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Fact vs myth - liver toxicity of injectable orals
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Fact vs myth - liver toxicity of injectable orals - 08-06-2014, 07:38 AM

So after quite a bit of research, I've learned there is no way for an injected oral to be subject to first pass liver metabolization.

This is a simply matter of plumbing-

Once something is ingested... It's broken down in the stomach, then moves into the small intestine where it's absorbed into the blood stream and then is shuttled via hepatic portal vein into the liver for metabolization.

This is the only way something would be subject to first pass metabolization- if you administer a drug via intramuscular injection then it's absorbed directly and by passes the liver.

So from a physiological point of view- no injectable orals are not as hepatoxic, but none the less they still impose a great deal of stress on the renal system.
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Last edited by Enigmatic707; 08-16-2014 at 07:20 AM.
   
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08-06-2014, 08:11 AM

Good post...
Tis better to shoot your winny than drink it....
   
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08-06-2014, 08:37 AM

but doesn't anything smoked, drank or injected pass thru via the bloodstream?
   
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08-06-2014, 09:23 AM

Bro science tells me that when I take orals orally my stomach and digestion suffers. When I inject orals my stomach is fine. So no first pas thru the liver. Probably takes a lot of the strain off?
   
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08-06-2014, 10:13 AM

With all the great gear out there how about just dont run any orals?
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08-06-2014, 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by naplestraining View Post
but doesn't anything smoked, drank or injected pass thru via the bloodstream?

Yes, but only things that are taken orally are subject to first pass liver metabolism

Oral admin is as follows-

Mouth > stomach> small intestine> liver> heart> arteries> body-

Intramuscular admin
Muscle> blood vessels> heart> arteries> body
   
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08-06-2014, 11:14 AM

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Originally Posted by amateurmale View Post
With all the great gear out there how about just dont run any orals?

I love orals- the hype about liver toxicity is over blown anyways.
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08-06-2014, 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatic707 View Post
I love orals- the hype about liver toxicity is over blown anyways.
It is? So u have blood work to back that statement?
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Fact vs myth - liver toxicity of injectable orals
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Fact vs myth - liver toxicity of injectable orals - 08-06-2014, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateurmale View Post
It is? So u have blood work to back that statement?

What blood work have you ever seen to back that elevated liver values indicates a looming health disaster? I've listened to liver specialist tell me over and over again how they've almost never seen or heard of a patient with liver scerocois due to oral steroids-

Elevated AST and LST is not a accurate hepatic health marker.

Last edited by Enigmatic707; 08-06-2014 at 11:28 AM.
   
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08-06-2014, 11:28 AM

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Originally Posted by Enigmatic707 View Post
What blood work have you ever seen to back that elevated liver values indicates a looming health disaster? I've listen to liver specialist tell me over and over again how they've almost never seen or heard of a patient with liver scerocois due oral steroids-

Elevated AST and LST is not a accurate hepatic health marker.
What length of time are u talking about?
   
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08-06-2014, 11:37 AM

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What length of time are u talking about?

We'll go to the extreme case here-

I've read quite a bit about the use of Anadrol in terms of treatment for severe anemia, hepatic function was a health marker monitored during treatment in the studies I've read-

In most cases no abnormal function was observed at a dose of 50-75mg of daily use until 3+ years of treatment. These studies were conducted in japan back in the 80's and 90's

This is daily use for 3 damn years... Again we are taking about function not enzyme levels... Enzyme levels subsequently are markers of function- not disease. They simply show that the liver is metabolizing something. It's a very backwards way of looking at liver health to be honest.

I've said quite a bit lately that renal health is by far the most problematic aspect of oral steroids.

Again- you show me a person who has shown long term damage due to oral steroids. I've yet to find one who was a healthy individual without an existing drug or substance abuse issue.
   
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08-06-2014, 11:40 AM

Guy at my gym stayed on orals for like a year and now he has cysts and tumors and it's due for surgery next week. He's lost like 60 pound in a month.
   
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08-06-2014, 12:43 PM

Everyone probably has different tolerances and predispositions. Best to be on the side of caution. I don't think the benefits outweigh the risks. My day job isn't living and dying as a bodybuilder, lol.
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08-06-2014, 01:33 PM

IMO, Anadrol is the safest oral steroid, and can be taken for 6 weeks with pretty much zero risk.

I think all these other oral drugs people say are mild like Anavar are much worse because they affect cholesterol/lipids way more. It's weird to me that everybody says Anadrol is the "most toxic" one. Anybody know why they say this?
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08-06-2014, 01:35 PM

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Originally Posted by Derek7X View Post
IMO, Anadrol is the safest oral steroid, and can be taken for 6 weeks with pretty much zero risk.

I think all these other oral drugs people say are mild like Anavar are much worse because they affect cholesterol/lipids way more. It's weird to me that everybody says Anadrol is the "most toxic" one. Anybody know why they say this?
Probably because it has the worst sides maybe?
   
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08-06-2014, 01:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek7X View Post
IMO, Anadrol is the safest oral steroid, and can be taken for 6 weeks with pretty much zero risk.

I think all these other oral drugs people say are mild like Anavar are much worse because they affect cholesterol/lipids way more. It's weird to me that everybody says Anadrol is the "most toxic" one. Anybody know why they say this?
because they come in 50mg/tab commercially, while var and winni come in 2-2.5mg/tab.
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08-06-2014, 01:41 PM

@Myo - Little lost on what you're trying to say. Can you elaborate? I would think that people would process that as, "Wow, well the minimum dosage of Anadrol pills is 50mg....so 50mg of Anadrol must be a lot safer that other orals at 50mg"...assuming we used that mindset.


@Amateur

That's probably individual. Also once again, I think it's weird that I read on the internet throughout forums that Anadrol has the worst sides, because it's quite the opposite for everybody I know. I highly doubt everybody I know just happens to be part of some weird circle of individuals that differ from the rest of the population haha...

Idk anybody who has any Anadrol sides at all... I mean hair loss yeah, but nothing else. Even the blood pressure increase on 200mg+ a day of Anadrol is apparently similar to dbol at even 40mg(I'm talking real stuff here, not underdosed stuff people usually use). I feel like everybody must be getting fake anadrol or something ?!? Maybe it really does just affect a lot of people.......I just personally don't know anybody...that ever had problems with it.

O_o
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Last edited by Derek7X; 08-06-2014 at 01:44 PM.
   
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08-06-2014, 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateurmale View Post
Probably because it has the worst sides maybe?
As mentioned, it's just so damned individual of a thing that those 'worst' sides don't affect everyone to the same degree if at all. Personally, I get zero, zilch, nada sides many get from a bombs except for strength and size gains, I love anadrol and have used quite heavy doses at times.
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Fact vs myth - liver toxicity of injectable orals
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Fact vs myth - liver toxicity of injectable orals - 08-06-2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by amateurmale View Post
Guy at my gym stayed on orals for like a year and now he has cysts and tumors and it's due for surgery next week. He's lost like 60 pound in a month.

Cysts and tumors on his liver?

There are a few guys here who have claimed to been on orals for over 2 years without any long term negative health consequences-

Again this has been my general experience with orals myself and this has also been what's reported to me anecdotally and from the medical standpoint as well-

I'm not saying that he doesn't have cysts and tumors, but again one has to look at it from all angles and realize that there may have been a pre existing condition.

From what I've read- liver functions would be significantly diminished long before anything like a cysts or a malignant growth would begin to be problematic

Last edited by Enigmatic707; 08-06-2014 at 02:13 PM.
   
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08-06-2014, 02:10 PM

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Originally Posted by The Grim Repper View Post
As mentioned, it's just so damned individual of a thing that those 'worst' sides don't affect everyone to the same degree if at all. Personally, I get zero, zilch, nada sides many get from a bombs except for strength and size gains, I love anadrol and have used quite heavy doses at times.
This is exactly what I see in the real world! I don't know anybody with any sides from anadrol! Even blood pressure is 120-125,maybe 130 at 200/day! I'm talking dozens of people too!

I swear, the anadrol people are getting online must be something else -- there's just no way! Hah, I'm kidding, I know it's extremely individual...but man the number of stories I see online about anadrol apparently being terrible while dbol being incredible honestly makes me scratch my head.
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