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Opinions? Should first cycle be heavy or light?
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Question Opinions? Should first cycle be heavy or light? - 08-17-2013, 01:23 PM

So Iíve read a lot of different opinions on this topic. I frequently see people saying to stick with one compound (test only) for a first cycle. I have also recently read a few posts where people have suggested your first cycle is a sort of, "golden opportunity" to make major gains. They went on to state that after your first cycle you wont be able to make gains as easily, and that you should take advantage of your first cycle and go with moderate to high doses with multiple bulking compounds.
So if would it be better to start with one compound at a low to moderate dose, then build stronger cycles down the road? Or is it better to go balls to the walls on your first and try to make huge gains? What do you feel would be the benefits and/or disadvantages of either choice? What did you experience and what would you do for a first cycle if you could go back? Thanks!
   
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08-17-2013, 01:36 PM

400mgs- 500mgs of test e or c a week for 10-12 weeks for first cycle. First cycle is your best chance to gain more muscle on less steroids.
   
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08-17-2013, 01:43 PM

You'll make "major" gains on a test only cycle. This has been beating to death. You add the other compounds when one, you know you can handle test with out a problem and two, your ready to make that progression with your diet and another compound. Anabolism has it's limits and so do you. Keep it simple first time out and make your progression slowly and caculated. you'll make gains and have few problems that way


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08-17-2013, 01:52 PM

Spoken from experience.... I grew like a weed on my first cycle (500 mg a week of test C) I remember guys at the gym saying to me "You have got a lot bigger". Why? I think having years of natural training under my belt primed me for a burst of growth. Think about it. Who will grow more, the guy that has put on 30 pounds of muscle through a consistent natural training and nutrition program or the guy that has upped only 10 pounds of muscle before jumping to super supplements? Another point, if you start out with lower simple doses, you will see how your body responds. This gives you some education for the next cycle, and so on. One more point, if you have built quality muscle naturally, you will get a lot of bang or the buck off your first conservative doses. Its almost like you body is soaking it up like a sponge. Then you can bring out the bigger guns down the road and keep progressing as you need to by up the doses.

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08-17-2013, 02:09 PM

I think you will make good gains from just test only I would start out lower and you can increase for more.
   
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08-17-2013, 02:47 PM

im liking what i hear so far, thank guys, Im looking at starting a test cyp only cycle soon, I think im going to go with 400mg a week.
25yrs
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>8%
Beast.

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08-17-2013, 02:56 PM

Finally someone listening to what we have to say..... do not go upwards of 500 mgs make sure to get proper ai in case needed and pct.
P
   
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08-17-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrees View Post
im liking what i hear so far, thank guys, Im looking at starting a test cyp only cycle soon, I think im going to go with 400mg a week.
25yrs
180lbs
>8-10% BMI
Beast.
Don't know how long you've been lifting but I've seen the exact debate you're talking about. Since I'm passed that point, I have no stake in the debate because, like most people, I started with just 200mg test, twice a week. I was insanely strong for months! But I was 30 so and had been lifting for quite a while.

I can't believe the way some of these 19 or 20 year old kids hit the sauce hard right off the bat!! 2 years later, they're in a national show. I have to believe that once they drop the sauce, that's going to be a long way to fall.

Oh well, just some thoughts. But I concur with what these vets are telling you. Start off slow and then you have somewhere to go. (besides down)

quick edit here: that's not your BMI, that's your bodyfat percentage (BF, BF%, or sometimes BFP). Your BMI is probably 25-30 depending on how tall you are.
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08-17-2013, 03:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoe2006 View Post
Finally someone listening to what we have to say..... do not go upwards of 500 mgs make sure to get proper ai in case needed and pct.
P
right now i have hcg on hand and am trying to figure out the proper way to use it, the best read i have found so far says to use it through the cycle but im not sure how much or how often with this low test only cycle. I also have anastrozole, from what ive seen most people run 12.5mg every other day through the cycle....would that dose be reasonable for this cycle? if so then what week should i start and stop the anastrozole? also do i need to go through the clomid/nolva pct on this cycle? if so any input on that would be appreciated, ive read all about it and think i have it right but im just not sure about doses and timing due to this test only cycle, thanks

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08-17-2013, 03:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OuchThatHurts View Post
Don't know how long you've been lifting but I've seen the exact debate you're talking about. Since I'm passed that point, I have no stake in the debate because, like most people, I started with just 200mg test, twice a week. I was insanely strong for months! But I was 30 so and had been lifting for quite a while.

I can't believe the way some of these 19 or 20 year old kids hit the sauce hard right off the bat!! 2 years later, they're in a national show. I have to believe that once they drop the sauce, that's going to be a long way to fall.

Oh well, just some thoughts. But I concur with what these vets are telling you. Start off slow and then you have somewhere to go. (besides down)

quick edit here: that's not your BMI, that's your bodyfat percentage (BF, BF%, or sometimes BFP). Your BMI is probably 25-30 depending on how tall you are.
yea your right, its a shame how many young people are doing it so so wrong, and yea i had a buddy who was abusing like no other and he passed me up a little for awhile but now that he is off he cant hang....and yea sorry about the BMI, i had to have mine taking recently and they told me it was 8% but im guessing they ment that was my body fat %, im 6ft tall 180lbs, got my first bar when i was 13 and have been at it since, was military so had several years of lots of cardio and running, since i was 16 i doubt ive taken more than a month off at a time and the only reason i ever had was due to an illness of some sort, thanks for the input man

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08-17-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by OuchThatHurts View Post
Don't know how long you've been lifting but I've seen the exact debate you're talking about. Since I'm passed that point, I have no stake in the debate because, like most people, I started with just 200mg test, twice a week. I was insanely strong for months! But I was 30 so and had been lifting for quite a while.

I can't believe the way some of these 19 or 20 year old kids hit the sauce hard right off the bat!! 2 years later, they're in a national show. I have to believe that once they drop the sauce, that's going to be a long way to fall.

Oh well, just some thoughts. But I concur with what these vets are telling you. Start off slow and then you have somewhere to go. (besides down)

quick edit here: that's not your BMI, that's your bodyfat percentage (BF, BF%, or sometimes BFP). Your BMI is probably 25-30 depending on how tall you are.
just curious what type of test were you using 2x a week, would i be better off breaking my 400mg a week up into 200mg 2X week? i think i read that the cyp stays active for 12 days so ive been trying learn about how the levels fluctuate based on the timing and type of compound. If the test cyp stays active for 12 days and I was using 400mg a week, would the levels be continually building through the whole cycle? I hope that makes sense...im my head im thinking if i shoot 400mg cyp on week one and if the test cyp stays active for 12 days....then im shooting another 400 only 7 days after the first would i still have active test from the first dose AND the new 400mg dose in my body, I hope this isnt a dumb question as I am trying to have a firm understanding of how these compounds work with our bodies. Any input is appreciated
   
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08-17-2013, 03:50 PM

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yea your right, its a shame how many young people are doing it so so wrong, and yea i had a buddy who was abusing like no other and he passed me up a little for awhile but now that he is off he cant hang....and yea sorry about the BMI, i had to have mine taking recently and they told me it was 8% but im guessing they ment that was my body fat %, im 6ft tall 180lbs, got my first bar when i was 13 and have been at it since, was military so had several years of lots of cardio and running, since i was 16 i doubt ive taken more than a month off at a time and the only reason i ever had was due to an illness of some sort, thanks for the input man
Your Body Mass Index is 24.4 if you are 6ft/180lb.

25yrs old, low BF%, 6ft, you have a TON of potential!!! Keep up that cardio (some will tell you different) because on that 14th rep with 495lb on your shoulders with your quads screaming, you'll be thanking the heavens for your high VO2 max.
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08-17-2013, 03:59 PM

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just curious what type of test were you using 2x a week, would i be better off breaking my 400mg a week up into 200mg 2X week? i think i read that the cyp stays active for 12 days so ive been trying learn about how the levels fluctuate based on the timing and type of compound. If the test cyp stays active for 12 days and I was using 400mg a week, would the levels be continually building through the whole cycle? I hope that makes sense...im my head im thinking if i shoot 400mg cyp on week one and if the test cyp stays active for 12 days....then im shooting another 400 only 7 days after the first would i still have active test from the first dose AND the new 400mg dose in my body, I hope this isnt a dumb question as I am trying to have a firm understanding of how these compounds work with our bodies. Any input is appreciated
I can tell you exactly what kind it was. It was 200mg/ml Testex Leo Prolongatum (test cypionate). I looked at those vials for weeks before I got up the nerve. I injected twice a week because 2cc's looked like a LOT (hahaha). So I split it. You could do the same. If you decide to go 2cc's once per week or every 10-12 days (which is perfectly fine), I'd use the the glutes. At 180, 2cc's seems like a lot for your delts.

So ideal would be 1cc x 2/wk IMO. 2cc's is a lot of oil to start with. Also, if you are administering these yourself, read all the information on a PROPER intramuscular injection. I'm a real stickler about that sort of thing (for what it's worth).
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08-17-2013, 04:04 PM

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Your Body Mass Index is 24.4 if you are 6ft/180lb.

25yrs old, low BF%, 6ft, you have a TON of potential!!! Keep up that cardio (some will tell you different) because on that 14th rep with 495lb on your shoulders with your quads screaming, you'll be thanking the heavens for your high VO2 max.

thanks man im feelin motivated, and about the cardio, I have always done lots of cardio...mostly against my will from the military...but its always been crazy hard to gain mass...i can get stonger...eat everything i can find and drink shakes and i really gain slow...in the last 8 months or so i have nearly cut out all cardio..not ALL...but most..and its barley helped me gain weight...im telling you i eat everything and anything i want...lots of meat and chicken and i drink mass building shakes daily....i guess i could always eat more and i am working on that...lol but with all this in mind how often should i be doing cardio and at what intensity while on my cycle? i use to run 10 miles like it was my job...well it was...but now i dont run at all really...just hit a speed and heavy bag for cardio most the time
   
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08-17-2013, 04:14 PM

double post see next
   
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08-17-2013, 04:15 PM

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Originally Posted by OuchThatHurts View Post
I can tell you exactly what kind it was. It was 200mg/ml Testex Leo Prolongatum (test cypionate). I looked at those vials for weeks before I got up the nerve. I injected twice a week because 2cc's looked like a LOT (hahaha). So I split it. You could do the same. If you decide to go 2cc's once per week or every 10-12 days (which is perfectly fine), I'd use the the glutes. At 180, 2cc's seems like a lot for your delts.

So ideal would be 1cc x 2/wk IMO. 2cc's is a lot of oil to start with. Also, if you are administering these yourself, read all the information on a PROPER intramuscular injection. I'm a real stickler about that sort of thing (for what it's worth).
right on man, i think i will do the 2x a week, not afraid of the stick and i got plenty of 25g ready..lol i also have a background in pharmacy so i got that aseptic technique down..lol im still curious about the timing....if i pin every 7 days and the cyp is active for 12 days would i be overlaping doses...is there any issues with this?..im still reading up on it and i imagine it doent make a whole lot of difference but i work with peoples meds everyday and i almost always see the test cyp prescribed for every 14 days
   
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08-17-2013, 04:21 PM

Hello. How long have you been training?how tall is that 180lbs?
1st.. The advice i would give is a low dose test cycle around 6-8 weeks.
You need no more than 300mgs of quality cyp or enan. Next at 25 you should be in prime natty endocrine part of your life. That is why i'm asking about training history. maybe you can lay down a bit better base still as you have yet
to monkey with your endocrine system. Early on i suggest using short
test cycles as plateau breakers. Follow with proper pct. Then work hard to come up to your "on" levels of strength and size. Kind of like a
a ladder you can only climb 5 rungs up 2 rungs back, 5 rungs up two rungs back and so on. You will eventually climb it with real muscle instead of a large percentage on a temporary loan basis. Once again before anything else are you SURE your diet and training are on point?That is 80%. Make sure you have all 80%in hand or the other 20%(aas/ergos) will never =100%.
A great 1st cycle is 200-300mg test. have E controlls in place.
You may not need them or you may really need them.That golden opportunity as you mention of using a stout first cycle is bad advice in my opinion.
Use every option up at the beginning and you will have no options when you really need them. I used this way of doing things and had many years
where my off time strength and size were pretty nice. By the way if
you use anastrozole at 12.5 mg's daily you will quickly have the worst lipid profile imaginable and joints that sound like some one walking on a carpet of potato chips.i'm sure you meant exemstane/aromasin. That would likely be overkill on a low dose test cycle. Put up some training stats etc and you can get better help.The guys above populus brick and ouch and others are giving good advice.Glad you are being sensible and asking. So many come and gones
thought it was all in a bottle. They couldn't have been more wrong. Don't be one of those . Be one of us.. Thanks for sharing , T....
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08-17-2013, 04:31 PM

Basic test cyp..its closest in molecular structure to normal human male produced hormone...250 mg split for 125mg every four days and see how it goes.
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08-17-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:
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right on man, i think i will do the 2x a week, not afraid of the stick and i got plenty of 25g ready..lol i also have a background in pharmacy so i got that aseptic technique down..lol im still curious about the timing....if i pin every 7 days and the cyp is active for 12 days would i be overlaping doses...is there any issues with this?..im still reading up on it and i imagine it doent make a whole lot of difference but i work with peoples meds everyday and i almost always see the test cyp prescribed for every 14 days
The overlapping, as you say, is not only inevitable, it's expected. The oil will be there for 2-3 weeks. It is completely necessary for you to reach a steady-state plasma level (usually by the 3rd or 4th dose).
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08-17-2013, 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobusa View Post
Hello. How long have you been training?how tall is that 180lbs?
1st.. The advice i would give is a low dose test cycle around 6-8 weeks.
You need no more than 300mgs of quality cyp or enan. Next at 25 you should be in prime natty endocrine part of your life. That is why i'm asking about training history. maybe you can lay down a bit better base still as you have yet
to monkey with your endocrine system. Early on i suggest using short
test cycles as plateau breakers. Follow with proper pct. Then work hard to come up to your "on" levels of strength and size. Kind of like a
a ladder you can only climb 5 rungs up 2 rungs back, 5 rungs up two rungs back and so on. You will eventually climb it with real muscle instead of a large percentage on a temporary loan basis. Once again before anything else are you SURE your diet and training are on point?That is 80%. Make sure you have all 80%in hand or the other 20%(aas/ergos) will never =100%.
A great 1st cycle is 200-300mg test. have E controlls in place.
You may not need them or you may really need them.That golden opportunity as you mention of using a stout first cycle is bad advice in my opinion.
Use every option up at the beginning and you will have no options when you really need them. I used this way of doing things and had many years
where my off time strength and size were pretty nice. By the way if
you use anastrozole at 12.5 mg's daily you will quickly have the worst lipid profile imaginable and joints that sound like some one walking on a carpet of potato chips.i'm sure you meant exemstane/aromasin. That would likely be overkill on a low dose test cycle. Put up some training stats etc and you can get better help.The guys above populus brick and ouch and others are giving good advice.Glad you are being sensible and asking. So many come and gones
thought it was all in a bottle. They couldn't have been more wrong. Don't be one of those . Be one of us.. Thanks for sharing , T....
thanks man, well said, and Im 6 ft tall 180lbs >8%, been training my whole life..i lift like im well over 200lbs, you said 300mg week would be plenty and i would like to use as little as possible...so maybe ill cut it back to 150mg 2x a week.
here are a few questions if you dont mind
1. I did read about how the anastrazole jacks up your good chloesterol and joints.....i already have the crap on hand so what do you think..should i order something else? if so can you give me some doses/frequency/timing help?
2. I also have HCG....should i worry about using this on this cycle?
3. I have been through this so many times and i just want to get it straight...on the low dose test only cycle..whats a good pct? i hate to just ask but ive read and read but most pcts i have reviewed are for people using multiple compounds at higher doses.
   
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