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HCG (tee)
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HCG (tee) - 04-17-2005, 10:46 PM

Directed to tee, but welcome any and all input......


OK, I am in my 9th week of enanthate and wed I adde d-bol to my cycle to try to boost my gains again. I know you are thinking I should've held it for next cycle but to be honest with you I am Not ready to come off cycle. SO, I am gonna order some hcg. Now I noticed you told another fella to stay the hell away from it cause he didn't know enough about it. I am gonna order a 1500iu kit. I understant that the doses are only 500iu. What I need to know , is that the same as 1/ml ? And once I incorporate this into my cycle how often should I injest the 500iu? And is it also Intra Muscle ? I need to know how many 1500iu kits to order. I already have my Nolva and clomid, I'm just not ready to end cycle. Loving strength and gaining too much!!! I am reading up on swapping the types of juices to keep body reacting to longer cycles now....

Thanks

smikey
   
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wolfyEVH
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04-17-2005, 10:48 PM

i personally wouldnt even use HCG.......some find they need, lots of guys i know only use nolva and clomid and they're fine
   
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04-17-2005, 11:47 PM

tests to prove that they fully recovered medically?


on every other site i've seen they fully suggest hcg usage as a necessity to post cycle therapy.
   
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tee
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04-17-2005, 11:49 PM

Im not good at math, but the HCG I use is 10,000 USP type that comes with 10ml of bacteriostatic water. I mix the whole 10ml vial of bacteriostatic water into it. I take anywhere from 250 to 500IUs two times weekly. That means a u-100 insulin syringe showing 100 units, then each 25 units would be 250iu's.The injections are subQ and done with the insulin pin. You can take them IM with a regular pin, but why build up unnecessary scar tissue. Since you havent been taking it throughout the cycle, the next best thing is to take it towards the end of the cycle. Here is an article to help you understand it better.


Hcg Faq

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is HCG?- hcg stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin.

Where does hcg come from?-it is extracted from the urine of pregnant women.

Is hcg a scheduled medication?- no, its similar to clomid and liquidex as far as US laws go. However you would need a prescription to purchase legally in the US, and this is one of those ďgrey areasĒ

What is hcg normally used for?-it is used to help females get pregnant, and can be used to stimulate testosterone production in males.

How does hcg work?- hcg mimics LH(leutenizing hormone). The presence of LH causes the Leydig cells in the gonads to produce testosterone. This effect also restores the size of the testes rather quickly if they were suppressed from a cycle.

Can I use hcg only after a cycle?-no you shouldnít. it is better than nothing, but clomid or nolva are far better plans. Since hcg mimics lh, your body wont begin producing its own lh, as it sees no need to because test levels are high. You stop the hcg, your balls stop making test until your body begins producing adequate levels of its own lh, and that may take a while if you donít use clomid or nolvadex to stimulate lh production.

Can hcg be used w/out steroids to boost test production above baseline?- yes. It is not recommended however. Continued use of hcg will desensitize the leydig cells to lh, meaning once you stop using the hcg as an artificial lh, you will crash bad. The natural lh production once restored by using nolvadex or clomid, may not be as effective as it once was. to boost natural test above baseline, anastrozole, nolvadex and clomid are better choices.

What should hcg be used for?-hcg is commonly used by bodybuilders on either very heavy or very long cycles, when the hpta gets severely suppressed. Although hcg can be used in almost any cycle, the benefits are most pronounced on heavy/long ones.

How long does hcg boost testosterone for?- hcg can boost testosterone for up to 5 days following the last dose, although the drugs halflife is very short, and its no longer active at that point.

Can hcg cause gyno?-Yes. Estrogen is elevated by two ways from hcg use. Primarily from the sharp rise in testosterone, which allows more testosterone to aromatize to estrogen. Secondly hcg can cause a small amount of estrogen to be produced which is not from the result of aromatizing, and this is the reason that a combination of an anti aromatose such as liquidex/arimidex/letrozole and a estrogen receptor blocker such as nolvadex are ideally used. The nolvadex may also offer some additional benefit to help avoid a negative estrogen feedback to the hpta during hcg therapy, which would otherwise slightly lessen the effectiveness of the therapy.


Heres a typical example of a proper post cycle recovery including hcg. Dosage will vary depending on how suppressed your hpta is, and how well you respond to hcg, but this is normally a good starting point, more is not necessarily better. Some will respond better to 750iu ed or even 1000iu ed, actually everyone will respond better to 1000iu ed, but we donít want to desensitize the leydig cells, which would make clomid treatment less effective. Everyone is different, start at 500iu ed, and if after 5-6 days your balls arenít noticeably bigger and hanging lower, consider a slightly higher dose. I know I respond very well and quickly to small doses, but that may not be the case for you.

**********

Find out when you would normally start your clomid therapy.

Inject hcg 500iu everyday, either intramuscular or sub q, for 10-14 days. Place the hcg so that the LAST hcg shot is about 5 days before clomid therapy starts.

Run clomid like you normally would, which is usually 3-4 wks of clomid therapy in a descending dose. Using 300mg clomid the first day is a good idea.

Anti estrogens should definitely be used during during hcg therapy. Both an anti aromatose such as liquidex, arimidex, or letrozole, as well as nolvadex ideally should be used, although just nolvadex can suffice, as well as just an anti aromatose. However everyone is different when it comes to sensitivity to estrogen induced gyno. A combo of both types of anti eís is best and ensures your safety from gyno.

An example cycle:

Wks 1-10 enanthate 1000mg wk
Wks 1-12 tren 100mg ed
Wks 5-12 winstrol 50mg ed.
Wks 1-16 liquidex 1mg ed

Last shot of enanthate is day 70.
Last shot of winny and tren are day 84.
Hcg is run days 72-82, 500iu ed.
Nolvadex is run 10mg ed days 72-87.
Clomid is run on days 87-108.

Some may prefer to use nolvadex in place of clomid, but thatís not the discussion here, although its ok to do so. Some may also prefer to use higher doses and/or longer clomid therapy, which is also ok.

By using the proper combo of post cycle therapy drugs along w/ proper placement and timing, chances of an excellent recovery are maximized. You keep more gains, and you donít crash hard.

Clearance times for various AS for clomid therapy to begin:

Anadrol50/Anapolan50.......8-12 hours
deca Durobolan................3 weeks
Dianabol.........................4-8 hours
Equipoise........................17-21 days
Finajet/Trenbolone............3 days
Primobolan Depot..............10-14 days
Sustanon.........................3 weeks
Test Cypionate.................2 weeks
Test Enthenate/Testoviron..2 weeks
Test Propionate.................3 days
Test Suspension................4-8 hours
Winstrol...........................8-12 hours

If your taking substantial doses ex. 1g+ of test, you may wish to add 1/3 extra time to the above clearance times before starting clomid. This is optional.
   
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04-17-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugie82
tests to prove that they fully recovered medically?


on every other site i've seen they fully suggest hcg usage as a necessity to post cycle therapy.

From what I have seen recommended, they say dont use it unless your cycle is 8 weeks or longer. I dont have any studies to back this info, just word of mouth....and we all know talk is cheap! lol
   
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04-18-2005, 01:12 AM

What about taking HCG shot mid cycle to keep u'r natural test levels normal?
   
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04-18-2005, 10:04 AM

There is so many ways HCG can be taken. Some take high doses just towards the end of the cycle, some take it for 2-3 weeks in the middle, and then at the end, and some take it in low doses throughout the cycle, and some don't take it at all. The only reason I recommend taking it throughout the cycle is because an HRT doctor has said his clients recovered better doing it that way. He had the means to do regular blood testing on them. Is his way the best? I cant say for sure. I have taken it at the end, as well as throughout the cycle. I honestly can't say I noticed any difference. I did not have blood testing done though to monitor which way was better for me.
   
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04-19-2005, 12:20 AM

Thanks for the insight Tee, i'm probly going to do 2 weeks mid-cycle and see how that goes..
   
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