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and another one: short cycles
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and another one: short cycles - 06-18-2014, 03:14 AM

This is a qoute from Kingtung well known Poster at AGJ and other Boards. the whole thread is interesting:

Starting Lean and Homeostasis - Aussie Gym Junkies


Quote:
Part 2 (adaptation to chemicals, ie homeostasis):
Homeostasis in biology basically describes adaptation to a certain stress factor. Example being body temperature (when the temp is hot, body sweats to cool itself off, when its cold, body shivers to generate heat through thermogenesis). This I noticed, and after speaking to a lot of veterans in the sport (esp some notable on AGJ, such as shredded, gs69azza and the likes) i noticed our findings were correlating and I was not wrong about theory of adaptation.

This also happens with many non-bodybuilding based drugs, and is known as tolerance. And each drug has its benefit:disadvantage ratio, whereby the body will play around with it to minimize both. Regardless however after a certain period of time, the drug will become very ‘weak’ per say.

Take for example your first week of dianabol, feel hard as rock/full etc. 10 weeks later at the same dose, despite having added muscle mass and the likes, that fullness will not be as prevalent as the first week. You will probably need a higher doseage to get the fullness as you started with, but regardless even after that 20th week, the fullness will eventually disappear.

Below is a quote to complete the above:

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSYCHOPATH
alp, what's your take on receptor down regulation or "clogging"? Have you ever stopped responding to AAS?


I don't believe in "receptor clogging" per say. However, the body is always striving for homeostasis, so you will get to a point where you will make gains in certain jumps. If someone does his first cycle at 500mg/week of test, he will probably gain somewhere in the neighborhood of 15-25lbs, depending. Now if he were to stay at 500mg/week indefinitely, obviously we can say at a certain point his gains will stagnate, and they will stagnate regardless of training or diet variables (only thing that will change is fat gain).

So to answer your question simply, no, we know for a fact receptor clogging does not happen or even exist. However, this remains somewhat irrelevant as we still need to make some type of variable affect to change homeostasis, as change will only happen while we are out of homeostasis (as far as gains are concerned).

Also people tend to not be able to grasp the simple concept that if it took you 500mg to reach 200lbs, then it will probably take you 750mg to reach 215lbs, and so on and so on. It has nothing to do with receptor downgrading, it has to do with XXXmg = YYYweight


My view on each steroid has always been:
a) The degree of muscle formed (anabolic)
b) The degress of fat loss (androgen à sexual dimorphism, difference between man and women, ie less fat, androgenic fat deposits)
c) Individual characteristics specific to that steroid, example eq=leather skin & veins, anavar=hardness, primo=polished shine look etc etc)

Most steroids will exhibit the above, but again after a while they will slow down. What causes this slow down? I do not know, some theorize it could be myostatin/certain enzymes/certain biological process which I have yet to hear about. All the above 3 factors slow down.

In regardless to myostatin, there is a common well ‘bro’ fact that test-e gains slow down after say 10th week. Happens a lot of the time, and the theory is that myostatin levels go up. Well I had access to myostatin-HMP (which basically was an anti-peptide to myostatin). And lo and behold at ~10th week my gains had stagnated and weren’t as rapid (1000mg test-e). I introduced myo-hmp, and lo and behold my gains began to climb again. For testosterone this could be the culprit (high myostatin levels), I do not believe however it is so for other steroids since they have their own biological pathways which we have to find out about (bodybuilding is founded on ‘bro’-science that is later accredited to become ‘scholarly’ so to speak, but regardless its unethical for an aids/burn patient to be 220lb of muscle).

Solution to above? I asked UCP the above theory and its possible answer:

Quote:
Its common knowledge that the body is a very 'adaptive' mechanism; in terms of drug-sensitivity and the likes. Now assuming you do 4 weeks (of X/Y/Z) compounds, then swap to (A/B/C) compounds in the next 4 weeks.
a) is it wise to taper up X/Y/Z in first 4 weeks; so body continually has to adapt?
b) is 4 weeks an adequete time to be running certain compounds then swap for 'new' chemicals in the system.



Quote:
It's my contention that tapering up or down makes no sense. I don't use the compounds long enough to matter. I believe the 4 week switch is enough to prevent adaptation.


In summary? Swap compounds every 4 weeks. A good method would be bulk (and by bulk I don’t mean getting fat, just ‘higher’ then normal water retention), followed by a cut (lesser water retention holding drugs).
Example (swapped from a->b after 4 weeks of each)
a) Bulk: 1200mg EQ, 600mg NPP, 150-200mg Test-prop, 60-100mg dbol
b) Cut: 1200mg Primo, 600mg Mast, 150-200mg Test-prop, 60-100mg anavar
Those will fine above and will continue to add gains.

There are 2 exceptions to this rule above. HGH and Tren:
HGH: being the obvious (continual fatty acid release into blood stream, hence fat loss) and hyperplasia (through systemic IGF-1), ie new muscle cells. As a buselmo once said ‘it’s the best thing since Islam for the middle-eastern bodybuilders, why? Because you never stop growing on that shit’. Plain and simple.

Tren: It’s the single most powerful anabolic and androgenic drug created (refer to notes a/b/c above), do not worry about the bullshit ratio you see on steroid.com, what works on paper does not technically correlate to real life. Tren promotes androgenic sides (facial structure, muscle maturity, behavior such as anger, fat loss, hair loss) in very high form, and the anabolic sides (ie muscle growth, you continually add muscle). Hence why it is used in cows before slaughter. I have noticed apart from that, the body is not able to adapt to it aswell as other compounds, why? I do not know, despite it being a foreign substance, you continually grow on it.

The downsides to tren? The harsh side-effects, due to the amount of growth that is happening, your blood work is out of whack, blood pressure and esp mental side-effects.

If you don’t wish to consider the above health aspects, by all means, up the HGH and tren.
I know manye guys these days run shorter cycles or change compunds more often. What are you guys think about the "bulk" then "cut" idea in regards of gear choice?

I think i will try something like:

4 weeks High eq/moderat deca/low test + maybe oral
4 weeks high mast/some primo (or tren) + maybe oral
4 weeks trt

start again

What are you think.
   
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06-18-2014, 01:36 PM

i don't believe in this crap at all because I personally know what a famous mr.olympia did, and several other people that made it big, and they don't do this.

their cycles are always 8-12 weeks and there are usually 3 main compounds that always stay the same throughout(example: test/deca/anadrol).

there's so much conflicting information all over the internet, but I just think it's better to keep it simple.

1200 eq or 1200 primo for 4 weeks? how is that going to do anything? maybe if you're just some average gym bro, it'll do something...
4 weeks of masteron?

this honestly just looks dumb, especially because of the compounds that were recommended....

Week1-8
1K Test
600 NPP
100 ANADROL ED
4IU PHARM HGH ED
-continue test @ 300/week for cruise,continue HGH

That looks better to me...and way simpler and less dumb.
humpthebobcat likes this.

Last edited by Derek7X; 06-18-2014 at 01:38 PM.
   
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06-18-2014, 01:47 PM

goals for using aas?

Last edited by humpthebobcat; 06-18-2014 at 01:50 PM.
   
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06-18-2014, 02:49 PM

Yeah...Short cycles are good if used right, I feel 4 weeks is too short for one compound...6 week minimum for me and 8 weeks is a good spot to switch if you wanna switch hormones.

So like:
1-16 500 Test E
1-8 600 NPP
1-4 40 Dbol
9-16 450 Tren Ace
9-13 50 winstrol

EQ and DECA are too long lasting to switch so soon, something with shorter esters is good to switch, but honestly should be at 6-8 weeks if you are gunna cut it short.
   
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06-18-2014, 04:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Collinb View Post
Yeah...Short cycles are good if used right, I feel 4 weeks is too short for one compound...6 week minimum for me and 8 weeks is a good spot to switch if you wanna switch hormones.

So like:
1-16 500 Test E
1-8 600 NPP
1-4 40 Dbol
9-16 450 Tren Ace
9-13 50 winstrol

EQ and DECA are too long lasting to switch so soon, something with shorter esters is good to switch, but honestly should be at 6-8 weeks if you are gunna cut it short.
Solid advice, this is also commonly done...

1-16 test or test+EQ @ various dose
1-8 npp @ various dose
9-16 tren @ various dose

an oral put at front and end of cycle...
   
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