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Rep Ranges
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Rep Ranges - 12-06-2017, 10:30 AM

IMO it's 6 to 8 or 8 to 12 for optimum muscle hypertrophy.

6 to 8 for slow twitch, type II muscle fibers. 8 to 12 for the same targeted fibers it's just different for some body types. That's something that must be individually figured out. This is M.O on optimum mass training. I also feel that four to five excersizes per body part with a finished total around 16 to twenty sets is optimum. IMO you must fail the muscle totally with no forced reps in each set performed. The last set of every exercise should be a rest pause, burn down to absolute failure with as many partial reps that can be performed. Can higher reps achieve muscle hypertrophy? Of course. Is it much safer? Of course. But this is about the *Best way to grow*.

These are just my opinions on this. Not challenging anyone.

How have you guys found to be the best way to train for optimum mass?
   
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12-06-2017, 11:34 AM

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How have you guys found to be the best way to train for optimum mass?
Yes and no. Itís not so much about the rep range thatís employed, itís about the total amount of work done in the workout. Iíll define work really quick.

Work= weight x reps x sets

Work is cumulative, both for an entire session in the gym, and also over the course of a week or so, depending on how frequently you train.

One of the big advantages to tracking work in this way is that it lets you change the workout by doing either more or less reps, while still doing roughly the same amount of work, simply by varying the amount of weight used. Of course, the ultimate goal is not to do the same amount of work each day, but to increase it slightly each time. This is actually easier to do with lighter weights and higher reps, which is where the a lot of the value of high rep days comes in. One can structure the workout to be the same amount of work as a low rep day, but by adding in just 1-3 more reps in each set the total amount of work done in that workout is increased.

There are distinct advantages to doing both high, low and mid rep workouts. For an experienced, trained individual, the research definitely indicates that Daily Undulating Periodization is the optimum training regimen for both strength and hypertrophy. It constantly presents the body with a new stimulus that forces adaptation in the muscle fibers, which ends in hypertrophy and increased strength.

If I have time later today Iíll link a few studies and articles that explain it better/more thoroughly.


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12-06-2017, 12:02 PM

Type 1 fast twitch is responsible for carrying oxygen and endurance. Type 2 is for strength and mass. While your digging around google inquire about training type2 for BBing. You may be surprised?
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12-06-2017, 01:56 PM

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Type 1 fast twitch is responsible for carrying oxygen and endurance. Type 2 is for strength and mass. While your digging around google inquire about training type2 for BBing. You may be surprised?
I have, and itís not that simple. Perhaps you should dig up the biopsy studies that showed that the top level athletes in almost all sports, including bodybuilding, had pre***inantly type 1 muscle fibers.

And just for clarification, 20-25 reps hardly qualifies as endurance training. A few more reps at a lower weight doesnít suddenly become a completely different form of training that is focusing on a different type of muscle fiber. Itís still strength training, just with a modulated stimulus to force a slightly different adaptation in the body.


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12-06-2017, 03:12 PM

Hey I don't want to get in a pissing match with ya friend. I just don't agree with the above post about rep ranges. That's all.
   
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12-06-2017, 03:24 PM

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Originally Posted by Concreteguy View Post
IMO it's 6 to 8 or 8 to 12 for optimum muscle hypertrophy.

6 to 8 for (FAST) twitch, type II muscle fibers. 8 to 12 for the same targeted fibers it's just different for some body types. That's something that must be individually figured out. This is M.O on optimum mass training. I also feel that four to five exercises per body part with a finished total around 16 to twenty sets is optimum. IMO you must fail the muscle totally with no forced reps in each set performed. The last set of every exercise should be a rest pause, burn down to absolute failure with as many partial reps that can be performed. Can higher reps achieve muscle hypertrophy? Of course. Is it much safer? Of course. But this is about the *Best way to grow*.

These are just my opinions on this. Not challenging anyone.

How have you guys found to be the best way to train for optimum mass?
Sully, I made a correction in my OP.

Hey please go to YouTube and search "training type two, fast twitch muscle fibers". Please.....
   
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12-06-2017, 11:58 PM

I change all the time but usually in the 6-12 rep range. Been adding in more lower rep sets recently (5-8 reps). I usually up the weight and lower the reps as I go. Although last week started doing 5 sets of 5-8 reps all to failure. On the last set for deads I got 4 reps so knew it was time to finish.
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12-07-2017, 10:37 AM

I don't know how to copy and paste YT vids or I would bring over this stuff. It's got science and is really convincing.
   
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12-07-2017, 11:18 AM

Give it a chance before just beaming it guys.
   
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12-07-2017, 12:40 PM

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Hey I don't want to get in a pissing match with ya friend. I just don't agree with the above post about rep ranges. That's all.
Pissing match? Iím not sure why you would think that was happening. I thought we were having a civil discussion about a minor difference of opinion. It actually says quite a lot about a person that when someone else offers a different point of view, they automatically perceive it as some sort of adversarial confrontation.

The worst part is, you think Iím disagreeing with you, but Iím really not. Iím just suggesting that maybe thereís a little more to the equation. Type 1 and 2 muscle fibers is not the huge mitigating factor that athletes and trainers want it to be. Even the scientists that have done the studies have said that the whole type 1 & 2 issue has been blown out of proportion by the training community and isnít the silver bullet that they thought it was, initially.

If all you focus on is Mona Lisaís eyes, you miss a bunch of other important things in the painting.


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12-07-2017, 01:15 PM

Sully, I thought we were talking about training?lol

Hey on a lighter note, did you see the smiley face at the end of the post about not getting in a pissing match? That smiley face probably speaks volumes about me as well. Your not going democrat on me and insinuating micro aggressions are ya buddy?
   
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12-07-2017, 06:23 PM

I also change but most sets are over 10 reps for me. Pushing the weight too much never ends well for me. Chest, shoulders and back are closer to 10 reps. Arms and legs are higher and about 15 reps on average.
   
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12-07-2017, 07:08 PM

Ya, at my age I start getting the aches and pains as I shorten the rep range moving up in weight. For me it's about survival. I don't want any more injuries. I have torn a bicep, lower lat and the top of a tear drop.
   
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12-07-2017, 10:37 PM

Even though I know you’re not actually interested in information that doesn’t back up your position, I’ll leave this here for those that want to explore the topic a little more throroughly.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-fiber-type/
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12-08-2017, 04:37 AM

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Even though I know you’re not actually interested in information that doesn’t back up your position, I’ll leave this here for those that want to explore the topic a little more throroughly.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-fiber-type/
Good info. I personally have never gone by the tradtional rep ranges. As you know 1 size doesn't fit all and for me it's more about trying different systems to shock the muscles and keep training different. There is a place for all rep ranges.
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12-08-2017, 08:06 AM

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Even though I know youíre not actually interested in information that doesnít back up your position, Iíll leave this here for those that want to explore the topic a little more throroughly.

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/muscle-fiber-type/
You keep making assumptions and direct insults. Couldn't you have just posted this directly to the guys you think want to read it?

Hey, Happy Holidays Sully!!!
   
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12-08-2017, 10:40 AM

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As you know 1 size doesn't fit all and for me it's more about trying different systems to shock the muscles and keep training different. There is a place for all rep ranges.
This right here 100%.....


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12-08-2017, 05:04 PM

Sully I found this video to help make BOTH our points.
JM is parodyzing his reps and loads but keeps coming back to 8 reps as a base. I have also seen many vids were he's doing a zillion reps. But I don't think you can do this kind of thing as a staple in your training. Maybe you can? It's just not for me.

The point of my OP was to listen to other opinions of what works best for "them". Not a who's right or wrong. What I described is what works for me and why I believe it does. That's all. Would you like to describe a typical training session for yourself you think works best for you?


Last edited by Concreteguy; 12-08-2017 at 05:06 PM.
   
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12-08-2017, 07:42 PM

8 to 12 for me. With the occasional powerlifting routine added in just to change things.


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12-09-2017, 12:41 AM

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Sully I found this video to help make BOTH our points.
JM is parodyzing his reps and loads but keeps coming back to 8 reps as a base. I have also seen many vids were he's doing a zillion reps. But I don't think you can do this kind of thing as a staple in your training. Maybe you can? It's just not for me.

The point of my OP was to listen to other opinions of what works best for "them". Not a who's right or wrong. What I described is what works for me and why I believe it does. That's all. Would you like to describe a typical training session for yourself you think works best for you?

https://youtu.be/tE3rSKV96ow
I go where the science takes me. In my first post I talked about it. DUP, or Daily Undulating Periodization, is a training style that constantly changes the weight and rep ranges of each workout to keep the stimulus that the muscle experiences changing, which in turn causes the muscle to constantly be in a state of adaptation. That adaptation takes 2 forms, hypertrophy and strength, but those 2 are not mutually exclusive. There is a strong relationship between the 2.

My standard training routine changes frequently depending on my goals, or which body part Iím currently targeting for the most growth. Letís say for example that right now Iím trying to bring up my chest. The best way to do this is to increase the volume of chest work I do in a week.

Let me define a couple things for the sake of brevity before I lay it all out.

Low rep: 6-8 reps with enough weight that I can barely hit that rep range on the first working set, with 1 warm up set of very low weight to check form

Medium reps: 10-12 reps, same story on weight

High reps: 20-25 reps, same story on weight, warm up is usually only 15 reps at most

So here's what my routine would look like:

Day 1: Chest and triís medium rep
Day 2: Back and biís medium rep
Day 3: Chest and triís low rep
Day 4: Legs high rep
Day 5: Chest and triís high rep
Day 6: Back and biís low rep
Day 7: Chest and triís medium rep
Day 8: Legs low rep
Day 9: Chest and triís low rep
Day 10: Back and biís high rep
Day 11: Chest and triís high rep
Day 12: Legs medium rep
Day 13: Chest and triís medium rep
Day 14: Back and biís medium rep
Day 15: Chest and triís low rep

And just repeat as the pattern dictates. If you wanted to bring up your back instead of your chest, then the rotation would be:
Back, Chest, Back, Legs, and repeat following the pattern of low, mid and high rep days.

I donít take many rest days. Either as I need them or as my schedule dictates. My work shift is 24 hours long, and sometimes weíre running constantly for the entire 24 hours and a workout just isnít going to happen.

I also rotate the order of my workout as necessary to bring up weak lifts. If thereís a lift Iím struggling with, whether it be weight or form, Iíll move that lift to the very beginning of my workout so I can concentrate on it when my energy, focus and stamina are at their highest level. Once I make some progress on that lift and get it where I want it to be, I move it to a later part of the workout and move the next lagging lift to the front of the line. This also helps keep things from getting stale and repetitive.

Itís slightly more complicated than other routines, no doubt. But once youíve done it for a few months you get used to it and can track it from memory.

The key to the whole thing is to constantly be doing something slightly different than you did in your last workout. By changing the stimulus, you force the muscle to adapt, which will improve either strength or hypertrophy. Thereís also the whole supercompensation phase to take into account, but thatís a different conversation all together. I donít advocate that anyone do a bazillion reps, or that they do super high reps as the base of their entire training program.

Thereís also a certain amount of flexibility built into the routine I outlined. Letís say today last workout was high rep day, and today is supposed to be mid rep day. But, youíre feeling REALLY strong, and that tight cardio bunny on the elliptical gave you a big smile when you walked into the gym. You can change it up and make today low rep day, and just do mid rep day next workout. Sometimes your feeling it, or not, and this allows you to adapt the routine as you need to, within reason. Just donít go turning every day into low rep day, other wise youíre defeating the purpose.
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