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Go Back   Anabolic Steroids Discussion and Bodybuilding Forum > Anabolic Science Section > Anabolic Science Forum

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AAS and creatine
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AAS and creatine - 10-22-2013, 11:41 AM

I have been doing some research about creatine and came across the following information, "creatine...pulls water into the muscle", and "creatine..is recommended for those who don't have kidney problems".
My questions are these, should someone using aas; particularly compounds which promote a lot of water retention like anadrol and deca; stay away from creatine supplements ?
Should someone using creatine stick to using aas such as anavar, winstrol, which don't usually promote much water retention ?
Should someone using any aas whatsoever stay away from creatine supplementation altogether as it will increase the likelihood of side effects relative to BP and kidney issues ?

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10-22-2013, 12:14 PM

Honestly, creatine is not going to cause that much water retention... if at all. creatine is a natural occurring substance found on meat and shellfish and just like any nutrient, it will have an effect on your body. At normal doses, creatine is safe, even when used alongside AAS. If you have pre-existing kidney or blood pressure issues, I would be more concerned with AAS than creatine. However, creatine may further blood pressure or kidney issues if you have them...

I have not heard of anecdotal evidence indicating that creatine exacerbates the side effects of ASS (but that doesn't mean it can't occur).

I found this interesting...although the study was on rats, it may have some weight here. Basically, when the rats were performing exercise, there as no negative effect of LONG TERM HIGH dose creatine supplementation but kidney damage was apparent in the sedentary group.

This may be because when you exercise your are depleting creatine phosphate stores and creatine supplementation replenishes them.

http://www.jssm.org/vol8/n4/25/v8n4-25pdf.pdf
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10-22-2013, 01:26 PM

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Originally Posted by AtomAnt View Post
Honestly, creatine is not going to cause that much water retention... if at all. creatine is a natural occurring substance found on meat and shellfish and just like any nutrient, it will have an effect on your body. At normal doses, creatine is safe, even when used alongside AAS. If you have pre-existing kidney or blood pressure issues, I would be more concerned with AAS than creatine. However, creatine may further blood pressure or kidney issues if you have them...

I have not heard of anecdotal evidence indicating that creatine exacerbates the side effects of ASS (but that doesn't mean it can't occur).

I found this interesting...although the study was on rats, it may have some weight here. Basically, when the rats were performing exercise, there as no negative effect of LONG TERM HIGH dose creatine supplementation but kidney damage was apparent in the sedentary group.

This may be because when you exercise your are depleting creatine phosphate stores and creatine supplementation replenishes them.

http://www.jssm.org/vol8/n4/25/v8n4-25pdf.pdf
What would be considered a normal dose and high dose of creatine ? I was considering 20 gms a day spread out in 5 gm doses for 5 days then 10 gms a day therafter, 5 gms pre and 5 gms post workout.
My bp off cycle is in the high normal range and on cycle it was stage 1 hypertension range. I was running low moderate test e and eq with dbol kicker and dbol, anavar finisher and 12.5 A-sin eod. I am off right now and I am planning on a higher dose test and eq for my next cycle with an anadrol kicker 50-75 mg ed and was concerned about water retention with the afore mention dose of creatine. Thoughts thanks ?
   
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10-22-2013, 01:36 PM

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What would be considered a normal dose and high dose of creatine ? I was considering 20 gms a day spread out in 5 gm doses for 5 days then 10 gms a day therafter, 5 gms pre and 5 gms post workout.
My bp off cycle is in the high normal range and on cycle it was stage 1 hypertension range. I was running low moderate test e and eq with dbol kicker and dbol, anavar finisher and 12.5 A-sin eod. I am off right now and I am planning on a higher dose test and eq for my next cycle with an anadrol kicker 50-75 mg ed and was concerned about water retention with the afore mention dose of creatine. Thoughts thanks ?
No need to load creatine 5-10g day will saturate your CP stores. And in the long run, it has been proven that loading provides no additional benefits.

If anything is going to cause water retention it is the drol or dbol. A moderate dose of creatine (5-10g/day) will not cause any significant water retention in healthy individuals by itself. If you are concerned about water retention and BP, I would drop the dbol and drol...

Also, I prefer a lower dose of exemestane every day than EOD due to the half life... less fluctuation in hormonal levels that way.


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11-05-2013, 05:19 AM

I will have to find the article I read this in but creatine definitely doesn't need to be loaded. Wish they would have discovered that a decade ago bit also depending on intended results a daily does of 3g-5g is sufficient. I remember taking 20g a day for the first week when it first became extremely popular. I read this in a military medical journal because at 28 I went back to college and my anatomy teacher said there were no benefits to taking it, so when we had to do a research paper and present it to the class I wanted to prove her wrong and only medical journals could be used. I am sure that a larger man could possibly benefit from a larger dose. I got a 100 on the paper. Just trying to add to what brother AtomAnt said. Thanks.
   
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11-05-2013, 06:48 AM

I would like to study that showed that loading phases for creating were useless. Every since I started taking creatine 10 yrs ago I've always heard to load for the first week and to cycle on and off of it.
   
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11-05-2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000ib View Post
I have been doing some research about creatine and came across the following information, "creatine...pulls water into the muscle", and "creatine..is recommended for those who don't have kidney problems".
My questions are these, should someone using aas; particularly compounds which promote a lot of water retention like anadrol and deca; stay away from creatine supplements ?
Since AA, has answered much of your question I would like to clarify a bit. CM pulls water into muscles (Good) which is different from the aromatizing effect of AAS which cause you to hold water subcutaneous/(under skin in fat) (bad). So really they are two different issues.

Good luck,
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11-05-2013, 03:20 PM

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I would like to study that showed that loading phases for creating were useless. Every since I started taking creatine 10 yrs ago I've always heard to load for the first week and to cycle on and off of it.
I did they samething until I did aome real research. I should have a copy of the journal my paper and speech. As long as it was not thrown out in my divorce (exwife tossed a large amount of my belongings). However even if I can not my copy I will either find the article or one verifying the information. Also most companies no longer put those Instructions on the bottle. Give me a few days. Between work, the gym, and my son my time can be limited. I will find an article and post, but if I can not as it is another's intellectual property. I will at least quote and my reference. Always eager to share and pass on knowledge plus this will save some money that could be spent elswhere.
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11-05-2013, 10:05 PM

The reason people say not to use creatine if you have kidney problems is because creatine pulls water into your muscle while it also converts ADP to ATP. Your kidneys need a sufficent amount of water to function properly. Individuals with kidney problems such as kidney stones are much most likely to have problems when they are dehydrated. The reason for this is the water is diluting the crystalline formation so it can leave your body via urine. If you have kidney problems the more hydrate you are the better your body can deal with this disfunction. Taking creatine on top of having kidney problems compound the issue making it worse. I know I am rambling here but the point is if you have kidney problems then taking creatine or AAS are going to have an effect on your kidneys if you don't stay hydrated. I can speak for AAS but with creatine drinking an extra glass of water per 5 grams creatine monohydrate with offset this problem. This is a hydration issue, hope that helps
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11-05-2013, 11:42 PM

By that conversion you essentially replace your reserves of burst energy, which if you didn't you get lactic acid. We all know that isn't good. We use different types of substances as storage for our fuel for our different energy needs. A long distance runner doesn't really use energy that way it is more of a steady consumption and this is the important part the presence or lack of oxygen. Thats why you are taught not to hold your breath when lifting. You would burn through that burst energy 10-15 seconds w/o oxygen and then you are normally feeling the burn but not in a good way. Anyway. I would like to apologize to 2000ib I did not mean to turn your thread into a creatine commercial and thank you to everyone who actually answered his question. Slate I'm going to atleast find an article in a medical journal and post it or most likey quote and site. I don't have the college's password to the database anymore but I should be able to locate one.
   
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11-06-2013, 01:16 AM

Thanks for all the replies and knowledge !!:
   
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11-09-2013, 02:45 AM

I apologize Slate I have not had time to do the research i need to because i just finally got through all the testing to get in an apprentiship program at the local ship yard. I have 4 weeks off intense classroom and burning, cutting , and welding to do before I can make it to the yard so it is going to take me longer that expected. I had to take the chance though as even an apprentice makes more than most jobs around here and when im done i can use it and my USMC exp plus my TWIC card to get on a ship working for the engineer and make double or more what this job pays. If i play my cards right in a couple of years I could be making some very good money. So again i apologize. I just wanted you to know i didn't forget. Thanks
   
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