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Size On - 10-07-2008, 04:07 PM

I've done 3 cycles in past an had great gains, but with time comes experience and knowledge.

I havn't had routines where I've done below 8 reps (mostly) since few years back. However, now I've got the mass I want, and just want to put on the bulk size and grow..not worried about bumping strength up.


I know 3 sets of 10-12 reps should be adding me size but I wanted tips and had few questions.

Does an extra failure set gonna help me grow, or is that pushing into cutting phase?

Are supersets good to do when trying to just put on mean size and bulk?

All advice welcome
   
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10-07-2008, 05:15 PM

Ive always Believed that for Size (mass, Thickness, whatever you want to call it)\
Nothing works better then the basics. Squats, Bench press, Dead Lifts.
These are the bread and butter imo.


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10-07-2008, 06:14 PM

Super sets are more I would say for endurance. Most school of thought is for mass and strength you wanna give more time in between sets. I would say the same goes for failure sets . There good mabey last couple sets of your workout for that pump . But don't belive there a big benifit in the mass area.Not a Pro or a doctor just an opinion.
   
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10-07-2008, 07:37 PM

You hit different muscle fibers when doing low reps/high weight and high reps/lower weight. So a combo of the two is always good. But when I say a combo I mean maybe 90% high weights and 10% the other.

The key to getting big is nutrition and heavy weights with good form. You need to be eating the rights foods (complex carbs, good protein, essential fats) when bulking. Added to that 3/4 days per week in the gym.

But as Raj stated the key to getting big is the fundamentals. So many people don't squat or deadlift these days. Those 2 are the best 2 exercises you can do for size. Do deadlifts on back day and squats on leg day and make sure you have a few days in between the two. Have stability in your routine so the well known movements (bench press etc). But rotate other movements every few weeks.

But yeah the key is to lift heavy. A good method to use is trying to do 4 reps for many exercises. So pick a weight were 4 reps is your max. Then the following session do 5. Go up one till you hit 8. Then back to 4 with a slightly heavier weight. This way your not going up too fast and hit a ceiling... but your increasing you output each week. You should do this method with core exercises such as bench press (what you do every week). You could do that method with squats and deadlifts too. Too many go up too fast and hit their limit and end up staying there.

But all the other methods have their place. So from time to time you should try super sets or other method just to shock your muscles. Your muscles grow when they are exposed to something different (when they are shocked). So the above method of going gradually up is a simple but very effective one. There are 1001 ways but just keep it simple and you can't go wrong.


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Arrow 10-07-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetSwullll
I've done 3 cycles in past an had great gains, but with time comes experience and knowledge.

I havn't had routines where I've done below 8 reps (mostly) since few years back. However, now I've got the mass I want, and just want to put on the bulk size and grow..not worried about bumping strength up.


I know 3 sets of 10-12 reps should be adding me size but I wanted tips and had few questions.

Does an extra failure set gonna help me grow, or is that pushing into cutting phase?

Are supersets good to do when trying to just put on mean size and bulk?

All advice welcome

when gaining mass i do best when resting 2-3 min before sets.
   
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10-08-2008, 09:36 AM

Sorry guys...there was little confusion. I've been all through the Mass phase. I've been rotating between 5 sets of 5, 8-6-4-4, and back to 3 sets of 8 now and then.

But that's mostly working on Mass and strength..i want to GROW! I know the hypertrophy kicks in with higher reps such as 10-12 and that's what I've started to do.

I'm also interested in if 3 sets is enough..maybe squeezing out 8 reps on my third by going little heavier on last set?

Or should i be doing something like a 12-10-8-6 routine to keep strength increasing with bulk(size)?

I am including all the major lifts, always try to!!

**Im looking for size....not strength and I've been doing the low heavy sets for quite some time so looking to really bulk out now

Thanks again tho..some answers were very helpful on teh supersets and stuff but keepem coming!

Last edited by GetSwullll; 10-08-2008 at 09:40 AM.
   
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10-08-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetSwullll
Sorry guys...there was little confusion. I've been all through the Mass phase. I've been rotating between 5 sets of 5, 8-6-4-4, and back to 3 sets of 8 now and then.

But that's mostly working on Mass and strength..i want to GROW! I know the hypertrophy kicks in with higher reps such as 10-12 and that's what I've started to do.

I'm also interested in if 3 sets is enough..maybe squeezing out 8 reps on my third by going little heavier on last set?

Or should i be doing something like a 12-10-8-6 routine to keep strength increasing with bulk(size)?

I am including all the major lifts, always try to!!

**Im looking for size....not strength and I've been doing the low heavy sets for quite some time so looking to really bulk out now

Thanks again tho..some answers were very helpful on teh supersets and stuff but keepem coming!
You have lost me alittle with the difference between mass and growing... I would consider them the same (well sort of).

There is no right answer. Some may do 5 sets and be successful whilst others do 3 sets. It all depends upon what movement your doing. You shouldn't really be using the same method for every exercise.

I would try the system I mentioned as you are increasing each time... or do something similar. Interms of sets it all depends upon what your doing. I am a fan of 5 sets of 8 for bench press. But something like 2 warm up sets then a 8, 6 and 4 can be good.

I would say the best formula for growing would be 8-15 sets per body part. So if your doing 3 movements on a chest day maybe do 4 sets in each movement. The key is to not overtrain and sometimes you see people do loads of sets. It's hard to answer without seeing you in a gym and seeing how you feel/respond to each way. I would just say keep your max to 5 sets for each exercise.

Although you mention you have been rotating between 5 sets of 5, 8-6-4-4, and back to 3 sets of 8 now and then. Then I would say simply try something different. I would try a few warm up sets then a set of 4 at the max you can do for 4 reps. And for the deadlift try and get your 1 rep max up over time. Then after a 8 weeks or so of that totally switch over and lift much lighter for massive reps. I sometimes go up to 50 reps for certain movements. I will do pec deck flyes and warm up slowly. Then go up to a moderate weight and do about 8 or so. Then move the weight down by one and do 9. I take maybe 10 secs rest but as I get lower that turns to maybe 3 secs rest (between sets). Until I am on a tiny weight you could lift with your little finger and am doing about 18 slow reps to finish (it burns). As I am doing so many sets I will only do incline bench press (that comes first) and that is my upper/middle chest done for the day.

I am sorry if that is off mark but I am still not sure what you mean by growing. I was thinking exercises to increase your GH output as much as possible and ran*** stuff like that (whish it is obviously not). But whatever you mean I think most of your effort needs to go into diet and what foods are best (not just lots of protein etc but actual foods and what they do).


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Last edited by Elvia1023; 10-08-2008 at 11:02 AM.
   
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10-08-2008, 04:21 PM

No, you have all helped me out alot, don't get me wrong.

I've been lifting for years , and always read that lower reps (5 or lower specifically) targer certains cells in the muscle to increase mostly strength, and NOT size. Yes, you become somewhat thick, and a more rounded out shape when building mass.

However, I'm looking to have a shapeful BIG size...which I've read that higher reps of the 10-12 reps (sometimes 8) targets hypertrophy within the muscle building it up much faster for more size, and DOES NOT targer as much strength.

So im bumpign all my reps up around the 12 rep range to put on size and get more shape out my body. As of now I have great mass, but im not as shapeful.

My diet is fine, i have that down. I just wanted to know if 3 sets of a 10-12 range was popular or if im still bumping my reps up should i cut it to 3 sets..with a warm up on the larger lifts such as Bench, Squats, DeadLifts, etc...?!?!

Thanks tho...everyone!
   
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10-09-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetSwullll
No, you have all helped me out alot, don't get me wrong.

I've been lifting for years , and always read that lower reps (5 or lower specifically) targer certains cells in the muscle to increase mostly strength, and NOT size. Yes, you become somewhat thick, and a more rounded out shape when building mass.

However, I'm looking to have a shapeful BIG size...which I've read that higher reps of the 10-12 reps (sometimes 8) targets hypertrophy within the muscle building it up much faster for more size, and DOES NOT targer as much strength.

So im bumpign all my reps up around the 12 rep range to put on size and get more shape out my body. As of now I have great mass, but im not as shapeful.

My diet is fine, i have that down. I just wanted to know if 3 sets of a 10-12 range was popular or if im still bumping my reps up should i cut it to 3 sets..with a warm up on the larger lifts such as Bench, Squats, DeadLifts, etc...?!?!

Thanks tho...everyone!
Did you mean 5 sets of 10-12 at the end? Yeah I get what you mean now. I would still say a combo is good. But I am a big fan of 8-12 reps. I would imagine the majority of people on this forum probably use that rep range most of the time. In regards to changing your sets well that would depend upon what muscle you were working out. If your doing 10-12 reps I would say 3/4 sets. If your doing 8 reps then do 3/4/5 sets. Doing what you say will give you a better shape. I find most people who just do very low reps with heavy weight (solely) tend not to have a good shape to them. That could just be that alot of those guys are the ones who tend to eat loads and thinking the heavier the better always. There the same guys you don't really see doing cardio or working out their legs. Thats just a generalization but you do have alot of them in the gym.

If you want a great shape you have to incorporate everything into your regime... so all the different weight training methods along with effective diet and effective cardio... but you know all of that anyway. But yeah I would defo rec the higher rep numbers.

By the way lifting heavier weights at low reps does make you stronger. There is different types of strong though. Doing higher reps (such as 12) is best for strength endurance. But if you wanted to be as strong as you could be you would have to be doing your max lifts for 1 rep on deadlifts etc etc etc. Thats why a combo is always good as it results in explosive power and/but strength endurance.


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GENOTEC REP
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Last edited by Elvia1023; 10-09-2008 at 10:24 AM.
   
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10-09-2008, 11:37 AM

Thanks...that's def. answer I was looking to get.

I WAS doing three sets of 10-12 reps..but seems i'll tear down and would be even better to bump it to 4 sets and maybe let that last set drop to 8-10 reps depending on failure and muscle part.


thanks everyone and ELVIA!
   
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10-09-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetSwullll
Thanks...that's def. answer I was looking to get.

I WAS doing three sets of 10-12 reps..but seems i'll tear down and would be even better to bump it to 4 sets and maybe let that last set drop to 8-10 reps depending on failure and muscle part.


thanks everyone and ELVIA!
Yeah do it that way. Do 3 to 5 sets depending upon the exercise and weight. For your main sets try and do 8-14. Then for your last one do it so you basically fail on a number between 5-8. Once you lift to complete failure there is no real point going back to fail again on most exercises.

By the way have you looked into swopping sets with attempts. I find that is a great way to do most exercises. I don't wanna throw too many suggestions in cos you have your plan worked out (and it's always best to just have 1 and keep it simplr). But it would be good to look at in the future.

It's basically not having a number in your head. It is hard to do at first cos your so used to counting in your head. So say your doing arm curls then you do 3-5 sets (4 is usually best). Then you pick a weight your gonna get about 12-15 from. Then you have 1 min rest and try again. You don't count and it doesn't matter if you manage 18 cos your just concentrating on the contraction and not a number. This is because a number can be a mental barrier and your automatically telling yourself to give up at that number. Although you can use numbers to your advantage too. The key with this method is picking the correct weight to begin with. You should really aim to be on about 4 to 6 reps in your final attempt.

Anyway good luck with it and let us now how you get on. I have had a break from the gym recently. Looking forward to getting a special delivery soon.


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10-09-2008, 04:32 PM

High protein and a clean Diet is the Key to Looking Muscular.
Thats when youll start to see Muscle separation and get vascular.
If the Size you want is there all you need is a clean Diet, The Right Juice, Good sleep and recovery time.


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