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Test only vs more than 1 compound
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Test only vs more than 1 compound - 12-26-2012, 05:14 PM

Pros and cons?

The only time I ever went over 1g of Test was just for a short time (1 month). I doubled up to 2g and noticed my strength increased remarkably. It was a long time ago and for whatever reason just always used something else with it and stayed moderate on Test since then.

Maybe it's not a bad thing though, instead of always trying to mix in Deca, EQ, Masteron, Dbol or Tren with it.

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12-26-2012, 05:48 PM

the highest ive gone with test is 1300mg, now cruising

next run is 1g of test + 400mg deca week

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12-26-2012, 05:55 PM

Highest I have ever gone was 2g/wk. Had great gains but also had to shower like 3x daily because my skin was much more oily.

I prefer a higher dose of Test versus a lower dose and other compounds added.





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12-26-2012, 06:42 PM

To be honest I have never gone over 1g of test. I havent really noticed any difference in size between 500mg and 1g, so I usually stick to 500mg. Im sure if I went up higher than 1300mg for example there would be a dramatic difference though. I usually love high tren low test but this course I have gone back to basics with just 500 test p/w.


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12-26-2012, 07:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnaSCI View Post
Highest I have ever gone was 2g/wk. Had great gains but also had to shower like 3x daily because my skin was much more oily.

I prefer a higher dose of Test versus a lower dose and other compounds added.
Being older now, not sure the skin would be too much of an issue, might even help. I can't say I haven't had good results using moderate test and another compound (I've usually added tren or eq), but I'm really wondering if just using test isn't a bad way to go, or at least as you said, up it.
   
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12-26-2012, 07:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Incognito1 View Post
To be honest I have never gone over 1g of test. I havent really noticed any difference in size between 500mg and 1g, so I usually stick to 500mg.
I never really did either, so usually stick around 5-700 or so. I can remember though when I jumped from 1g to 2. One night I went in for my usual squat workout, I was doing sets with 315 then, and I easily worked up to 405 with the same reps.

I didn't continue that dosage very long (maybe a month) and my strength went back to where it was. Just reflecting back on it, I'm wondering if maybe I was on to something, at least for me anyway.

Not that I necessarily want to use 2g, but maybe doubling up and dropping other stuff is an idea..
   
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12-26-2012, 08:21 PM

Obviously ones goals and past exerience comes into play. Most of the huge guys I know take between 2-8g test per week. Alot of guys many look upto on the forums (that I have spoken to) usually tell me about 2-3g test then you have an anabolic (deca, eq) at say 1g and maybe an oral or other injectable. Although lots take tren at fairly high doses with the test too (500mg-2g).

I know guys who hate test and others who only run test only (with gh and slin). Everyone is different. Many think test is king and I understand why they say that. Me personally I think on a mg/mg basis test is not great. 1g deca is superior to test for muscle building imo. 1g of most things is superior to test imo. 500mg tren alone will create alot more results than 1g test imo. However I think there should always be a test base in most cycles.

I know alot of guys who never run test... many use masteron for libido advancement. These guys use alot of npp, tren, primo, eq etc. They tend to look extremely lean most of the year. Sure diet dictates everything. But for many without the blockers high test can give a certain look... think hulk hogan... big but smooth.

Again everyone is different. I know some guys who up their test when they want to get leaner... it will do that for most under certain circumstances.

I don't like high test that much. I have recently been on over 1g test per week and it makes me tired, brings about estrogenic sides and overall not the best muscle builder for me. I have lowered my dose to 500mg and 700mg npp and will continue with that for the next 6 weeks or so. I plan to blast on 750mg test and 1.2g deca (maybe even 500mg and 1.5g) for my following blast and to help gain the size I want. I know many hate deca but I love it.

I personally believe low-moderate doses of various compounds can be hugely effective whilst minimizing the potential side effects. I think most who think test is king have never actually done a cycle without it and experimented like some do. I think test is a must for my future cycles but I will keep it at 200-750mg. To give an indication I think great cycles for many (not all) could be something like the following...

1g range- 300mg test, 300 tren and 400mg mast/npp

1.5g range- 400mg test, 400mg tren, 400mg npp and 300mg mast

2g range could be 500mg test, 300g tren, 500mg npp and 700mg primo.

Although I can't argue anyone wanting mass to run high test and lots of slin and gh (gh and slin being key).
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Last edited by Elvia1023; 12-26-2012 at 08:25 PM.
   
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12-26-2012, 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023 View Post
I think test is a must for my future cycles but I will keep it at 200-750mg. To give an indication I think great cycles for many (not all) could be something like the following...

1g range- 300mg test, 300 tren and 400mg mast/npp

1.5g range- 400mg test, 400mg tren, 400mg npp and 300mg mast

2g range could be 500mg test, 300g tren, 500mg npp and 700mg primo.

Although I can't argue anyone wanting mass to run high test and lots of slin and gh (gh and slin being key).
I'd never run test / tren at a 1:1 ratio. They compete for the same sites.


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12-26-2012, 09:21 PM

I'm a 500mg week longer duration type a person due some bp issues but defnately with mast or deca with it. I can't imagine 3-8 grms a week.. I'd need a difibulator for pct.
   
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12-26-2012, 09:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by b12 View Post
I'd never run test / tren at a 1:1 ratio. They compete for the same sites.
It won't make a difference... I know very experienced competitors on large amounts of tren and test together... results usually increase the higher the dose. Of course laws of diminishing returns come into play but that is determined on numerous genetic factors, current lbm, doses used etc. Your logic does not make sense imo. All androgenic mediated steroids compete for the same receptor sites. Competing for receptor sites is not a problem unless you have saturated all receptor sites. However I feel that will never be a problem (won't bore you with why I think that). It especially won't be a problem with someone on 300-400mg test and 300-400mg tren.

Generally I think low test and high tren cycles are amazing. Although I can't take much tren due to anxiety reasons. I think by using trt test and high tren you can minimize alot of possible tren sides. I know guys who couldn't handle approx 1g test and 400mg tren. But on 200mg test and 700mg tren they were fine. Although tren is strong no matter how you take it. There is alot of confusion when it comes to tren... such as thinking it will cause huge increases in prolactin etc. I think control of estrogen is key when on tren. In higher doses the inclusion of prami/caber can be useful too.

There is alot of nonsense (broscience) written on the boards such as your 1/1 ratio. I think alot of that is probably based on the fact tren is stronger and more tren would be best. The estrogen factor I mentioned above is probably key to that too (not competing for receptor sites).

Sorry if I come across as rude but I do think that is complete nonsense.
If it makes you more comfortable doing a different ratio then that is fine but don't think one is cancelling the other out.
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12-26-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironbuilt View Post
I'm a 500mg week longer duration type a person due some bp issues but defnately with mast or deca with it. I can't imagine 3-8 grms a week.. I'd need a difibulator for pct.
Yes I forgot to mention about bp... high test and in 2 months my bp is approx 160/90 High deca never does that to me... 2 months approx 130/70.


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12-26-2012, 09:50 PM

Ive only ran test at 1g by itself once. I get more from 250mg test and 400mg tren e than the 1g test. Test doesn't seem to work as good for me as other compounds.
   
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12-26-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023 View Post
Generally I think low test and high tren cycles are amazing.
one of my favorites for sure with a little mast. i like cruising on 200 test 400 mast and occasionally adding 600 tren to the mix for a couple months.

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12-26-2012, 09:56 PM

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Originally Posted by vpiedu View Post
one of my favorites for sure with a little mast. i like cruising on 200 test 400 mast and occasionally adding 600 tren to the mix for a couple months.

VP
200mg test and 400mg mast is not a cruise

Yeah that sounds like an amazing cycle. I think mast is the best compliment to any cycle ever... especially test and tren. Although I also like to add it with my deca cycles too.


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Lightbulb 12-26-2012, 10:39 PM

Ive used 1gram TEST cycles in the past with great success many times.
   
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12-27-2012, 02:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvia1023 View Post
It won't make a difference... I know very experienced competitors on large amounts of tren and test together... results usually increase the higher the dose. Of course laws of diminishing returns come into play but that is determined on numerous genetic factors, current lbm, doses used etc. Your logic does not make sense imo. All androgenic mediated steroids compete for the same receptor sites. Competing for receptor sites is not a problem unless you have saturated all receptor sites. However I feel that will never be a problem (won't bore you with why I think that). It especially won't be a problem with someone on 300-400mg test and 300-400mg tren.

Generally I think low test and high tren cycles are amazing. Although I can't take much tren due to anxiety reasons. I think by using trt test and high tren you can minimize alot of possible tren sides. I know guys who couldn't handle approx 1g test and 400mg tren. But on 200mg test and 700mg tren they were fine. Although tren is strong no matter how you take it. There is alot of confusion when it comes to tren... such as thinking it will cause huge increases in prolactin etc. I think control of estrogen is key when on tren. In higher doses the inclusion of prami/caber can be useful too.

There is alot of nonsense (broscience) written on the boards such as your 1/1 ratio. I think alot of that is probably based on the fact tren is stronger and more tren would be best. The estrogen factor I mentioned above is probably key to that too (not competing for receptor sites).

Sorry if I come across as rude but I do think that is complete nonsense.
If it makes you more comfortable doing a different ratio then that is fine but don't think one is cancelling the other out.
Tren and test are different AAS with different payouts and effects. If they are similar AAS, with the same effect, then why do 2 different compounds at all?

In a finite system, you will want to maximize the bind of tren over test because More likely you are stacking for the primary traits of tren.

And lack of saturation defeats your imposed ranges of 1g, 1.5g, 2g cycles >because< of the law of diminishing returns.

If you're not looking for the distinguishing effects of tren, which you extol in the second part or your reply, then there is no need for the 2nd or 3rd compounds in your proposed cycles.


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12-27-2012, 02:48 AM

Highest i went was with bodiesbydesigns Supertest525. I ran 6ccs a wk. 3150mgs if im correct. More sides than anythng. I mean....great size n strength but i did better at 750mgs cyp with 400mgs deca. And less sides. Also did better with 500mgs wk test cyp n 40mgs pinkies. So...i think combining is better than high dose test....in my research anyway.



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12-27-2012, 03:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuKiFeR View Post
Highest i went was with bodiesbydesigns Supertest525. I ran 6ccs a wk. 3150mgs if im correct. More sides than anythng. I mean....great size n strength but i did better at 750mgs cyp with 400mgs deca. And less sides. Also did better with 500mgs wk test cyp n 40mgs pinkies. So...i think combining is better than high dose test....in my research anyway.
I agree with combining, but I bet you had a reason for dosing cyp at 750 and deca at 400? 5:3 effective dosing, but why test was higher? This is actually the point I was trying to make earlier with pharmacodynamic interactions versus pharmacokinetic ones. Thanks Lukifer for posting a clear example from your personal experience.


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Last edited by b12; 12-27-2012 at 03:28 AM.
   
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12-27-2012, 09:04 AM

Damn after reading this I'm now really thinking about my up coming cycle. I have no problem handling high doses of different compounds alone or combined with others. I've ran over a gram a week of tren with 100mg of drol a day with 50mgs of dbol as well. I always use a TRT dose of test and rarely go above 250mgs a week of test with my tren, it's just not needed with tren. I've dobe 1200mgs a week of test enanthate as well by itself. But I was planning on doing 200mgs of test ace and 75mgs of test suspension a day for 10 weeks. Now maybe I'll do 100mgs and 75mgs instead. But I've also read on professional muscle that some of the best gains people have gotten are from high test cycles.
   
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12-27-2012, 10:23 AM

I have gone 3 grams a week and really enjoyed the results! I was also running Tren Enan and some Stanz with it at the time though.


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