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Letro Protocal
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Letro Protocal - 10-04-2015, 03:05 PM

Done a good Amt of reading on this but still want to get opinions on the use of this compound since it will be the first time using it.

I've always used Aromasin for an Anti E. But, I still have some lingering gyno. Thought I'd give Letro a shot as others have had success shrinking up some bumps.

Undecided on dosage really. I don't think 2.5 is really wise given the extreme nature of this. 1.25 is likely the max I'll go it I may even start with half of that.

I'm also contemplating using this as my anti-e on my next cycle as well. I really need to stay ahead of this gyno. Definelty would like to hear how others have used this on cycle as there AI and dosage.

Thanks.
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10-04-2015, 03:54 PM

I never touch letro. use nolva and aromasin. But if you're prone to gyno then you're prone to it. I just say no to letro cause if fucks with lipids and can wreck your joints. Joint health is a big deal in powerlifting, can't risk it.
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10-04-2015, 04:57 PM

Letro is a very harsh drug, but it has shrunk gyno up for me several times. I got lumps a few years ago from PH's, before i was educated. I now have to live with them unless i spend the money on surgery. But with letro, i have them small enough they aren't visible at all...but, they are there. I am now terribly gyno sensitive, and tren, dbol, deca, npp, and anadrol aggravate my issue, and makes my lumps grow. Once they are slightly visible, i drop the compound thats causing the issue and start letro at 1.25mg ed. This has always fixed the problem and shrunk my lumps back to unoticable size in a few weeks. I tried the old protocol of ramping up to 2.5mg ed, but let me tell you i felt fucking horrible. Lost size and weight, joints hurt and cracked like a decrepit old man...lost all libido, gains stopped, and dried my whole body out including lips and skin. Fuck that! 1.25 mg a day is still as effective as 2.5 (for me) and the sides arent nearly as bad-however i still experience all those symptoms, just to a lesser degree. Some ppl like letro as an ai on cycle, but the dose needs to be kept very low. Right now i'm experimenting with letro on cycle for the first time (because i'm trying low dose anadrol) and it's going good. First i started with .625 mg a day but it was too much, so now i am just using that amount every 3 days. Normally i just use aromasin at 12.5-25mg ed depending on what i'm using, and that works great and i dont suffer from any miserable sides. I'd stay away from letro unless you're trying to fix a gyno issue, but thats just me.
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10-04-2015, 05:20 PM

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Letro is a very harsh drug, but it has shrunk gyno up for me several times. I got lumps a few years ago from PH's, before i was educated. I now have to live with them unless i spend the money on surgery. But with letro, i have them small enough they aren't visible at all...but, they are there. I am now terribly gyno sensitive, and tren, dbol, deca, npp, and anadrol aggravate my issue, and makes my lumps grow. Once they are slightly visible, i drop the compound thats causing the issue and start letro at 1.25mg ed. This has always fixed the problem and shrunk my lumps back to unoticable size in a few weeks. I tried the old protocol of ramping up to 2.5mg ed, but let me tell you i felt fucking horrible. Lost size and weight, joints hurt and cracked like a decrepit old man...lost all libido, gains stopped, and dried my whole body out including lips and skin. Fuck that! 1.25 mg a day is still as effective as 2.5 (for me) and the sides arent nearly as bad-however i still experience all those symptoms, just to a lesser degree. Some ppl like letro as an ai on cycle, but the dose needs to be kept very low. Right now i'm experimenting with letro on cycle for the first time (because i'm trying low dose anadrol) and it's going good. First i started with .625 mg a day but it was too much, so now i am just using that amount every 3 days. Normally i just use aromasin at 12.5-25mg ed depending on what i'm using, and that works great and i dont suffer from any miserable sides. I'd stay away from letro unless you're trying to fix a gyno issue, but thats just me.
Appreciate all the info bro. I am trying to fix the gyno, so I am going to give it a whirl. If it kicks my ass too much with the sides as you described, I will certainly drop it and go back to aromasin. Aromasin did a pretty solid job for me. But, for some reason I just started getting crazy itching the past week. I am off cycle, have been for months, have been stable with everything and then out of no where I get aggravating symptoms. I've had the lumps for some time. Years in fact. The aromasin seemed to even shrink them early on, so that's awesome and all but I'd really like to see if the letro is any more effective.

I read your thread on using letro pretty thoroughly. It was very helpful. I will likely use that protocol as a guide.

Keep me informed on how your use of letro as an AI on cycle is going if you would please. I'm also going to be running anadrol soon on cycle, and for the first time mind you, so I'd love to compare notes and help each other out if possible.

Thanks for chiming in brother!!!
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10-04-2015, 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st Ranger View Post
Done a good Amt of reading on this but still want to get opinions on the use of this compound since it will be the first time using it.

I've always used Aromasin for an Anti E. But, I still have some lingering gyno. Thought I'd give Letro a shot as others have had success shrinking up some bumps.

Undecided on dosage really. I don't think 2.5 is really wise given the extreme nature of this. 1.25 is likely the max I'll go it I may even start with half of that.

I'm also contemplating using this as my anti-e on my next cycle as well. I really need to stay ahead of this gyno. Definelty would like to hear how others have used this on cycle as there AI and dosage.

Thanks.
I've had this discussion numerous times with people, and I'll post a copy of a convo I had with someone just yesterday on a different forum. It may/may not shed some light on your current situation,the convo maybe edited slightly to serve you better...
-------------------------------------

Far as Letro, this method (supposed cure) has been regurgitated and spouted recklessly throughout the forums for years, without ANY SOLID EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT!
All letro will do is minimally reduce the inflammation by entirely removing E2 completely (not a wise thing, as we need estro)..NO MEDICATION WILL REMOVE GYNO..It will only decrease localize inflammation within the ducts/glandular tissue!

There's forms of treatment to hinder further growth, and minimize local inflammation within the "glandular tissue", and the most effective method is in fact Tamox, due to its binding affinity to the receptors..You can utilize Tamox long term at low dosages, UNLIKE letro, where you may acquire a slew of health/sexual related issue..

The problem is with the "Glandular tissue" being sensitize to E1/E2,the localize tissue on the male breast,the receptors being dependent (this sounds like you 101st)..You can take all the AI's you wish, but they don't have a direct course of action that targets these receptors solely (glandular breast tissue)..All your doing is removing E2 from the entire endocrine (static system),thus giving the appearance that it's targeting the glands directly, at the same time failing to provide the rest of the body's functions with estro in which it needs to operate as each hormone has a partnership that influence each other to create a state of balance within, as the system of checks try to create..

Treatment should be to target,not annihilate and obliterate (unless it's cancerous)...The only PROVEN method to remove gyno is with a "Scalpel" or "laser"!

Any other medication is merely treatment!

I would suggest very low,to moderate dose of letro, with a low does of tamox (run both concurrent, LOW DOSE)..You can remove letro and return treatment with it later when you wish to discontinue letro, to avoid and estro rebound effects (again, not proven in all subjects)..

Target,target, and target.. Do not remove, you dont need crush E2 levels.. This will lead to a slew of other health related issues!
   
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10-04-2015, 09:36 PM

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I've had this discussion numerous times with people, and I'll post a copy of a convo I had with someone just yesterday on a different forum. It may/may not shed some light on your current situation,the convo maybe edited slightly to serve you better...
-------------------------------------

Far as Letro, this method (supposed cure) has been regurgitated and spouted recklessly throughout the forums for years, without ANY SOLID EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT!
All letro will do is minimally reduce the inflammation by entirely removing E2 completely (not a wise thing, as we need estro)..NO MEDICATION WILL REMOVE GYNO..It will only decrease localize inflammation within the ducts/glandular tissue!

There's forms of treatment to hinder further growth, and minimize local inflammation within the "glandular tissue", and the most effective method is in fact Tamox, due to its binding affinity to the receptors..You can utilize Tamox long term at low dosages, UNLIKE letro, where you may acquire a slew of health/sexual related issue..

The problem is with the "Glandular tissue" being sensitize to E1/E2,the localize tissue on the male breast,the receptors being dependent (this sounds like you 101st)..You can take all the AI's you wish, but they don't have a direct course of action that targets these receptors solely (glandular breast tissue)..All your doing is removing E2 from the entire endocrine (static system),thus giving the appearance that it's targeting the glands directly, at the same time failing to provide the rest of the body's functions with estro in which it needs to operate as each hormone has a partnership that influence each other to create a state of balance within, as the system of checks try to create..

Treatment should be to target,not annihilate and obliterate (unless it's cancerous)...The only PROVEN method to remove gyno is with a "Scalpel" or "laser"!

Any other medication is merely treatment!

I would suggest very low,to moderate dose of letro, with a low does of tamox (run both concurrent, LOW DOSE)..You can remove letro and return treatment with it later when you wish to discontinue letro, to avoid and estro rebound effects (again, not proven in all subjects)..

Target,target, and target.. Do not remove, you dont need crush E2 levels.. This will lead to a slew of other health related issues!
Excellant write up! And I appreciate you sharing it.

I've also read that Letro and nolvadex run concurrently will diminish the efficacy of the nolva in fact. Have you heard this? I will dig it up, if not.

I do plan on having the surgery and hopefully before next summer. I'm very particular about who Id want doing it and although I've begun researching East Coast specialists I haven't definitely decided on one as of yet.

Again, thanks for chiming in brother! Very helpful!
   
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10-04-2015, 09:37 PM

I thought the suicide inhibitors like adex and letro couldn't be taken at the same time? But aromasin and nolva were ok. That might be bro science that I picked up.


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10-04-2015, 09:55 PM

Here's the thing there is a lot of broscience, and in fact bro science is very crucial because there is not a lot of studies when it pertains to this lifestyle, there is a limited amount of medical journals and clinical studies and the vast amount that fall under the spectrum are conducted on rodents... so where does that leave us? In fact we are our very own clinical study... this is one big chemistry experiment! With that said I welcome bro science to a degree....

In regards to the question about running both concurrent, it can be done successfully at low dosages, and both of the compounds will not interact with one another because they both possessed different targeting properties.. one targeting the enzymes as the other targets the receptors!

And yes you can take a suicide inhibitor concurrently with tamoxifen, my physician prescribed me this after my gynecomastia operation... at low dosages, his protocol was targeting targeting targeting! Each compound plays a pivotal role... there's an expression that many people take lightly and that is - less can be more!

And this even applies with AAS when targeting ARs, whether they are mediators or non mediator compounds...
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10-04-2015, 10:08 PM

If you have "estrogen" induced gyno, you of course need to reduce estrogen. Both letro and nolva reduce estrogen. The reason nolva is popular in the treatment of breast cancer is the fact that it acts as an antagonist in breast tissue. The problem I have with it for bodybuilders is the fact that it 1-lowers igf and 2-it acts as an agonist in muscle and bone. Estrogen helps prevent muscle damage due to weight training, ie.less muscle growth. As you can see, this is great for women, not so great for bodybuilders. Letro on the other hand is a prescribed treatment for reducing male gynocomastia. The problem is the regurgitated information on the doses. Clinically it has been shown to reduce estrogen by 98% at only .25mg/day. On cycle I would suggest a dose 2x that but still 5x less than some protocols. Either way, the longer you've had it, the less chance either will be effective. Another thing to remember is tapering the doses of either as there is a very high risk of estrogen rebound.
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10-05-2015, 10:01 AM

cant you make a transdermal paste with dmso and crushed up proviron? Apply on the nips and then wrap chest in saran wrap?? anyone ever tried it??
   
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10-05-2015, 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattG View Post
Letro is a very harsh drug, but it has shrunk gyno up for me several times. I got lumps a few years ago from PH's, before i was educated. I now have to live with them unless i spend the money on surgery. But with letro, i have them small enough they aren't visible at all...but, they are there. I am now terribly gyno sensitive, and tren, dbol, deca, npp, and anadrol aggravate my issue, and makes my lumps grow. Once they are slightly visible, i drop the compound thats causing the issue and start letro at 1.25mg ed. This has always fixed the problem and shrunk my lumps back to unoticable size in a few weeks. I tried the old protocol of ramping up to 2.5mg ed, but let me tell you i felt fucking horrible. Lost size and weight, joints hurt and cracked like a decrepit old man...lost all libido, gains stopped, and dried my whole body out including lips and skin. Fuck that! 1.25 mg a day is still as effective as 2.5 (for me) and the sides arent nearly as bad-however i still experience all those symptoms, just to a lesser degree. Some ppl like letro as an ai on cycle, but the dose needs to be kept very low. Right now i'm experimenting with letro on cycle for the first time (because i'm trying low dose anadrol) and it's going good. First i started with .625 mg a day but it was too much, so now i am just using that amount every 3 days. Normally i just use aromasin at 12.5-25mg ed depending on what i'm using, and that works great and i dont suffer from any miserable sides. I'd stay away from letro unless you're trying to fix a gyno issue, but thats just me.
When did you start that administration of letro as your AI for your cycle AI? I've heard many suggest starting it well in advance of taking your first oral to be safe.
   
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10-05-2015, 03:04 PM

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When did you start that administration of letro as your AI for your cycle AI? I've heard many suggest starting it well in advance of taking your first oral to be safe.
Actually about 2 months ago i had to use 1.25 ed to shrink lumps up on cycle..after 3 weeks they were gone and i dropped down to .625 ed for a few more weeks, so last couple i have been on .625 e3d. Will be dropping down to trt late next month
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10-05-2015, 05:52 PM

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Actually about 2 months ago i had to use 1.25 ed to shrink lumps up on cycle..after 3 weeks they were gone and i dropped down to .625 ed for a few more weeks, so last couple i have been on .625 e3d. Will be dropping down to trt late next month
So, if I understand correctly, you ran it as a therapy to shrink the gyno concurrently with a cycle? And you started your cycle the same day essentially as the 1.25 therapy? Oh, and what did it do to your libido torpedo?

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10-05-2015, 06:02 PM

No, i was on cycle already for a short period, and was kicking off with dbol...with test. I was using 25mg ed of aromasin, hoping that would prevent any issues, but unfortunately it didnt work. Around the 4 week mark lumps started hurting and swelling so i then hit letro...but in the future, if i do decide to try my "forbidden compounds", i will definitely start low dose letro a couple weeks beforehand. I think it would be a wise idea, letting the letro build up a bit prior to introducing something i know has given me problems in the past. But man, what a bitch it is finding the right dose. As i said, i'm only taking .625 e3d right now...and at the gym today while doing lying db extensions (db skullcrushers) my elbows cracked every single rep. No other symptoms, libidos perfectly fine, but it is still definitely affecting my joints. When i was at 1.25 i had a hard rime getting a boner.lol. Even couldnt get it up once for sex with the wife one time even tho i took cialis. Pretty damn embarrassing and dissappointing.
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10-05-2015, 10:01 PM

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No, i was on cycle already for a short period, and was kicking off with dbol...with test. I was using 25mg ed of aromasin, hoping that would prevent any issues, but unfortunately it didnt work. Around the 4 week mark lumps started hurting and swelling so i then hit letro...but in the future, if i do decide to try my "forbidden compounds", i will definitely start low dose letro a couple weeks beforehand. I think it would be a wise idea, letting the letro build up a bit prior to introducing something i know has given me problems in the past. But man, what a bitch it is finding the right dose. As i said, i'm only taking .625 e3d right now...and at the gym today while doing lying db extensions (db skullcrushers) my elbows cracked every single rep. No other symptoms, libidos perfectly fine, but it is still definitely affecting my joints. When i was at 1.25 i had a hard rime getting a boner.lol. Even couldnt get it up once for sex with the wife one time even tho i took cialis. Pretty damn embarrassing and dissappointing.
Appreciate you taking the time to answer my 101 questions bro!

I just started my dosage tonight. I did the .625 mgs for my first dose. I should know if it helps soon enough. The past week has been hell on my nips and that's w taking 50 Mgs of nolvadex daily. New cycle will be coming soon. Like as in the second that shit hits my mailbox I'll be running naked with a needle for the box
   
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10-06-2015, 05:48 AM

My chest is driving me crazy!!! I literally want to rips my nipples off with pliers.

Started the letro last night at .625. No relief. Took another 1.25 this morning upon waking. Itching hasn't even subsided and I'm at complete rest. It is utter torture.

I don't know how quick this stuff takes to work, but aromasin would take the edge off in an hour or two.
   
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10-06-2015, 05:52 PM

I understand that it can take a while for this stuff to work, but why is it after taking two doses that I feel the sides in my joints but my chest is still driving me crazy?

I'm about to say fuck this and go back to aromasin. At least that shit works within the hour. I've having these chest symptoms for days and can't take it much longer.
   
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10-06-2015, 06:07 PM

Doesnt work instantly bro. Takes me at least 5 days before i notice any decreasing pain or sensation in my nips. Takes a week plus to start shrinking tissue. I know some will disagree with this, but i have done it several times...try taking 12.5 ed aromasin at the same time as letro. If aromasin gives you quick relief, you could use that for a week while the letro builds in your system. After that taper the aromasin off gradually over the course of another week and continue on with just letro . But you must realize, you risk completely crushing your estrogen by doing this. Not good using 2 ai's at the same time. But if you're suffering it might be worth a shot. And i always introduce aromasin at the end of my letro use as well. I tried slowly tapering down off of letro by itself over a 2 week period, and i ended up getting rebound gyno. Just totally fucking sucked. So i hit letro again for a few weeks and shrunk them back up, then as i tapered down i slowly tapered up aromasin...problem solved. All i know is this...we're fighting a miserable battle brother. Surgery is the only thing thats gonna fix our problem. Look at all the shit you have to go thru right now. All this shit here is no damn fun at all.lol. But, unfortunately i am poor and dont have 5 grand to spend on it...so it is what it is i suppose


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10-06-2015, 07:00 PM

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Doesnt work instantly bro. Takes me at least 5 days before i notice any decreasing pain or sensation in my nips. Takes a week plus to start shrinking tissue. I know some will disagree with this, but i have done it several times...try taking 12.5 ed aromasin at the same time as letro. If aromasin gives you quick relief, you could use that for a week while the letro builds in your system. After that taper the aromasin off gradually over the course of another week and continue on with just letro . But you must realize, you risk completely crushing your estrogen by doing this. Not good using 2 ai's at the same time. But if you're suffering it might be worth a shot. And i always introduce aromasin at the end of my letro use as well. I tried slowly tapering down off of letro by itself over a 2 week period, and i ended up getting rebound gyno. Just totally fucking sucked. So i hit letro again for a few weeks and shrunk them back up, then as i tapered down i slowly tapered up aromasin...problem solved. All i know is this...we're fighting a miserable battle brother. Surgery is the only thing thats gonna fix our problem. Look at all the shit you have to go thru right now. All this shit here is no damn fun at all.lol. But, unfortunately i am poor and dont have 5 grand to spend on it...so it is what it is i suppose
Yeah, I understand man. I knew it was gonna take a while and am generally very patient, but when you have that internal itching that shit will drive anyone mad lol. You know!


Im actually out of aromasin but will have more in two days. Supplier was temporarily out when I placed this letro order which I received yesterday and didn't really think of ordering anymore was necessary since I've been off cycle for months and doin fine.

I hope to get the surgery sometime in the near future. Just need to find a reputable specialist near the baltimore/DC area or even deleware. Would prefer a personal recommendation for something this serious!

Thanks again brother!
   
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10-07-2015, 05:20 PM

You guys weren't kidding...this shit does suck(harsh). I've taken two doses. One @ .625 & another at 1.25. Haven't taken any in about a day and a half now. Mood is down, achy as hell, just feel like dick! Workouts are not fun. Chest is still itchy though.

Alright, rant is over. I'll put s tampon in now and mend my bleeding vagina.
   
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