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First Cycle, Test
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First Cycle, Test - 02-22-2005, 01:46 AM

What's up fellas:
I think that soon I will start my first cycle. I have not yet purchased these drugs, but I feel that I have come up with a good cycle to start with, with the Test drug of choice being interchangable (Cypionate or Enanthanate.)
Anyone who wants to critique this or help me out, go for it, as there are a few things I'm not quite sure on.
Testosterone Enanthanate (or Cypionate): 500mg/week for 10 weeks, injected at least twice a week to keep blood levels stable.
Proviron: 50mg (subject to change, depending)/day- Less water bloat, more free testosterone, less estrogen related side effects. Nolvadex, 20mg/day, on hand, if needed.
PCT: Start HCG after the third weekend of test injections, inject 250iu HCG and continue every weekend (increasing dosage as much as it takes to maintain testicular volume) until test injections are ceased.
Two weeks after the last shot of Test, 40mg/day of nolvadex for two weeks, then cut the dosage down to 20mg/day for the last two weeks. I'm not going to waste money on Clomid when Nolva is as effective and cheaper.
Subject to change: Proviron, I could nix on it and and simply use 20mg/day nolvadex, as needed, until side effects subside. It is an oral alkylated steroid, could be hard on the liver after a 10-week cycle.
Ten weeks is a fairly long cycle to me, and an 8 week cycle is cheaper and probably close to as effective as a 10 week one. That would make taking proviron safer as well, I suspect. Any opinions on cycle length, lemme know.
Also, since there are many varying opinions on HCG use in PCT, I was forced to pick one. If anyone has better experiences with higher dosages of HCG later on in a cycle, instead of starting injections early, I'm open to suggestion.
Just in case anyone asks, I'm 21, Male, and have gained about 35lbs naturally in the last year and a half, putting me at 195 right now. When bulking I generally consume 3500-4000 calories/day, healthy. Right now, I am cutting some fat and look to be about 185 with low bodyfat when I begin this cycle. Supplements now include: glutamine, creatine and multi-vitamins.
-peace-
   
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wolfyEVH
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02-22-2005, 02:00 AM

Testosterone Enanthate or Cypionate for 10 or 12 weeks at 500mg/week
Keep nolvadex on hand in case of gyno symptoms (if they do arise, take nolva at 40mg/day until your nips stop hurting/itching..then run for 20mg/day till end of cycle)

You will not need HCG or proviron, but you should take clomid with nolvadex for PCT (its more effective combining the two)

2 weeks after last test shot, start your PCT:

Day 1: 300mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva
Days 2-11: 150mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva
Days 12-21: 50mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva



remember to eat and train correctly, and you will gain 15+ lbs on this
   
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tee
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02-22-2005, 10:53 AM

Great info Wolfy. Welcome to Anasci Siclogic. You seem to be on a budget so cutting the HCG and Proviron should help you save some money. You can take the HCG if you have the bucks though, and as long as your cycle is over 8 weeks or more in length. You have obviously been researching things, and although I think 21 is a hair too young for juice, many do it at that age. Good luck.
   
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02-23-2005, 05:14 PM

Thanks, guys.
Ya, being a college student does kind of leave one short on cash a lot. However, I think I won't take any chances and I will get HCG. I wanted to run a dryer cycle, too, so if I find any Proviron I might still do that. Otherwise I'll be buying a lot of nolva. Were you pretty successful on your first cycles?
   
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02-23-2005, 05:45 PM

If I had to make a choice, I would go with proviron over nolva and HCG, but that's just me.

The information presented below is a cut and paste from our profile section:

Proviron is also not a c17 alpha alkylated compound, an alteration commonly used with oral anabolic/androgenic steroids. Not using this structure in the case of Proviron removes the notable risk of liver toxicity we normally associate with oral drugs. It is therefore considered a "safe" oral, the user having no need to worry about serious complications with use. This steroid in fact utilizes the same 1-methylation we see present on Primobolan (methenolone), another well tolerated orally active compound.


Disclaimer: Anasci.org and DragonRider do not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information we share is for entertainment purposes only.

"NO STEROIDS FOR YOU!"
   
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02-27-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyEVH
Testosterone Enanthate or Cypionate for 10 or 12 weeks at 500mg/week
Keep nolvadex on hand in case of gyno symptoms (if they do arise, take nolva at 40mg/day until your nips stop hurting/itching..then run for 20mg/day till end of cycle)

You will not need HCG or proviron, but you should take clomid with nolvadex for PCT (its more effective combining the two)

2 weeks after last test shot, start your PCT:

Day 1: 300mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva
Days 2-11: 150mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva
Days 12-21: 50mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva



remember to eat and train correctly, and you will gain 15+ lbs on this
Thanks Wolfy, my only question now is this: If I have any symptoms of gyno, which seems likely that I will, you say to keep on nolva throughut the cycle. This obviously helps against extra bloat as well, which I like. However, if I do take nolva throughout the cycle, how does this effect my nolva usage for PCT? I could stay right on nolva throughout my last shot of test and continue for two weeks until the test is cleared out, and then elevate my nolva useage to 40mg/day for two weeks (assuming here that i'm just going to use nolva for PCT) and then taper it off for two more weeks with about 20mg/day. What you said brought up that question and I had to be bothersome, but I do really want every aspect planned before I get my gear. I'd appreciate your opinion or anyone else who can set me straight on this.
Thanks.
ps-I am using HCG during cycle, after the 3rd week or so, because this will be a 10 week cycle and I can afford not taking any extra risks. Injections of about 250iu-500iu per week, as needed.
   
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wolfyEVH
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02-27-2005, 09:38 PM

you would stay on 20mg throughout the cycle, (only if you have had the symptoms of gyno). The 2 weeks after your last test shot...keep it at 20mgs a day till the 2 weeks is up. Since you plan on doing nolva only for PCT....do 1 week at 60mg/day, 1 week 40mg/day and the 3rd week at 20mg/day. I personally would do a clomid/nolva combo, but lots of people do nolva only and that works for them.
   
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02-27-2005, 09:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfyEVH
I personally would do a clomid/nolva combo, but lots of people do nolva only and that works for them.

Yes, I've read some positive stuff about combining both for PCT.


Disclaimer: Anasci.org and DragonRider do not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information we share is for entertainment purposes only.

"NO STEROIDS FOR YOU!"
   
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wolfyEVH
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02-27-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonRider
Yes, I've read some positive stuff about combining both for PCT.

this is taken from a PCT post by Pheedno over at AR....he's a very smart man when it comes to PCT

"Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons"
   
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02-27-2005, 09:50 PM

That's the article I read. I don't think it was at AR, but Pheedno is quoted about everywhere. You are right, the guy is a genius.


Disclaimer: Anasci.org and DragonRider do not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information we share is for entertainment purposes only.

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