions. I say this in reference to something like the below PCT regime (I have modified one I have seen elsewhere).

Days 1-32 = Nolvadex at 20mg per day
Days 33-35 = Nolvadex at 10mg per day
Days 1-21 = Aromasin at 20mg per day
Days 1-14= HCG eod at 500IU

I have always considered 3 weeks to be a great PCT length but the more I look at the above the more it makes sense. But of course it will go by feel so if by day 27 as an example I was cool I would stop the last bits of Nolva. All things apart from the nolva are finished by week 3. But I ensure nolva is carried on atleast 1 week after and maybe 2 depending upon recovery progress.

The more I read up on Aromasin the more it looks like a great replacement to clomid. I know they are 2 totally different things but nolva is superior to clomid so that should be part of any PCT regime. I also don't like the estrogenic sides associated with clomid as that is a weak form of estrogen. So I might be trying the above next time round cos I won't know how effective it is till I have tried it. I should add I completely downsized the HCG regime I saw elsewhere because it is strong stuff and I will be doing 500IU every 7 days during. I know every 4 days is best but the 7 will do the job. Again the eod for 2 weeks in not set in stone but I feel that is a nice amount to give me that boost during PCT. I won't do anymore but if I feel I only need 3 or even 2 shots in the week then I will lower from eod.

What you guys think?


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Last edited by Elvia1023; 05-04-2008 at 08:42 PM.
   
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05-12-2008, 09:09 PM

I need to see more real world results before I'm convinced.
Aromasin is wonderful AI but not quite sure for PCT.
   
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05-12-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIN
I need to see more real world results before I'm convinced.
Aromasin is wonderful AI but not quite sure for PCT.
Thanks for replying on this one. It's gonna be a long time away cos my cycle will be fairly long and won't start till Aug/Sept. But I will let you know how it made me feel cause I am gonna try the above for PCT.

My thoughts on it are it is an excellent AI and one of the main points of PCT is to try and quickly regain your natural test levels and to reduce estrogen levels fairly soon. So on that simple logic it should work well if combined with the other things in the PCT regime. I think most on here do the clomid and nolva and that is great. I have hear people list scientific reasons why it is good and bad for PCT. But like I said I will give it a try so I know how it performs in real life as opposed to in journals etc. It's not till a long time away though so I will just post at that time.


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Last edited by Elvia1023; 05-12-2008 at 09:38 PM.
   
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05-13-2008, 06:27 PM

Aromasin is dangerous to the heart when used post cycle - aromatization of testosterone to estrogen within the coronary vessel walls is cardioprotective, not circulating levels of estrogen. Post cycle there is little testosterone and therefore, little estrogen. Thus, the use of an AI will accelerate the development of atherosclerosis. Here are two very interesting reads below:

http://circres.ahajournals.org/cgi/c...ull/84/11/1285
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/6/3589

I understand the theory behind using Aromasin and Nolvadex for PCT, but unfortunately the theory is missing some important truths before it is recommended by others.

Nolvadex does increase estrogen in a sense as it is a selective one, but not in a sense that needs controlling. Some people use Nolvadex itself to control estrogen.

Hcg does increase estrogen more than it increases testosterone, but should it really be used post-cycle? Not in my opinion, it makes a great on cycle addition to maintain size and function and a fantastic PRE-post-cycle compound commonly used for 2-3 weeks after one's last long-ester shot - during this time the exogenous steroids are waning down, but are still present in supraphysiological levels and no recovery is going to happen during this time no matter what you take, the hope and goal is that 3 weeks after your last shot exogenous levels are low enough for recovery to start and 3 weeks after is also the time to make sure that you aren't taking anything else that is suppressive in itself like hcg. Think of this - if your body will respond to hcg, then your body will respond to it's own LH and whatnot which will start being produced once exogenous levels are low enough.
   
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05-13-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaMale
Aromasin is dangerous to the heart when used post cycle - aromatization of testosterone to estrogen within the coronary vessel walls is cardioprotective, not circulating levels of estrogen. Post cycle there is little testosterone and therefore, little estrogen. Thus, the use of an AI will accelerate the development of atherosclerosis. Here are two very interesting reads below:

http://circres.ahajournals.org/cgi/c...ull/84/11/1285
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/98/6/3589

I understand the theory behind using Aromasin and Nolvadex for PCT, but unfortunately the theory is missing some important truths before it is recommended by others.

Nolvadex does increase estrogen in a sense as it is a selective one, but not in a sense that needs controlling. Some people use Nolvadex itself to control estrogen.

Hcg does increase estrogen more than it increases testosterone, but should it really be used post-cycle? Not in my opinion, it makes a great on cycle addition to maintain size and function and a fantastic PRE-post-cycle compound commonly used for 2-3 weeks after one's last long-ester shot - during this time the exogenous steroids are waning down, but are still present in supraphysiological levels and no recovery is going to happen during this time no matter what you take, the hope and goal is that 3 weeks after your last shot exogenous levels are low enough for recovery to start and 3 weeks after is also the time to make sure that you aren't taking anything else that is suppressive in itself like hcg. Think of this - if your body will respond to hcg, then your body will respond to it's own LH and whatnot which will start being produced once exogenous levels are low enough.
When I said about people saying bad things about it I was mainly referring to you. Cos I remember you making some good points many months ago on aromasin. In regards to the HCG I was planning to do the first two weeks of the above regime when the exogenous steroids are as you say waning down, but are still present in supraphysiological levels. So a sense 'PCT' doesn't last 5 weeks but really 3 because test from the Sust will still be present when I start the HCG, Nolva etc. Good thing I have till Aug/Sept cos I will keep in mind everything peopel have said. Thats the things about the internet everyone has different opinions and sometimes you just have to be careful. If I do go with shorter cycles anyway then nolva would be sufficient. I just don't like clomid that much but it's onyl 3 weeks I suppose. Thanks for the input alphamale.


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05-13-2008, 06:52 PM

Alpha you got any recommendations for something to be added to nolva for PCT (excluding clomid etc).


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05-13-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023
Alpha you got any recommendations for something to be added to nolva for PCT (excluding clomid etc).
It would depend on what you are trying to do exactly.
Just regain testosterone levels? No, not really with short cycles. How and what you come off with will effect your recovery far greater than any drug and that should be the first thing one looks at in regards to regaining production and homeostatis. There are the newer Serms like Tore that look good, but I would think of them as a replacement to Nolvadex. Dostinex, Proviron and others have their place. With a short 6 weeker or any length for that matter, I'd strongly consider running Proviron for around half of your PCT, it will also help with your estrogen control, but by a safe means to the heart and overall health as well as it's other perks. Is it suppressive, maybe a little, but nothing to effect your pct and even IF it did, you are talking about such a minute amount that 2 weeks of pure PCT would 'cure' it. So I guess would say that I'd recommend adding Proviron to your PCT. By the way you should look at Clomid as being more like HCG rather than Aromasin.
   
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05-13-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaMale
It would depend on what you are trying to do exactly.
Just regain testosterone levels? No, not really with short cycles. How and what you come off with will effect your recovery far greater than any drug and that should be the first thing one looks at in regards to regaining production and homeostatis. There are the newer Serms like Tore that look good, but I would think of them as a replacement to Nolvadex. Dostinex, Proviron and others have their place. With a short 6 weeker or any length for that matter, I'd strongly consider running Proviron for around half of your PCT, it will also help with your estrogen control, but by a safe means to the heart and overall health as well as it's other perks. Is it suppressive, maybe a little, but nothing to effect your pct and even IF it did, you are talking about such a minute amount that 2 weeks of pure PCT would 'cure' it. So I guess would say that I'd recommend adding Proviron to your PCT. By the way you should look at Clomid as being more like HCG rather than Aromasin.
Oh I wasn't comparing clomid to Aromasin or even HCG. Just referred to it because clomid and nolva are the classic PCT and I don't like clomid that much so thats why I asked. Not so much to replace certain characteristics but just to add to nolva.

I have some dostinex and I liked that lots. I love proviron. I plan to always cycle pro at the end of each cycle and a week or so into PCT. Tribulus is a herb that can have uses. I will look into the one you mention (Tore). Thanks


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05-13-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023
Oh I wasn't comparing clomid to Aromasin or even HCG. Just referred to it because clomid and nolva are the classic PCT and I don't like clomid that much so thats why I asked. Not so much to replace certain characteristics but just to add to nolva.

I have some dostinex and I liked that lots. I love proviron. I plan to always cycle pro at the end of each cycle and a week or so into PCT. Tribulus is a herb that can have uses. I will look into the one you mention (Tore). Thanks
Toremifene citrate or Fareston. It also reduces Prolactin if I remember right and is better than Nolvadex at stimulating testosterone production and blocking estrogen in all the wrong places.
   
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05-13-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaMale
Toremifene citrate or Fareston. It also reduces Prolactin if I remember right and is better than Nolvadex at stimulating testosterone production and blocking estrogen in all the wrong places.
Reducing prolactin can only be a good thing! So as it's a serm it would be a replacement for nolva or do you think you could combine the 2 at small doses with great effect. I will research it now. Thanks


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05-16-2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023
Reducing prolactin can only be a good thing! So as it's a serm it would be a replacement for nolva or do you think you could combine the 2 at small doses with great effect. I will research it now. Thanks
I don't see any reason to combine the two, but haven't really studied Tore much either. Let us know what you find out and decide to do.
   
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05-16-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaMale
I don't see any reason to combine the two, but haven't really studied Tore much either. Let us know what you find out and decide to do.
Yeah I will look into it. Obviously if it is simply better than nolva for the reasons we use nolva then it would make sense just doing that. But in other way as nolva defo helps then maybe keep alittle of it in there and add some Tore to the equation. Maybe just 10mg of nolva and well I will go and research the Tore.


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