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Show cycle! Need help
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Show cycle! Need help - 11-18-2008, 06:47 PM

Ok I am considering doing the Jay Cutler Classic in Boston this coming year . I am considering these compounds at the following doses. Now right off the bat I know people are going to tell me to add Test . But for those that have read any of my threads know my concerns of Aromatizing drugs are to great . So I chose these particular compounds due to the fact they are none Aromatizing. Now I have not figured any PCT because I need help with that. I also am not sure how these should be introduced to one another at what points of the cycle should they be taken and finished. I am 5'3" currentlly 163lbs at aprox 12% body fat. I would be competing as a light wieght 155lbs. Now I have been training for about 20 years as a body builder just never competed.Ok with that said here is what Im looking at. I repeat this is what Im looking at and hoping for some people on this forum to help me out by understanding what is neccesary or not to achieve these goals. I do have a good knowledge of diet so thats not an issue.


Anavar :50mg daily 10 weeks

Clen :100mg daily 2 weeks on/2 weeks off 10 weeks total

Primabol:100mg daily when and how long need help

Turinabol:30mg daily when and how long need help

Now Im not sure if Primabol and Tunibol are neccasary or one or the other is enough.It seems to me that mabey Turinabol would be better because of its similarities to Dianabol, though I am not sure. Again need help with Pct at what time and at what dose should be done with a cycle like this. NOW I don't know shit someone with true knowledge may read this and be like this kids an idiot. Thats why I am asking for help. I found these compunds because they seem to me to have the benifits that I need without the sides I don't. All have low liver toxicty but also know that this many orals together can't be great. I hope that I looked at this enough that some don't think Im just lazilly fishing for information and can help me.Thanks
   
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11-18-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac762339 View Post
Ok I am considering doing the Jay Cutler Classic in Boston this coming year . I am considering these compounds at the following doses. Now right off the bat I know people are going to tell me to add Test . But for those that have read any of my threads know my concerns of Aromatizing drugs are to great . So I chose these particular compounds due to the fact they are none Aromatizing. Now I have not figured any PCT because I need help with that. I also am not sure how these should be introduced to one another at what points of the cycle should they be taken and finished. I am 5'3" currentlly 163lbs at aprox 12% body fat. I would be competing as a light wieght 155lbs. Now I have been training for about 20 years as a body builder just never competed.Ok with that said here is what Im looking at. I repeat this is what Im looking at and hoping for some people on this forum to help me out by understanding what is neccesary or not to achieve these goals. I do have a good knowledge of diet so thats not an issue.


Anavar :50mg daily 10 weeks

Clen :100mg daily 2 weeks on/2 weeks off 10 weeks total

Primabol:100mg daily when and how long need help

Turinabol:30mg daily when and how long need help

Now Im not sure if Primabol and Tunibol are neccasary or one or the other is enough.It seems to me that mabey Turinabol would be better because of its similarities to Dianabol, though I am not sure. Again need help with Pct at what time and at what dose should be done with a cycle like this. NOW I don't know shit someone with true knowledge may read this and be like this kids an idiot. Thats why I am asking for help. I found these compunds because they seem to me to have the benifits that I need without the sides I don't. All have low liver toxicty but also know that this many orals together can't be great. I hope that I looked at this enough that some don't think Im just lazilly fishing for information and can help me.Thanks

There are so many ways I can go with this... anyway... 4 orals together is alot. But like you said they (excluding one) are not very liver toxic. I say excluding one because tbol is very liver toxic and the info on some websites is wrong. What brand of primabol do you have?

I am in a rush now but I would say just 10 weeks of anavar with clen 2 on 2 off would do wonders. Maybe even doing a ECA stack at times too (not when on clen). You don't really need to be throwing in all the others. It looks like you have basically thought what things can I take that don't convert much and then added them all to your cycle.

Like I said 10 weeks of anavar with the clen would do great. Most importantly great diet and thats all you really need. If you wanna have some bulk then do the tbol for the first 5/6 weeks at 40mg per day.

Most PCT's should be very similar. But for what you are doing I imagine 3/4 weeks of nolva would be good. Maybe 3 weeks at 20mg and the final week at 10mg. That is all you need. You could throw in some proviron near the end of your cycle too and that will help matters (50mg per day).

For oyu your compounds should be aimed towards helping with toning and hardening. Tbol is the only one in that list that will put some bulk on you.

By the way tbol does suppress you (most do). I took it alone for that very reason... to see what it does. Cos if I had it with test and deca etc I wouldn't really know what exactly it was doing. I was suppressed from it so again sometimes take what you read online with a pinch of salt. I was gonna say but that is just me but I have heard the same about tbol many times. By the way tbol is great and I highly recommend it.

I have extensively researched clen (tried it once) and if you wanna do it throughout your cycle then 2 on 2 off is the best route. If you were just gonna use it once then 3-4 weeks would be best. To keep it simple start on 20mcg then 40, 60, 80, 100, 120. If your not very comfortable at 120mcg you could go back to 100. But the fact your uncomfortable shows it is working (in a way). Anyway you don't need to taper down as it's active life acts as a natural taper. I would taper down alittle if I was doing it just once but with the 2 on 2 off don't bother.

Then on your second 2 weeks you don't need to start on 20 you can start on 40mcg or 60mcg. That is because your body is used to it and you shouldn't get any sides from starting higher. And just go up in 20's till you get to 120mcg and repeat the process.

Hope it helps


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Last edited by Elvia1023; 11-18-2008 at 07:52 PM.
   
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11-18-2008, 07:49 PM

By the way I asked what brand of primobol because there are some crappy prohormones called that (the way you spell it - primabol). But I assume you mean the BD one. That would be 14 50mg tabs per week which would be toxic. Like I said less is more and diet is your main concern. But a combo of avar and tbol would be good with clen mixed in. It all depends upon your exact goals. Do you wanna but alittle bit of bulk on before you cut it completely? If so do something like

Weeks 1-5/6= Tbol at 40-50mg per day
Weeks 1-10= Avar at 40-60mg per day
If it was me I would do clen on weeks 3 and 4, 7 and 8, 10 and 11. Something like that. It is always good to do clen just after your cycle (in your pct).

I think the above would do a good job. Adjust the tbol dosage according to your goals. Even 30mg would do nice things (nothing amazing but decent). I would do 50mg cos when I used it I didn't notice much at the lower dose.

By the way start your PCT 2 days or so after you last tab. Or the day after would be good. Nolva only would be fine (as mentioned above). If it were me I would do 50mg of proviron weeks 7-11 (1 week into pct).

By the way other members I would never usually rec the above but I am just trying to give mac decent advice for what he can (wants) to work with. I always think test should be included in any cycle (unless testing a compound) and injectables are far superior. But like I said the above (with good diet) would give anyone on this forum nice solid results (cutting).


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Last edited by Elvia1023; 11-18-2008 at 08:07 PM.
   
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11-18-2008, 08:09 PM

By the way synthegine would be good with your cycle (liver protector).


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11-18-2008, 08:51 PM

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Originally Posted by elvia1023 View Post
by the way synthegine would be good with your cycle (liver protector).
qft.
   
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11-18-2008, 11:04 PM

Thanks Elvia. The Primo is from a board sponsor ( Balkin). I have not yet got anything because I wanna know what I need first. These were just what I felt would help me get to were I want to go. I don't know that I need much bulk because at 5'3" I naturally look bulky.I would like to go into the show at about 6% body fat.I know how important diet is and am very comfortable with what all my intakes should be.I have done 40mg of Anavar alone and loved it , had great results.So I thought that adding the Primo or Tbol would just put me over the top .The info on the T bol had stated no liver Tox.But I am smart enough to know anything I put in my system has at least some impact So if you would not advise against both of those together my wallet would be just fine with that. I like the sound of the Tbol for the reasons I stated .I don't know that I need bulk, but if it was to help my over all look I would consider it.So what I took from your imput is that Anavar T Bol and Clen would be plenty at the doses you recommended. The dose of the PCT and when is understood."It looks like you have basically thought what things can I take that don't convert much and then added them all to your cycle" did you mean that Im just throwing in anything that doe'snt Aromatize? That is why I brought up both the T and Primo. I also come from the school less is better. I have done heavy cycles in the past and found the lighter cycles much better for keeping gains. I also want to do as little as needed to reach my goals. Its just my competitive side says you only play to win. I went to the show last year and feel with the right plan I could do very well. The light wieght division is small and most in that division more than likelly have'nt put the work in over the years that I have. So please if you have anything to add or any advice at all it would be greatlly appreciated. Thanks man!
   
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11-19-2008, 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Repper View Post
qft.
What does qft mean? I even googled it and a huge list came up so still not in the know.

I just rec synthegine as it is a great product and when on it I feel really good and it is not just placebo. The whites of my eyes are bright etc which can only be a good thing. Eyes can be a great indication to ones health (in ceratin ways).

It is good all year round at a small dose but when taking lots of orals it is extra good.


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11-19-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac762339 View Post
Thanks Elvia. The Primo is from a board sponsor ( Balkin). I have not yet got anything because I wanna know what I need first. These were just what I felt would help me get to were I want to go. I don't know that I need much bulk because at 5'3" I naturally look bulky.I would like to go into the show at about 6% body fat.I know how important diet is and am very comfortable with what all my intakes should be.I have done 40mg of Anavar alone and loved it , had great results.So I thought that adding the Primo or Tbol would just put me over the top .The info on the T bol had stated no liver Tox.But I am smart enough to know anything I put in my system has at least some impact So if you would not advise against both of those together my wallet would be just fine with that. I like the sound of the Tbol for the reasons I stated .I don't know that I need bulk, but if it was to help my over all look I would consider it.So what I took from your imput is that Anavar T Bol and Clen would be plenty at the doses you recommended. The dose of the PCT and when is understood."It looks like you have basically thought what things can I take that don't convert much and then added them all to your cycle" did you mean that Im just throwing in anything that doe'snt Aromatize? That is why I brought up both the T and Primo. I also come from the school less is better. I have done heavy cycles in the past and found the lighter cycles much better for keeping gains. I also want to do as little as needed to reach my goals. Its just my competitive side says you only play to win. I went to the show last year and feel with the right plan I could do very well. The light wieght division is small and most in that division more than likelly have'nt put the work in over the years that I have. So please if you have anything to add or any advice at all it would be greatlly appreciated. Thanks man!
How long you got till the show? It is always advisable to add some quality bulk before you cut away at it. But as you say your always in good shape and you need to lower your weight slightly then that may not be needed. It all depends upon timing really and where you are at presently.

When I said convert much I did mean just throwing in anything that doesn't Aromatize. And your right about lighter cycle being better for keeping gains. I mean lighter in the sense of compounds that don't give you so much water weight. Obviously because most gains are more solid and sustainable. Whereas if your putting on 15 pounds in your first week on adrol that is simply water.

If you do the tbol and avar and keep your diet tight your increase will be minimal. Probably working out at 1 pound per week. With educated effort you will hopefully put on about 6-10 pounds of solid muscle by the end of the cycle. But at the same time you will be stripping away at your fat levels. You will obviously have to drop weight over the many months till the comp. But you will find when you are at a lower weight than you are now you will still appear slightly larger (compared to now) because of the quality muscle you have gained. And by targeting certain body parts. It's like I look a similar size to what I did 6 months ago and I am almost 20 pounds lighter. Simply because I put on solid muscle in the right places. The right places for me were my lats and delts. But for you at 5ft 3 I imagine your lats are probably one of your best areas.

Oh and yes tbol is liver toxic. You can compare it to dbol. It is often compared to avar and I think that is the main reason it is deemed by many to not be very liver toxic. Actually, though, tbol is simply dbol with a 4-chloro alteration. That is why usage should be limited to 6 weeks max and it shouldn't be treated like avar. I think you will love the stuff but from my experience you have to give it a few weeks before it starts it's magic (dbol is more like a day ).

It sounds like you know your stuff so I am sure what you decide will turn out good. Have you planned out a diet yet for the run up to the show? I am gonna post my cutting diet in the next few days. I don't want to compete but wanna test myself and see where I can get to just to see if I can and I wanna see how toned I can get. Check it out if you want I will be listing a 12 week program.


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Last edited by Elvia1023; 11-19-2008 at 12:24 PM.
   
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11-19-2008, 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023 View Post
What does qft mean? I even googled it and a huge list came up so still not in the know.

I just rec synthegine as it is a great product and when on it I feel really good and it is not just placebo. The whites of my eyes are bright etc which can only be a good thing. Eyes can be a great indication to ones health (in ceratin ways).

It is good all year round at a small dose but when taking lots of orals it is extra good.
Quoted For Truth man.

   
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11-19-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grim Repper View Post
Quoted For Truth man.

You learn something new everyday!


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11-19-2008, 07:21 PM

Hey Elvia shows not till april so have ample time to put it together.My diet was givin to me by a dietion who competes. I am in the middle of moving so its packed away. But it is basiclly this.
Mon-wensday
carbs:125grams
protien:225grams
fat:40grams
Thurs
carbs:175grams
protien:225grams
fats:40grams
Fri-sat
same as monday-wensday
Sunday
carbs:250grams
protien:225grams
Fats:40grams
These will be adjusted as I get closer and depending on my progress or lack there of.
My best body parts will probablly be my traps and quads. My back isn't big although even right now I got the christmas tree going in my lower back. One thing I noticed in the light wieght division is no legs , so I feel pretty good about that. I will for sure check out what you post for a diet even though what is going to work for you at your hieght and weight will be different for me.
   
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11-20-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac762339 View Post
Hey Elvia shows not till april so have ample time to put it together.My diet was givin to me by a dietion who competes. I am in the middle of moving so its packed away. But it is basiclly this.
Mon-wensday
carbs:125grams
protien:225grams
fat:40grams
Thurs
carbs:175grams
protien:225grams
fats:40grams
Fri-sat
same as monday-wensday
Sunday
carbs:250grams
protien:225grams
Fats:40grams
These will be adjusted as I get closer and depending on my progress or lack there of.
My best body parts will probablly be my traps and quads. My back isn't big although even right now I got the christmas tree going in my lower back. One thing I noticed in the light wieght division is no legs , so I feel pretty good about that. I will for sure check out what you post for a diet even though what is going to work for you at your hieght and weight will be different for me.
So many different approaches work and there is no right answer. And what may work for one person may not for the other. The fact your diet is low in fat is a good point. It can also be good to adjust quantities (carbs etc) in the week. 40G of fat is a nice amount as long as it is essential fats as they are vital for muscle development and overall health (and to be toned). I would be on fish oil tabs if I were you. I assume you are gonna dramatically decrease carbs for the show? Carbs are vital and no carb diets are useless. But to be in a show you would have to lower them significantly (as you know).

I have just posted my cutting diet in the nutrition section. I think you will find it interesting. If you ever want to try it then just adjust it accordingly. protein is always needed but manipulation of fats and carbs are vital to achieve your goals. In addition to supplementation (fat burners) and training methods. Let me know how you get on in your run up to the show. And if you get the time post your current diet as it sounds good.


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