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Why I think low T cycles are better
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Talking Why I think low T cycles are better - 02-20-2016, 06:34 PM

Ok, so I think it was about two years ago when the discussion of low T high Tren cycles first begun in forums. Most who tried this noticed fewer sides when they tried this. The concept was that Tren has a higher affinity for binding to receptors then Test so the T floated around longer. I am no biochemist so I have no freakin idea if it's true or not. However, it did get me thinking about other AAS combos and using the same methodology.

So, after some thought and experimentation I came to the conclusion that in many if not most cases that low T cycles are better than the alternative. Ok, Hawk get on with it already...well, it's really kind of simple and it comes down to the Anrogen/Anabolic ratio. The A/A ratio is simply a guide to rate synthesized steroids as they compare to natures own Testosterone.

Testosterone is the standard with androgen/anabolic ratio of 100/100. Androgen as it applies in this case to the those things related to male sexual characteristics. Basically sides you don't like or want. Anabolic well you know what that means. So, they take another compound and simply compares to tried and true Testosterone. Let's take Deca and NPP and see how they stack up. Well they have an androgen ratio of 37 which is 2/3s less than T. It has an anabolic ration of 137 which is obvious higher than T.

So, which compound do you want to take more of? Well if I want more muscle with less sides I choose deca or npp. Now, let's look at tren and see how it stacks up. It has a ratio of 500/500. Five times the muscle building power but 5 times the sides as well. No wonder this stuff messes with you. That being said, you will get more gains on a low T high Tren cycles then with the traditional high T cycle. It stands to reason that 600mg EW of Tren is going to give you nearly the same sides as 900mg EW . So why not just keep the T low and use more tren if you are going to get killed by sides anyway?

Now, this is just my thinking and opinion but I do believe while it is simple it makes a whole lot of sense. If you differ or have some other insights I would enjoy hearing them as well as your reasoning.

Parting thought...anavar has a ratio of 322/24. So, it's nearly 3 times as anabolic as Test! However, most people do not use enough to get decent results. But, what if one was to use 100 or even 200 mg ED? I don't know, but I think it's an interesting idea though.

Thoughts?

Hawk
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02-20-2016, 10:44 PM

This could be a good discussion but, I'm too tired to think it right now. Maybe someone else will get it going.
   
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02-20-2016, 11:08 PM

what abt high Mast/ Low T? since MAst has always been referred as a safer version of Tren.
   
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02-21-2016, 08:27 AM

I'm a believer in the low Test, higher Tren cycles. My first run with Tren was rough. The sides were too much for me after a few weeks and I had to abandon ship. The anxiety was the worst part.

Since then I've run Tren several more times, and I've found that the lower I go with my Test, the better my results are. Fewer sides effects, better fat burning and recomposition, and more muscle as well. I've gone over a gram of Tren Ace per week, just to see how high I could go before it got to be too much. Even at a gram a week the sides were minimal. A little bit of insomnia, I got warmer when I slept, and I had some issues with cardio but that is easily fixed with Nasacort. The anxiety never came back, the heartburn went away, no sexual issues, and I've never recovered from workouts faster. not that I would recommend running a gram of Tren to anyone, I simply wanted to see what I could handle. It was issue free enough for me that I stayed on Tren at at least 400mg per week for over a year straight.
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02-21-2016, 11:33 AM

Cause people tell me what sides they get from tren that are so bad? I run 100mg ed of ace. Either all the shit i've taken sucks...which i doubt. Or people re over hyping this. I can never do low test with npp or tren. I can't recover and hack through my long training sessions.


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02-21-2016, 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by psych View Post
Cause people tell me what sides they get from tren that are so bad? I run 100mg ed of ace. Either all the shit i've taken sucks...which i doubt. Or people re over hyping this. I can never do low test with npp or tren. I can't recover and hack through my long training sessions.
I think everyone is different when it comes to Tren sides. Some of us are more sensitive to them than others. No different than some are more sensitive to estrogen conversion from Test. I don't think it's anything to do with the quality of the gear or anything being overhyped, it's just down to individuality.
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02-21-2016, 01:39 PM

I agree with the low T and higher "other "compounds theory". Speaking of Tren sides, I started a Test-P/mast/Tren ace compound (with low T) about 3 weeks ago, for the first time I was walking up a small flight of stairs and POW out of breath I literally could not "walk and talk". Is this common? and does Nasacort (at what dosage) help with this.?
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02-21-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerjockey View Post
I agree with the low T and higher "other "compounds theory". Speaking of Tren sides, I started a Test-P/mast/Tren ace compound (with low T) about 3 weeks ago, for the first time I was walking up a small flight of stairs and POW out of breath I literally could not "walk and talk". Is this common? and does Nasacort (at what dosage) help with this.?
It is normal for a lot of guys. Tren is known for causing difficulties with cardiovascular activities. It basically causes an allergic reaction in the respiratory system that makes exchanging air more difficult. The Nasacort counteracts the irritant that causes the allergic reaction. Just use it according to the manufacturers recommendations. It works well for most people.


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02-21-2016, 02:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Lil' Sully View Post
I think everyone is different when it comes to Tren sides. Some of us are more sensitive to them than others. No different than some are more sensitive to estrogen conversion from Test. I don't think it's anything to do with the quality of the gear or anything being overhyped, it's just down to individuality.
X2 and Tren is the biggee that effects all folks different and lets not overlook dosage. Some folks don't use enough to tempt fate so the sides are minimul regardless (probably 500 to 600). I for one have never felt anxiety, but never sleep at night etc...it's all individual.

When it comes to T all I ever get is water gain. My brother breaks out like a mother...everyone is different. Yet, my point remains that most AAS were designed as an alternative to Test so patients would not have the harsh sides. So, why not use the more anabolic compound?

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02-21-2016, 03:07 PM

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Originally Posted by d2r2ddd View Post
what abt high Mast/ Low T? since MAst has always been referred as a safer version of Tren.
Masteron isn't very strong. It has a anabolic rating of 62 and an adrogen of only 25 compared to test. So overall the ratio is better, but it only packs 1/2 the punch mg to mg of T. In this case if muscle building was the goal then running T higher might be the better choice besides using another anabolic.

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02-21-2016, 04:17 PM

Anxiety is horrible, who ever has it will attest to this. I would rather have cavities filled with no novacaine.

I have been reading that gw501516 works reallly well to combate tren sides and is greqat for fat loss.


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02-21-2016, 11:48 PM

I don't think it would work as well as the Nasacort. The difficulty breathing is actually from swelling in the respiratory tract, lungs, bronchioles, etc. It's literally restricting the flow of air in and out of your lungs. By relieving the allergic reaction you increase air flow and oxygen exchange. GW works in a completely different mechanism. Plus we know Nasacort is safe. No one has ever accused it of causing cancer.
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02-22-2016, 02:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Sully View Post
I think everyone is different when it comes to Tren sides. Some of us are more sensitive to them than others. No different than some are more sensitive to estrogen conversion from Test. I don't think it's anything to do with the quality of the gear or anything being overhyped, it's just down to individuality.
Ohhh got ya. I just hear people talk about how bad their tren was and I'm like wtf were you taking?!?! I often just tell people just take NPP.
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02-22-2016, 07:17 AM

I have found that the older I get, the less I am able to tolerate tren. I have also found that if you are in decent cardiovascular shape already, the tren cycles are alot easier. The biggest side for me is the lack of sleep on tren. Since I know what to expect I simply deal with the cough and lack of sleep and don't worry to much about it.

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I think low Test can be a good thing, but you should keep in mind your age and natural levels as to what dosage is low. If you're 45 and your low dose is the same as someone 25, you will not feel the same.
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I can't wait to try the tren again with the low test. Tren used to kill me - but Mabie with the test
Tren is incredible
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02-22-2016, 08:08 PM

I had to drop the tren part way thru my last cycle. In addition to chronic insomnia, I developed a case of 14-hour long hiccup bouts - which I was told was my particular systems response to an over production of stomach acid. Two weeks after I stopped tren, they ended. It was hell.

This cycle is combining Sus, Primo, and dBol. Looking forward to this stack's sides! LOL
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02-22-2016, 08:22 PM

My first batch of tren I made I started using without any test. I just didn't have any. I felt great on just 75mg of tren a day. A few weeks in I added prop and within days I felt bloated and sluggish. Interesting. My first dboll only cycle I felt great.
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02-22-2016, 09:19 PM

OK so this is what your saying and how I'm understanding in my little brain. So when running Tren and Test together they basically would be fighting for the same receptors. So with that being said, and Tren supposedly being 5x stronger than test, then in theory using less test would allow you to maximize your gains from the more abundant tren. I guess really if you weren't taking into consideration that everyone is different. Then really you could just use enough test for sexual function and grow like hell off just the tren.Right? See for me though I always have to run almost a 2 to 1 ratio of test to tren. It always seemed the worse the sides got from the tren the more I could control them by upping the test. Maybe I should of been doing the exact opposite and running almost no test. AAArrrggghhh. That just goes against everything I've known or thought I knew for like a decade of juicing. Hmmm well I know how my body works but I'm definitely not opposed to trying new ways of growing as long as I keep my T levels up enough not to loose libido....AR....
   
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02-22-2016, 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR-15 View Post
OK so this is what your saying and how I'm understanding in my little brain. So when running Tren and Test together they basically would be fighting for the same receptors. So with that being said, and Tren supposedly being 5x stronger than test, then in theory using less test would allow you to maximize your gains from the more abundant tren. I guess really if you weren't taking into consideration that everyone is different. Then really you could just use enough test for sexual function and grow like hell off just the tren.Right? See for me though I always have to run almost a 2 to 1 ratio of test to tren. It always seemed the worse the sides got from the tren the more I could control them by upping the test. Maybe I should of been doing the exact opposite and running almost no test. AAArrrggghhh. That just goes against everything I've known or thought I knew for like a decade of juicing. Hmmm well I know how my body works but I'm definitely not opposed to trying new ways of growing as long as I keep my T levels up enough not to loose libido....AR....
I don't think you're much different from me and most. We go on what the old timers tell us. And while that info is old it usually works pretty well. However, it's my body so I am always looking for what works best. If I try it and don't like it then I stop. I have found the low T (250-300mg) and higher anabolics work the best for me all around mainly cux high T makes me a puffer fish.

Hawk
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