AnaSCI - Fitness Evolved

Buy Needles and Syringes with NO PRESCRIPTION   Synthetek Muscle Building And Fat Loss Products   Cheap Pure Supplements

©ALL CONTENT OF THIS WEBSITE IS COPYRIGHTED AND CANNOT BE REPRODUCED WITHOUT THE ADMINISTRATORS CONSENT 2003-2019

   
  Synthetek Syntherol  
   
   
   
Largest Selection of Bodybuilding Products   Largest Selection of Bodybuilding Products   Largest Selection of Bodybuilding Products


User CP FAQ Members List Calendar New Posts Quick Links Log Out

AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved  AnaSCI Fitness Evolved


        
        
        
        
        

Automatic Translations (Powered by Yandex):
Albanian Belarusian Catalan Czech Danish Dutch English Estonian Finnish French German Greek Hungarian Italian Latvian Lithuanian Macedonian Norwegian Portuguese Russian Slovak Slovenian Spanish Swedish Turkish Ukrainian

Go Back Ā  Anabolic Steroids Discussion and Bodybuilding Forum > Anabolic Science Section > Anabolic Science Forum

Like Tree12Likes
  • 2 Post By 3biglifts
  • 3 Post By vpiedu
  • 4 Post By Ironbuilt
  • 1 Post By WTHagain1
  • 1 Post By mike1107
  • 1 Post By tri-terror

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Getting leaner before cycle?
Old
  (#1)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Getting leaner before cycle? - 11-09-2013, 06:51 PM

Hi all,

I'm getting ready for my first cycle and have been researching compounds, dosing schedules, etc. for a couple of months. As a 31 year old female powerlifter weighing around 150 (not competing yet, but definitely training for strength) there have been very few forum posts and/or logs that I find comparable to my situation and goals (I've seen mostly figure competitors, many of whom are in their 20's, and all of whom are lighter than I am).

I've gotten what I think is some good advice here and elsewhere and narrowed it down to clen + var for 8 weeks. The clen is because, while I'm not aiming for a specific "look" the way figure/BB girls are, I'd be lying if I said I didn't care about aesthetics at all (or being able to fit into my clothes) and I'm certainly not strong enough to move up in a weight class for when I eventually do start competing.

However, I've seen multiple posts on this forum and others that advise people to get lean before going on cycle in order to "get the most out of it". I'm not sure if this is more from a looks perspective or actually related to drug effectiveness? Obviously it makes sense that the less body fat you have (and the smaller you are in general), the lower the dose you can probably get away with and still make gains (and probably have fewer sides because the dose is lower). But if it's just a dosing issue (less vs. more), rather than an actual overall effectiveness issue (works well vs. barely works), that's different.

Does anyone have any research/evidence or personal experience to share that supports one of the following:
1) starting with a certain body fat % is OPTIMAL to make gains (and/or keep gains post-cycle)
2) starting with a certain body fat % is CRUCIAL to make any real gains (and/or keep gains post-cycle)
3) as long as the dose is appropriate and diet, training, rest, etc. are on point, body fat % isn't directly related to gains on-cycle (and/or keeping gains post-cycle)

Of course, I know this will likely differ for men and women to a certain extent, but it would still be helpful for me to hear how you guys did on cycle and if how lean you were when you started seemed to make any difference.

Thanks in advance!

- Christie
Ironbuilt and psych like this.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#2)
AnaSCI VIP / Donating Member
 
vpiedu's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 711
Join Date: Oct 2012
11-09-2013, 08:29 PM

i am a powerlifter and have always found that any cycle no matter how big or conservative yielded the best results strengthwise if i was carrying around a few extra pounds of reserve BF. this is just me but for strength there is nothing better. i do believe now that i could have saved my body tons of stress by doing lighter cycles in the past since i still see great results with crazy light cycles these days. i hope this helps in some way. glad you are researching and feel free to ask more questions and welcome to ANASCI.

VP
Ironbuilt, Phoe2006 and 3biglifts like this.


Age: 50
Height: 6'
Weight 270
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
Banned
 
Offline
Posts: 8,353
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Mūnich , Germany
11-09-2013, 09:25 PM

3biglifts u gotta realize and should know most guys do not have facts cause they are meatheads. excp ib..
But i do say maximizing ones natural potential naturally plus having correct dieting skill plus have the weight training ergonomics correct before jumping on AAS to prevent serious.. injury.
Lots a guys jump in head first slammin a gram a test and having just starting to even gym it..all they get are sides and injury.
Be prepared is what im saying...thks.ib
srd1, d2r2ddd, Slate23 and 1 others like this.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
AnaSCI VET
 
d2r2ddd's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 2,569
Join Date: Apr 2013
11-09-2013, 09:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironbuilt View Post
3biglifts u gotta realize and should know most guys do not have facts cause they are meatheads. excp ib..
But i do say maximizing ones natural potential naturally plus having correct dieting skill plus have the weight training ergonomics correct before jumping on AAS to prevent serious.. injury.
Lots a guys jump in head first slammin a gram a test and having just starting to even gym it..all they get are sides and injury.
Be prepared is what im saying...thks.ib
Amen!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
Banned
 
Offline
Posts: 138
Join Date: Oct 2013
11-09-2013, 09:57 PM

Most guys will try to cut some body fat before they cycle so they get fewer sides from increased testosterone levels.
chrisr116 likes this.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
11-09-2013, 10:17 PM

IB, I agree with you! If I didn't think I had eating and training on point with several years of lifting behind me, I wouldn't even be considering AAS.

Losing fat is particularly challenging for me (long story, but after struggling for years I had my BMR assessed in a lab to find out that my actual calorie burn is only 65% of what it should be based on my body comp via BodPod). Based on past experience I know I can design a diet and stick to it, and I will slowly see results, but I also lose a LOT of strength in the process. My current eating plan is designed to support my training and not specifically aimed at getting leaner.

So, to re-state my question a slightly different way: is it beneficial/necessary for me to diet down first and accept the reduction in strength that comes with that before I cycle, or as long as I keep eating and training in alignment with my goal (get stronger while maintaining or improving appearance), is being at or below a certain body fat % not important?

I realize I'm going to get opinions and personal experiences, but then at least I'm making a slightly more educated decision than just going for it and not maximizing my results because I hesitated to ask. I've done a lot of research but I haven't seen any threads that address this question directly so I figured why not bring it up myself?

Ultimately, all I'm trying to do is make sure I start from the best foundation I can, and I'm grateful to have a place like this that can help me do exactly that. Any thoughts you guys have would be helpful.

Thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironbuilt View Post
3biglifts u gotta realize and should know most guys do not have facts cause they are meatheads. excp ib..
But i do say maximizing ones natural potential naturally plus having correct dieting skill plus have the weight training ergonomics correct before jumping on AAS to prevent serious.. injury.
Lots a guys jump in head first slammin a gram a test and having just starting to even gym it..all they get are sides and injury.
Be prepared is what im saying...thks.ib
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
AnaSCI VIP
 
mike1107's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 742
Join Date: Oct 2004
11-14-2013, 04:02 AM

My approach now is that one should keep a correct bf% year round
I don't care if you bulk or maintain or whatever but being lean with a decent bf% is always good if you are cycling for muscle (aesthetic goal) then I would go with lowering bf% then cycle

Also when you are trying to gain muscle you add some extra calories and may gain fat from it, so beginning a cycle when leaner is what everybody should do IMO
BIG D likes this.




LIKE - AnaSCI Facebook
SUBSCRIBE - AnaSCI YouTube

SYNTHETEK - Best hardcore bodybuilding products
STERILESYRINGES.COM - Get your Needles and Syringes from here
PRO WRIST STRAPS - Simply the best straps in the world
DISCUSSWORLDISSUES.COM - Socio-economic and political free speech
HOW TO DO INJECTIONS - Full Pictorial Injection Guide
PURE SUPPLEMENT POWDERS - All lab certified
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
Registered User
 
tri-terror's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 941
Join Date: Oct 2012
11-14-2013, 04:11 AM

Christie,
for what you are trying to do you would be fine to hop on now. The whole get lean first thing mostly applies to bodybuilding. With us dudes the higher BF% it seems that you convert more estrogen.
You are not going to have problems with aromatization with var and clen so it does not matter for you.
Do you know how to cycle on and off with clen?

Also, you will probably end up doing it at some point anyway... Primo is probably going to be much better for you in terms of strength gains.
3biglifts likes this.


"all you have to do is look at someone’s shins and hands; do they look fucked up? Then listen to them.”- Jim Wendler
   
Reply With Quote
Getting leaner before cycle?
Old
  (#9)
AnaSCI VET
 
kubes's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 2,018
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Getting leaner before cycle? - 11-14-2013, 09:14 AM

Christie
I agree that the lower bf for make bodybuilders relates to less sides via aromatization. Also the lower the bf the more you can see the muscle development from your cycle because it isn't hidden under that layer of fat. I agree with above though based on your goals you should be fine considering you already have your nutrition and training down. Do you know your current bf?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
11-15-2013, 11:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tri-terror View Post
Christie,
for what you are trying to do you would be fine to hop on now. The whole get lean first thing mostly applies to bodybuilding. With us dudes the higher BF% it seems that you convert more estrogen.
You are not going to have problems with aromatization with var and clen so it does not matter for you.
Do you know how to cycle on and off with clen?

Also, you will probably end up doing it at some point anyway... Primo is probably going to be much better for you in terms of strength gains.
My understanding with clen is ramp up to assess tolerance, then 2 weeks on/2 weeks off + benadryl. Sound right?

Interesting suggestion on the Primo - that's one I honestly haven't really considered for 2 reasons, but maybe I'm not getting good info: 1) it seems to get a bad rap for being faked a lot, and I don't have enough (any) experience to know whether I've gotten real or fake, which could be particularly bad for me as a woman and 2) I think I'd be ok pinning in the future but wanted to do an oral for my first cycle so if/when I get sides I can decrease the dose immediately (especially since I don't have personal experience in this from prior cycles or anything and may not pick up on the sides as early as someone who's attuned to looking for them). I've seen discussion on oral primo but legit stuff in oral form seems even harder to come by...

But then again I may have just seen people repeating the same nonsense over and over again. I'm almost starting to think I'm OVER researching and analyzing this...
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
11-15-2013, 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim230027 View Post
Christie
I agree that the lower bf for make bodybuilders relates to less sides via aromatization. Also the lower the bf the more you can see the muscle development from your cycle because it isn't hidden under that layer of fat. I agree with above though based on your goals you should be fine considering you already have your nutrition and training down. Do you know your current bf?
Last time I had it measured I was 24%, but that was with calipers so I'm not about to consider it set in stone. And it may have even gone up a little bit since then (but my lifts have gone up too, so I'll deal ).

But you make a very good point. I might try to track down a BodPod around here and get it re-done in a reliable fashion so I at least know where I'm starting from...
   
Reply With Quote
Getting leaner before cycle?
Old
  (#12)
AnaSCI VET
 
kubes's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 2,018
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Getting leaner before cycle? - 11-16-2013, 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3biglifts View Post
Last time I had it measured I was 24%, but that was with calipers so I'm not about to consider it set in stone. And it may have even gone up a little bit since then (but my lifts have gone up too, so I'll deal ).

But you make a very good point. I might try to track down a BodPod around here and get it re-done in a reliable fashion so I at least know where I'm starting from...
Keep in mind that bf measured on a female is almost always going to be higher than on a male. Meaning a female at 14-18% bf will look much leaner than a male at that bf%
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
WPF Champion / Donating Member
 
psych's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 3,131
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Chicago
11-20-2013, 12:05 AM

Dropping a few before a cycle is IMO a good idea. This way if you gain you still make weight. Training for a meet you will want to eat and recover. Hard to sleep when your cracked out of your mind.

Honestly, compete first. You'll have more than enough getting ready for the first meet than having to worry about this or that. You plan on going raw, raw w/knee wraps, single, multi? Full power, bench only, dead only, push pull? Is the fed tested or not...etc You got to see how you hold up to the training. Alot of guys I know have injuries that pop up when getting ready and sometimes gear masks it or makes it ALOT worse.

Have you tried ephedrine? Ephedrine and some caffeine can do alot within the parameters of a tight diet and training schedule. Just saying cause Clen is some serious shit...


Fuck the judges, I'm worried about the spotters!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
11-20-2013, 01:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by psych View Post
Dropping a few before a cycle is IMO a good idea. This way if you gain you still make weight. Training for a meet you will want to eat and recover. Hard to sleep when your cracked out of your mind.

Honestly, compete first. You'll have more than enough getting ready for the first meet than having to worry about this or that. You plan on going raw, raw w/knee wraps, single, multi? Full power, bench only, dead only, push pull? Is the fed tested or not...etc You got to see how you hold up to the training. Alot of guys I know have injuries that pop up when getting ready and sometimes gear masks it or makes it ALOT worse.

Have you tried ephedrine? Ephedrine and some caffeine can do alot within the parameters of a tight diet and training schedule. Just saying cause Clen is some serious shit...
I'm actually really stimulant-resistant at this point...for as long as I can remember, I've had a higher drug tolerance, even to stuff taken for the first time, but it's intensified now because I have narcolepsy. It took almost 2 years for me to get diagnosed, and in that time I went through just about every chemical and herbal stimulant available just to make it through the day. I could barely stay awake, let alone get to the gym, so I basically stopped training and have spent most of the last year building back up from everything I lost. I've got a good doctor and a better management plan now than the questionable pill and powder cocktails I was using, but after being on stims at that level for that duration, even after a long detox break, they do very little for me (not to mention the underlying issue that my baseline level of "awake" to build from is far below normal).

I take prescription meds for it, as well as supplement with ephedrine (bronkaid/sudafed) and caffeine on a semi-regular basis (no BP issues, I'm lucky). So it's possible that clen might not even do that much for me...but at the least I can guarantee it will NOT keep me awake at night!

It's a lot harder to recover and grow (and/or lose fat) with such messed-up sleep, and I've been stuck at the same weights in the gym for what seems like forever. That's the primary reason I'm considering adding drugs to the mix now; I'm already eating well and sleeping as much as I can while holding down a full-time job, but my sleep is just that severely impaired that it compromises my ability to recover even when I'm doing things right.

Rather than adding another stimulant into the mix, I'd probably be better off with something like DNP and just suck up the sweatiness factor for a little while.

Ideal first meet for me would be deadlift only, since it's my best lift and the one I'm most comfortable doing. I lift with a belt and nothing else...I have knee and wrist wraps but my wrapping technique isn't very good and sometimes I think they're more of an impediment than a help on squat and bench.

I'll probably end up in an untested meet unless I can get a tested federation to approve a petition for exemption of my narcolepsy prescription meds (which are considered a banned substance). Of course, if I go to an untested meet I would expect to be up against more intense, AAS-enhanced competition and probably not stack up as well, but it would be good experience nonetheless.

Wow...this one kind of turned into an essay, huh? On that note, it's bedtime for this girl. The only thing better than leg day is sleep after leg day!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
Banned
 
Offline
Posts: 138
Join Date: Oct 2013
11-20-2013, 10:34 AM

Get some adderall if you can. That'll help you lose some fat. Love that stuff.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#16)
AnaSCI MEMBER
 
Offline
Posts: 22
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
11-20-2013, 11:39 AM

I'm prescribed and take adderall every day to keep me awake - it helps (some) in that department, but hasn't done anything for me in terms of fat loss. Kind of surprising since you hear so many reports of people dropping tons of weight on it.

If adderall hasn't had any impact, does that mean clen likely wouldn't either?
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#17)
AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
 
BigBob's Avatar
 
Online
Posts: 2,907
Join Date: Nov 2012
11-20-2013, 12:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3biglifts View Post
I'm prescribed and take adderall every day to keep me awake - it helps (some) in that department, but hasn't done anything for me in terms of fat loss. Kind of surprising since you hear so many reports of people dropping tons of weight on it.

If adderall hasn't had any impact, does that mean clen likely wouldn't either?
No Clen works by a different pathway. It isn't really a stimulant but it can seem that way to many. I find it works well but you have to be careful on dosage. Start out real low and work your way up.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#18)
AnaSCI VET
 
Offline
Posts: 1,149
Join Date: Apr 2013
11-20-2013, 12:45 PM

i think mike said it best. its always better to start in a lean state, rather than a bit pudgy

your body will respond better to food, gear and training when lean
   
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:29 AM.



Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright © 2003-2019 AnaSCI.org. All rights reserved.