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first time on gear - 10-27-2013, 01:34 PM

Ok so i am 20 years old and have been lifting for 4 solid years naturally. I plan on starting a cycle i just need some help on a few things. So i plan on taking 500mg of test E once a week along with arimidex and HCG during my cycle. Post cycle i plan on taking clomid. I have also heard you can substitute nolvadex or clomid for the arimidex during the cycle just curious as to what works best. Also im not really sure of how much HCG i should be taking i plan on taking .25mg of arimidex every day during the cycle. Starting two weeks after my last injection i start taking the clomid. During that two weeks after my last injection do i need to still take the arimadex and HCG.
   
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10-27-2013, 08:25 PM

I really think you can make gains natty at your age if you are eating correctly. Are you aware of the possible risks of cycling at your age? Your AI and serm use would need improving before running an effective cycle anyway. How does your nutrition plan look?
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Lightbulb 10-27-2013, 09:35 PM

At 20 yrs old at least have your natural hormone production tested 1st. You may need nothing but TRAINING,,DIET,,REST and DISCIPLINE.
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10-28-2013, 12:07 AM

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I really think you can make gains natty at your age if you are eating correctly. Are you aware of the possible risks of cycling at your age? Your AI and serm use would need improving before running an effective cycle anyway. How does your nutrition plan look?
Yes my nutrition is on point and has been for the past two years i dont know if u have heard of the fat free mass index but a ffmi of 25 is about the limit for a natural guy, im at like 24.6 so that means i dont have much at all left to gain im pretty much at my natty limit. I have competed in natural shows and done well. I will start a cycle soon just wondering what u guys think about that cycle.
   
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10-28-2013, 12:16 AM

good read .... http://www.anasci.org/vB/anabolic-st...-steroids.html
   
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10-28-2013, 12:21 AM

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Yes I have read that article and it helped out a lot. I'm looking to gain around 15 to 20 pounds of lean muscle just wondering if the cycle i posted earlier would be a good starting point.
   
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10-28-2013, 12:29 AM

@ your age ... u shld start small .... personally i would rather u go with 250/wk and only use Clomid/ Novaldex for PCT. Skip the Arimedex n HCG.
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10-28-2013, 12:37 AM

So skip the arimedex and use novaldex or clomid during my cycle?
   
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10-28-2013, 01:41 AM

PCT= post cycle therapy meaning after you complete your cycle. And this is the reason many of us will say stay off juice until you're a little older and you've reached your genetic potential. Meaning the point where you won't grow anymore. Do a lot more research before you decide to start cycling. Anyways that's just my 2¢ Cuz at ur age you've got plenty of natural testosterone flowing.
P
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10-28-2013, 02:15 AM

We are here to help with some guidance if that's the way you decide to go. But like ashop said get ur levels tested before hopping on a cycle and definitely keep the mgs low and do some more research
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10-28-2013, 03:34 AM

Ok..this bugs me.. You are 20.. When you are 20 your blood serum test levels are normally through the roof what's your serum level? At LEAST go to online lab pay the 49$ and get blood tested . That way it says your estrogen levels also and for gods sake u need to read more literature on aas for your own learning because it's not some magical broswole become Mr.Olympia on one cycle. Dont u want to ever have kids ? You need to just become a Marky Mark get rippped natty train and eat and learn your ass off young adult IMO . Arimedex hard on liver values so no to that.And u don't use clomid and novaldex during a cycle just "because your buddy does".. Come on...
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10-28-2013, 06:45 AM

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Yes my nutrition is on point and has been for the past two years i dont know if u have heard of the fat free mass index but a ffmi of 25 is about the limit for a natural guy, im at like 24.6 so that means i dont have much at all left to gain im pretty much at my natty limit. I have competed in natural shows and done well. I will start a cycle soon just wondering what u guys think about that cycle.
What are your daily macros?
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10-28-2013, 06:54 AM

Hey man, welcome aboard. I'll try to give some objective advice to you.

Cycle looks fine, at least it's a basic test cycle, you've already made up your mind to do it. OK, here's my advice to you. Follow the above advice from these very knowledgeable guys. Get a serum test to see where you're at with test levels. Blood work is ALWAYS part of this thing - first cycle or fiftieth. If it isn't you won't be very happy in the long run. Plus your gains won't be maximized.
I'd get the serums, come back here with them (they're really cheap to do and you can schedule them online in a snap anywhere) and we'll give you a realistic idea of how to get started. AnaSCI is not your typical forum. It's filled with guys and gals who really do care about your safety and success whether you do or not! We want to help people making this very important decision to get the best results they can while keeping expectations realistic and health your long-term number one priority. Make sense?
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"To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

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10-28-2013, 08:29 AM

I don't agree with anyone here on this- just do it. Most of is started young and I feel most of the guys on the board as much as I love them love to say this crap- "max out your natural genetics" "you're too young" bla bla bla.... I started young and it was fine. I know a shit ton of other guys who started young and are fine...

This whole issue of starting too young is just some bullshit that people love to say with no real validity behind it.
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10-28-2013, 08:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwll View Post
Yes my nutrition is on point and has been for the past two years i dont know if u have heard of the fat free mass index but a ffmi of 25 is about the limit for a natural guy, im at like 24.6 so that means i dont have much at all left to gain im pretty much at my natty limit. I have competed in natural shows and done well. I will start a cycle soon just wondering what u guys think about that cycle.
Nolva and Clomid are not a sub for an ai(Adex or aromasin) they do different things. An AI will lower your circulating estrogen were the serms you are talking about ( Clomid and nolvadex) compete for the receptor in your mammary glands. So they are similar but different. I suggest the use of an AI for on cycle and using the serms during your pct.
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10-28-2013, 02:51 PM

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I don't agree with anyone here on this- just do it. Most of is started young and I feel most of the guys on the board as much as I love them love to say this crap- "max out your natural genetics" "you're too young" bla bla bla.... I started young and it was fine. I know a shit ton of other guys who started young and are fine...

This whole issue of starting too young is just some bullshit that people love to say with no real validity behind it.
Oh stop it..Many of messed up 20 somethings already on trt therapy of a 40yr old ..and its from stupidity.. but like Grim said follow blood test regularly as you have made up your mind.. best of luck following your goals..ib
   
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10-28-2013, 03:43 PM

If the OPs made up his mind, I'm advocating merely he is actively monitoring his health which should be done in general - AAS or not. With exogenous hormone administration, one should be sensible and careful with one's health. I can understand peoples' feelings that since anabolics are so effective when first administered, logically, it would seem that you should save that first cycle for when you're exhausted natural genetic limitations rather than using anabolics to assist with getting up to that level when you could have gotten there without them. THEN used them to smash thru your genetic ceiling. Again, OPs body - his or her decision.
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"How long should I be resting between sets?"
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"To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"
   
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10-28-2013, 04:20 PM

I think all of us agree with u grim we're just trying to offer some guidance. And yes he's made up his mind already otherwise he wouldn't be here or asked us for help. Most of us started out young like him but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better for us to wait another 5 years or so. Regular bloodwork is definitely a must for the op before during and after to monitor your levels etc
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10-28-2013, 05:46 PM

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we're just trying to offer some guidance. ...
Absolutely man I thought it was good stuff you gave him as well! I wish more people would love training and self discovery instead of falling in love with the chemicals.
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"How long should I be resting between sets?"
"Well, if we're talking, you should go again."


"To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"
   
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10-28-2013, 07:00 PM

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What are your daily macros?
my macros for bulking right now are at 580 carbs, 110 fat, 380 protein and i am currently 5'8 at 180 pounds and 8 percent body fat. Just curious i know blood work is important during and post cycle to make sure your still healthy but how can blood results help before my cylce? and what is the cheapest way to do, my local doctor?
   
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