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Anyone enlarged LVH
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Anyone enlarged LVH - 07-08-2013, 05:00 AM

As above anyone have this?
Is it as serious as it sounds?
Or is it a ticking time bomb?

I'm mainly asking for aas and training induced enlarged LVH

Thanks for any info on personal experience.
   
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07-08-2013, 06:01 PM

Anyone who frequently uses anabolics will probably have this to some degree. 19nors seem to be the worst in regards to LVH.
it can be a ticking time bomb but so many factors will come into play. And without an ultrasound you probably won't know the extent of LVH or how serious it may be.
   
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07-08-2013, 06:49 PM

what he said^^^. but ya, you'd have to get a heart scan to be certain man. no way to "feel" it or anything ya know
   
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07-08-2013, 07:05 PM

Whats LVH?
   
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07-08-2013, 07:43 PM

Left ventricle hypertrophy
   
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07-08-2013, 11:41 PM

Oh scary. Thanks D
   
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07-09-2013, 12:47 AM

The only thing I experienced was an xray revealed I had a borderline enlarged heart. I asked my doctor is using testosterone would do this, and he dismissed it as the cause. I told him I had been cruising on 250mg a week for a couple years. It is scary to think this can happen though.
   
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07-09-2013, 01:11 AM

Not to scare you, but what most docs don't know about test would (does) fill entire medical books. The research has found that long term use of 600mg or more per week is likely to cause LVH and therefore reduced ejection fraction/poor heart efficiency.

I'm sorry I don't have a reference for that statement tonight. If anyone cares, ill try to dig it up.

It's real enough that medical researchers are looking at ways to fix the problem

http://www.ergo-log.com/cardiodrugs.html
   
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Anyone enlarged LVH
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Anyone enlarged LVH - 07-09-2013, 01:48 AM

Ok cheers for the info people, I ask because iv had an ECG and the doc says it shows a slight enlargment of my LVH so I need to go hosp when I get my appointment for further tests to see the cause and extent of it.

Apparently if its thru aas+training then a 6week lay off from both is adviced then a re-test and this should show a decrease in the enlargment. If not then it could just be the natural growth of my heart (hereditory).

But I do believe its through aas use, so possibly a lay off from training during a trt cruise period should help keep it in check. I'll no more in a few weeks after my other test/scan.
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07-09-2013, 02:51 AM

You ever do eca stacks? If u do stims lay off because eca stacks especially can harden the LV makin ef not normal
Ps. Your heart is a muscle so any issues people have then u need to change ways to live a long life. In other words.. USE YOUR BRAIN
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07-09-2013, 09:57 AM

No not realy bothered with eca much, use for about a week 2month ago with t3,clen
   
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07-18-2013, 09:43 AM

lvh is common in athletes, its import to know what the ejection fraction is to know how efficiently your heart is working.

take magnesium and arjuna for your heart.
   
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07-18-2013, 10:41 AM

Well something's gotta kill ya. We don't live forever at least you can live strong while you are alive.
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07-18-2013, 02:08 PM

yeah that is sort of the point, LVH can lead to congestive heart failure. You dont want to die a slow death in a wheelchair not being able to get up and wipe your own ass or walk across your living room without getting out of breath.

my 50 year old cousin succumbed to it a few months back, Im 43 so I am going to need to be around here a while to take care of my family.

congestive heart failure risk is something that can be mitigated with proper knowledge and know how.

one of my buddys was on the heart transplant list when he started arjuna, his ejection fraction was 16, after a few months back into the 50s, off the transplant list and back lifting weights..


Salutary effect of Terminalia Arjuna in patients with severe refractory heart failure.
Bharani A, Ganguly A, Bhargava KD.
Source

Department of Medicine, M.G.M. Medical College, Indore, India.
Abstract

Twelve patients with refractory chronic congestive heart failure (Class IV NYHA), related to idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy (10 patients); previous myocardial infarction (one patient) and peripartum cardiomyopathy (one patient), received Terminalia Arjuna, an Indian medicinal plant, as bark extract (500 mg 8-hourly) or matching placebo for 2 weeks each, separated by 2 weeks washout period, in a double blind cross over design as an adjuvent to maximally tolerable conventional therapy (Phase I). The clinical, laboratory and echocardiographic evaluation was carried out at baseline and at the end of Terminalia Arjuna and placebo therapy and results were compared. Terminalia Arjuna, compared to placebo, was associated with improvement in symptoms and signs of heart failure, improvement in NYHA Class (Class III vs. Class IV), decrease in echo-left ventricular enddiastolic (125.28 +/- 27.91 vs. 134.56 +/- 29.71 ml/m2; P < 0.005) and endsystolic volume (81.06 +/- 24.60 vs. 94.10 +/- 26.42 ml/m2; P < 0.005) indices, increase in left ventricular stroke volume index (44.21 +/- 11.92 vs. 40.45 +/- 11.56 ml/m2; P < 0.05) and increase in left ventricular ejection fractions (35.33 +/- 7.85 vs. 30.24 +/- 7.13%; P < 0.005). On long term evaluation in an open design (Phase II), wherein Phase I participants continued Terminalia Arjuna in fixed dosage (500 mg 8-hourly) in addition to flexible diuretic, vasodilator and digitalis dosage for 20-28 months (mean 24 months) on outpatient basis, patients showed continued improvement in symptoms, signs, effort tolerance and NYHA Class, with improvement in quality of life.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID:
7649665
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
   
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07-18-2013, 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by phineas View Post
yeah that is sort of the point, LVH can lead to congestive heart failure. You dont want to die a slow death in a wheelchair not being able to get up and wipe your own ass or walk across your living room without getting out of breath.

my 50 year old cousin succumbed to it a few months back, Im 43 so I am going to need to be around here a while to take care of my family.

congestive heart failure risk is something that can be mitigated with proper knowledge and know how.

one of my buddys was on the heart transplant list when he started arjuna, his ejection fraction was 16, after a few months back into the 50s, off the transplant list and back lifting weights..


Salutary effect of Terminalia Arjuna in patients with severe refractory heart failure.
Bharani A, Ganguly A, Bhargava KD.
Source

Department of Medicine, M.G.M. Medical College, Indore, India.
Abstract

Twelve patients with refractory chronic congestive heart failure (Class IV NYHA), related to idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy (10 patients); previous myocardial infarction (one patient) and peripartum cardiomyopathy (one patient), received Terminalia Arjuna, an Indian medicinal plant, as bark extract (500 mg 8-hourly) or matching placebo for 2 weeks each, separated by 2 weeks washout period, in a double blind cross over design as an adjuvent to maximally tolerable conventional therapy (Phase I). The clinical, laboratory and echocardiographic evaluation was carried out at baseline and at the end of Terminalia Arjuna and placebo therapy and results were compared. Terminalia Arjuna, compared to placebo, was associated with improvement in symptoms and signs of heart failure, improvement in NYHA Class (Class III vs. Class IV), decrease in echo-left ventricular enddiastolic (125.28 +/- 27.91 vs. 134.56 +/- 29.71 ml/m2; P < 0.005) and endsystolic volume (81.06 +/- 24.60 vs. 94.10 +/- 26.42 ml/m2; P < 0.005) indices, increase in left ventricular stroke volume index (44.21 +/- 11.92 vs. 40.45 +/- 11.56 ml/m2; P < 0.05) and increase in left ventricular ejection fractions (35.33 +/- 7.85 vs. 30.24 +/- 7.13%; P < 0.005). On long term evaluation in an open design (Phase II), wherein Phase I participants continued Terminalia Arjuna in fixed dosage (500 mg 8-hourly) in addition to flexible diuretic, vasodilator and digitalis dosage for 20-28 months (mean 24 months) on outpatient basis, patients showed continued improvement in symptoms, signs, effort tolerance and NYHA Class, with improvement in quality of life.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID:
7649665
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
i see


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08-01-2013, 11:19 AM

The results:

Gp said my lest side is borderline enlarged, also a slight decrease in function also a couple of slight leaky valves.

The leaky valves he said can be normal for anyone no matter what there lifestyle so isn't a concern as they are.

He wants to refer me to a specialist but needs another gp to agree to it from the results which he said won't be a problem.

Anyone have any of the extra's to compare how you deal with the situation.
   
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Anyone enlarged LVH
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Anyone enlarged LVH - 09-25-2013, 05:56 PM

Update:

Seen the doc today to go over those results, he says my left chamber is fine, its the muscle wall that's increased in thickness,

His main concern is my ejection fraction it shud be over 55%, at the time of that scan 7weeks ago it was 41%, he's booking me in for 3months time to get another echo-gram and possibly an MRI scan if its not improved.

He said keep training weights and cv as normal for now.

Has anyone had an EF problem before? I'm looking into how to improve it now, unless the reason is physical permanant damage which I hope not.

Last edited by [email protected]; 09-25-2013 at 05:58 PM.
   
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09-28-2013, 02:18 PM

My fraction is in the 45-48 range. I have scarring of tissue of the Lv.
I take lisinipril. It relaxes vascular system. I feel noticbly better.
Try to eliminate bad habits. plenty of cardio. Reduce worry and stress.
Those will really aggravatye things. Keep an eye on it but don't overthink and worry too much. Thx T
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Anyone enlarged LVH - 09-28-2013, 04:55 PM

Thanks dude, do you still cycle ok? Is your med an ace inhibitor?

Also what do you assume the cause of the scar tissue is? Do you blame the aas or?
   
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Question 09-28-2013, 10:06 PM

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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
As above anyone have this?
Is it as serious as it sounds?
Or is it a ticking time bomb?

I'm mainly asking for aas and training induced enlarged LVH

Thanks for any info on personal experience.
Have you seen a doctor? If so,,how serious did they say?
   
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