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Cycle Question
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Cycle Question - 11-04-2008, 01:09 PM

I'm 29 yrs old 6ft 225lbs. I've been training for 13 yrs.

I'm planning my winter cycle (my fifth one). I don't want to blow up like I usually do during the winter. I'm shooting for some real lean gains. I've really tightened up my diet and have a great program going now.

I'm planning on running a 12 week cycle with: Test Cyp: 500mg/wk, Deca 400mg/wk with either Anavar @ 40mg/wk (6wks) or Winny 50mg/eod 6(wks).

My question is which is a better fit for this cycle, the Anavar or Winny?

Can I gain lean muscle with Deca or will it just be bloaty mass? I have EQ but I'm saving it for Summer.

Thanks for any help.
   
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11-05-2008, 09:27 AM

In my experience, Deca and test bloats the shit out of me. I would shoot for the winny toward the end of the cycle rather then the anavar. EQ has always been a better choice for me. Maybe adding some nolvadex to the cycle would help the bloat out. Thats if you even experience it. Everyone reacts different.
   
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11-05-2008, 02:59 PM

Thanks. My bloat is about the same with Deca and Eq.

Will increasing my cardio while on Deca and Test help with bloat? Obviously a low sodium diet, too.

Anyone else have any advice for a cycle yielding lean muscle and minimizing bloat and that puffy look?
   
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11-05-2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocraze View Post
I'm 29 yrs old 6ft 225lbs. I've been training for 13 yrs.

I'm planning my winter cycle (my fifth one). I don't want to blow up like I usually do during the winter. I'm shooting for some real lean gains. I've really tightened up my diet and have a great program going now.

I'm planning on running a 12 week cycle with: Test Cyp: 500mg/wk, Deca 400mg/wk with either Anavar @ 40mg/wk (6wks) or Winny 50mg/eod 6(wks).

My question is which is a better fit for this cycle, the Anavar or Winny?

Can I gain lean muscle with Deca or will it just be bloaty mass? I have EQ but I'm saving it for Summer.

Thanks for any help.
In a rush now but that proposed cycle sounds decent. Test and Deca should bloat you lots. I would pick Eq over Deca if you want leaner gains. But the test and deca should be fine. Don't take nolva during as its really bad to do so with any nandrolone. Nandrolone (deca) directly acts on the progesterone receptor without changing chemically. If you take nolva during this will just increase the rate. Although the binding rate is fairly low (about 20% of the hormone). I would go with proviron during as this really helps harden you up and sort of acts as a estrogen blocker and it's really cheap too.

You want to bulk but not go huge like with dbol/adrol. Then your 500mg is a nice amount. Stick with that and I would personally then pick from one of the following... mast, primo, eq or tren. But like I said deca should be ok... I would do about 350mg per week.

Liek Static I would pick winny over the avar for your cycle. I would keep avar for your cutting cycle. I would do the winny in the final 4-6 weeks of your cycle at about 40-50mg per day. If you go with avar I would do 40-60mg and for maybe 6-8 weeks.

Looks like your moreorless sorted. Just do like you say and keep the diet tight. I would try and drink lots of water throughout the day too. Maybe try some chinese (green or white) tea. Actually a super tip is dandelion root tea (just order online). That acts as a natural diuretic and should lower water retention when on cycle. Have 3 cups per day.

If I hadn't ordered and was doing a cycle with your exacts goals I would do-

Weeks 1-12= Test E at 500mg per week
Weeks 1-12= Mast E at 400mg per week
Weeks 1-4= Tbol at 50mg per day
Weeks 8-12= Winny at 50mg per day

Start PCT week 14

I would always have the test and mast combo (or tren etc). There are many varations I would do for the oral such as

- just doing tbol for 6 weeks at the start
- just doing winny for 6 weeks at the end
-doing avar for the first 8 weeks
etc

There just a few ideas cos you have 1001 possible good cycles but I hope they help. Keep us posted what you decide to do.


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11-06-2008, 12:19 PM

I have the Test Cyp so I'm going to run that 500mg/wk. I'm gonna use the Winny for the last 5 weeks at 50mg/eod.

I'm deciding whether I should run it with Primobolan Depot or Masteron. Are these better than EQ? Again I'm shooting for lean muscle without the bloat. I'm not looking for a cutting cycle that I'm saving for spring.

Any suggestions? Are there much differences btwn Primo and Mast?
   
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11-06-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocraze View Post
I have the Test Cyp so I'm going to run that 500mg/wk. I'm gonna use the Winny for the last 5 weeks at 50mg/eod.

I'm deciding whether I should run it with Primobolan Depot or Masteron. Are these better than EQ? Again I'm shooting for lean muscle without the bloat. I'm not looking for a cutting cycle that I'm saving for spring.

Any suggestions? Are there much differences btwn Primo and Mast?
The best compound to use for your aim (by a mile) is tren. But maybe your best leaving that for a cycle or two.

It's hard to comment cos everyone reacts different to all the compounds. But yeah for your aim a choice of mast, eq or primo would be great compliments to your test and winny.

I would go with mast. That actually acts as a mild anti-estrogen so is a very useful characteristic. That will therefore help with bloat etc. Winny does too in certain ways so your good to go with mast and winny combined with test. The three in a cycle should give you some bulk with hard lean gains in the end. You have to make sure your mast is at 400mg per week though cos that is when it is effective for your aims.

If it was me I would throw in some proviron during to help matters. That will harden you up more and sort of act as an estrogen blocker too. I would do 50mg per day split am/pm (by the way it is not really liver toxic so very appealing).


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11-06-2008, 02:55 PM

I should add Primo was suppose to be one of Arnold's favs (perhaps explaining some of its undeserved popularity). But I need to add I have never used it but of the people I know who have they always consider it to be a weak compound compared to others. Especially compared to its price and if your plannign about 400mg. Many say its starts to get good in much higher doses but I imagine that to be true for any compound but its not necessary to have such high doses for the others. I should add that many might say 'weak compound' about masteron but I would go with that from your list. I plan to use it in all my future cycles.


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11-06-2008, 03:19 PM

primo is good at 800mgs a week. At least for me to see anything worth writing home to mom about. Also, I have found no use to use masteron and proviron in the same cycle. Im sure people have but for me there is no point. Masteron is mostly beneficial when your body fat is low. Just my input based on my findings
   
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11-06-2008, 08:25 PM

I just rec Proviron as its a nice little add on to any cycle. It is by no means an essential. Plus it is very cheap. It just adds alittle hardness and that can't be bad. But I agree with the point cos masteron does very similar things. Your also worried about bloat so its other safe method of blocking some estrogen. It can also have a positive effect on the way other compounds work. It is by no means needed but I am always gonna have some on hand for any cycle I do.


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11-06-2008, 08:34 PM

Static makes a great point in saying it is only good for small bf%. If I was you I would hit the cardio hard and have your diet super tight before you started to try it (would only take a few weeks and it will take that for delivery etc). Your not big by any means at 225 and 6ft but I would just make sure your extra cut before starting. I am gonna do that before any cycle but especially if I plan to put on lean muscle.


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11-06-2008, 08:58 PM

Thanks a lot guys. I've been dieting and increased the cardio for the last 2 weeks and don't plan on beginning my cycle for another couple weeks. So that gives me another couple weeks to lower my bf. I'm at 17% now.

I may even hold off on Mast till the Spring. I've heard running it with Test Prop is really good too.

I'm gonna run the Test Cyp, EQ and Winny cycle now and a Test Prop, Mast, Anavar or Winny in the spring.

I'm going to keep the sodium really low and eat very clean this winter. I hate the bloat and having everyone ask me if I'm juicing.

Should I run the EQ higher than the Test Cyp? I've never done it before, but was just wondering if that will have any hardening effects.

Again thanks!
   
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11-07-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocraze View Post
Thanks a lot guys. I've been dieting and increased the cardio for the last 2 weeks and don't plan on beginning my cycle for another couple weeks. So that gives me another couple weeks to lower my bf. I'm at 17% now.

I may even hold off on Mast till the Spring. I've heard running it with Test Prop is really good too.

I'm gonna run the Test Cyp, EQ and Winny cycle now and a Test Prop, Mast, Anavar or Winny in the spring.

I'm going to keep the sodium really low and eat very clean this winter. I hate the bloat and having everyone ask me if I'm juicing.

Should I run the EQ higher than the Test Cyp? I've never done it before, but was just wondering if that will have any hardening effects.

Again thanks!
Looks like you are sorted. Those outlines for your cycles sound good. I would go with avar in the spring.

You can do more Eq if you want to. Most people tend to do about 400-600mg of Eq. So maybe going with 500mg for each would be good. If your worried about appearance I would defo throw in some proviron now (but its not essential by any means). That will just act as a mild anti-e whilst on and harden you up.

I always think it is best to just have protection on hand and only use it if you get certain sides or are unhappy with the amount of water weight. But if you are concerned by the bloat you might want to even look at adex during your cycle (approx 0.5mg per day). Although I am not a fan of taking an AI through entire cycles by adex will help matters significantly.

Eq converts at approx 50% the rate of test. Therefore you can estimate conversion similar to taking 750mg test (if you do 500 of each). Deca is actually less (20%) and people warn against that cos it might be too much water so just something to think about. Eq is great for lean muscle gains though... it increases your red blood cell count which is great (and your appetite too).

So it look slike your good to go. But like I said if it was me I would probably throw in some proviron (but thats just me). I would do it about week 4 so you can see the difference it does to you. Goodluck with your cycle and keep us posted.


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11-07-2008, 02:22 PM

Thanks for your advice. That's why I love this board.

I failed to mention that I have Arimidex on hand and always do. That goes for Nolva, Clomid and HCG.

I read up on the Provironum. I like what I read. I think I'm going to be getting some.

Just to clarify: Did you say that Deca converts to Estrogen less than EQ? I thought it was the other way around. Although I know Deca converts not to estrogen directly but a similar compound.
   
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11-07-2008, 02:34 PM

Almost forgot, is there Mast E available? I only see it in Prop form.
   
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11-07-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocraze View Post
Thanks for your advice. That's why I love this board.

I failed to mention that I have Arimidex on hand and always do. That goes for Nolva, Clomid and HCG.

I read up on the Provironum. I like what I read. I think I'm going to be getting some.

Just to clarify: Did you say that Deca converts to Estrogen less than EQ? I thought it was the other way around. Although I know Deca converts not to estrogen directly but a similar compound.
Yeah Deca doesn't convert to estrogen. It's a strange one cos when combined with test users tend to get loads of water retention. I think it will be due to the different type of conversions.

I have pasted just alittle bit of info below that may interest you about Eq.

Equipoise was actually created while attempting to make a product which would be be a long acting injectable d-bol (Methandrostenolone). What was actually created was a product which, in the real world acts nothing like D-bol, despite it´s similarity to it chemically. A simple way to think of Equipoise, chemically at least, is simply as Dianabol without the 17-alpha-methyl group (that´s the thing which makes D-bol able to be ingested orally and not be destroyed by your liver). However, having had first hand experience with both Equipoise as well as D-bol, I can tell you that the results from each are vastly different.

To make Equipoise, a double bond was added between carbon atoms 1 and 2 of the Steran Nucleus of Testosterone. What does this mean? Well, first of all, since Equipoise was created by one simple modification in the testosterone molecule, you could rightly suspect that it shares many similarities with it. Equipoise is just as anabolic as testosterone (as you can tell by its anabolic rating above), but only half as androgenic. Those ratings can be quite deceiving though, as I don´t know anyone who would claim that you can gain as much weight on Equipoise as you can gain on an equal amount of testosterone (even though strength gains from the two compounds are very similar).

It´s not very common to compare Equipoise to testosterone; however& a far more common comparison is between Equipoise and Deca. I suspect this is because when Dan Duchaine introduced this compound to the steroid using community, he made an immediate comparison to Deca, speculating that it would act similarly to Deca but like a much stronger version of it. Equipoise doesn´t actually act much like deca at all; Deca is actually a progestin and a 19-nor derived steroid whereas Equipoise is more closely related to testosterone (being only one double bond differ rent). Duchaine later rescinded his original statement on Equipoise and said that it was disappointing as a mass builder when compared with deca, but a far better drug than for both strength gains and vascularity. Unfortunately, the myth that Equipoise´s action is similar to Deca´s has persisted for nearly 2 decades after he revised his opinion; this is most evident on internet message boards today, where many will advise against including both of them in a cycle because "they act the same way."



By the way the ratio for Eq is 100/50 (anabolic/androgenic)

I think you will have a great cycle if you do what you mentioned.


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11-07-2008, 03:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocraze View Post
Almost forgot, is there Mast E available? I only see it in Prop form.
Mast E is fairly hard to come across in certain circles. But if you check out professionalmuscle (links can be found on this site) and go on some of the sponsors you will find what your looking for. You usually get blends such as BD's Mastabol which is 150mg of mast e and 50mg of the P ester. Thats what I have ordered. Goodluck


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