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Maximizing Gains Before Increasing Dose
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Maximizing Gains Before Increasing Dose - 06-11-2018, 12:39 AM

This is the detailed discussion section so figured I'd ask here.

I've read for the past several years how guys change their protocol each time they blast or run a new cycle, but I never see guys (or gals) say they had a great run on their last cycle so they are repeating it this time to continue to make those gains. Does this just never happen or do people just not see similar great gains so they never bring it up, or is it just not exciting enough to post about?


A natural lifter has only their genetic levels of hormones to build off of and for them supposedly gains can be good for a solid few years before it really slows. If a cycle lasts a couple months how cam repeating the same amount for several runs not do similar in providing consistent gains without changing compounds or increasing? It's a superphysiologocal amount after all.
   
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06-11-2018, 02:11 AM

not exciting
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06-11-2018, 10:56 AM

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not exciting
If there are solid gains made isn't that exciting in and of itself?

How does the increase in lbm compare to the first time on the same protocol?
   
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06-11-2018, 06:50 PM

You should be changing your cycles up every 6 to 8 weeks. You want your receptors and metabolism to not get used to it so it continues to respond well. I don't know if there is science to back this up but all of your popular coaches will have you doing this for the same reason. When you do change your cycle up keep the values the same.
   
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06-11-2018, 07:23 PM

It's important to get what you can from any given dose. But don't think upping the dose will result in loads of gains as it doesn't always work that way. Diet and training should always be looked at first. For health get the most you can and rotate drugs and do the same total dose. But 500mg test is not the same as 500mg tren so sometimes total dose is not that important. There is nothing wrong with using the same doses later on as you can always improve diet and training.
   
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06-11-2018, 08:54 PM

So you can't for example run 500mg test for 3-4 12 week cycles with equal length breaks between and see decent gains from each of those cycles?

You have to either 1) change the drug; 2) increase the dose.

Has anyone ever some multiple cycles with the same drug at the same amount and seen progress, or is the change it or increase it common wis*** and practice?
   
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06-12-2018, 09:57 AM

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Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
So you can't for example run 500mg test for 3-4 12 week cycles with equal length breaks between and see decent gains from each of those cycles?

You have to either 1) change the drug; 2) increase the dose.

Has anyone ever some multiple cycles with the same drug at the same amount and seen progress, or is the change it or increase it common wis*** and practice?


I think you can with proper nutrition, food, and sleep. But the results will diminish each run.


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06-12-2018, 02:01 PM

I've run a few cycles of just test-e at 500mg. I would definitely say the first cycle was the "best" and past that I had a diminished run each time, but not diminished to the point that I felt the need to add a lot more in. Each time my goals were a bit different (sometimes size, sometimes cutting), and each time the cycle could get me to my goals, it just took longer, required more effort, more intensity, etc. If you plan to blast/cruise in the sport for a long time and want to make somewhat similar gains each time you blast, I think ultimately you'll have to look at at least somewhat increasing your dosage.

Of course, I'd exercise other avenues first...primarily consuming more food before upping your dose.
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06-14-2018, 12:31 AM

Thanks for the replies guys.

One more question: John Meadows has stated that blood levels are more important than dosage. Does anyone that has repeated cycles know if their blood levels were the same on each cycle run or if it went down as the body wasn't as sensitive (which would support changing it up to keep the body fresh).

Thanks.
   
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06-14-2018, 03:02 PM

small doses for me these days..
   
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06-29-2018, 07:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
So you can't for example run 500mg test for 3-4 12 week cycles with equal length breaks between and see decent gains from each of those cycles?

You have to either 1) change the drug; 2) increase the dose.

Has anyone ever some multiple cycles with the same drug at the same amount and seen progress, or is the change it or increase it common wis*** and practice?
I have even noticed better results with lower doses over the years. Drugs are very important but diet and to a much lesser degree training will dictate most of your results. Although I would not just use the same drug and the same dose over and over as the body responds to change. Try different things and rotate compounds every 8 weeks. So no you don't always have to keep upping the dose to get results.
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06-30-2018, 11:12 AM

I have repeated the same cycle before, and still gotten good results. I take cruise periods though, so when I do blast again I respond well to it.

I use moderate doses to grow, so when I ramp things up during a cut, my body tends to respond well, even if I repeat my last cutting cycle, because it's been 9-20 months since I last turned up the gas.


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06-30-2018, 05:24 PM

Quit fucking around and get a blood panel pulled. It's no fun but that's where the answers lie.
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07-23-2018, 10:31 AM

For anyone new I would recommend using low doses so you have lot's of room to increase the dose over time. That is the most sensible approach long term. Although you can't just keeping upping the dose forever. But starting low and rotating compounds at similar doses will yield good gains without needing to up the dose. Then when you up the dose that sets you up for more gains. Profit hit the nail on the head about diet though. I use less gear now then in the past and have gotten better results because my diet is more consistent. Drugs are just 1 part of the equation.
   
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07-23-2018, 05:28 PM

Well for me personally I'm only going to run orals for so long and for oils, other than test, eventually you stop getting results or at least the results diminish. In the case of tren the side effects get to be too much when I run it for too long. So in essence you're pretty much forced to change it up.

That being said I always start off with the same compounds on new cycles, test/tren/anavar. Then I play it by ear until my cycle is up even going back to the tren/var sometimes....
   
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07-23-2018, 08:48 PM

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Well for me personally I'm only going to run orals for so long and for oils, other than test, eventually you stop getting results or at least the results diminish. In the case of tren the side effects get to be too much when I run it for too long. So in essence you're pretty much forced to change it up.

That being said I always start off with the same compounds on new cycles, test/tren/anavar. Then I play it by ear until my cycle is up even going back to the tren/var sometimes....
I have also noticed I don't get the same response from lower doses of certain compounds like I used to. So I dose higher at times but usually side effects become an issue. That's why all the posts about starting low and being sensible are the smart thing to do. I moved up in dose fairly quickly and I didn't want to go higher so if anything have come down in dose over the last few years.
   
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07-24-2018, 05:56 AM

I've run the same protocol on several occasions and I've always had nice gains, but I don't run shit all year long either. You'll get 100 different answers by 100 different people. CG is right. The true answers for each individual will be what the blood work says.
   
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07-24-2018, 04:27 PM

Are you still natural? Have you used anything? If you are still natural I would get blood work done to see where you are at. Use that blood work as a base. You don't need to keep increasing your dose to gain. There are lot's of factors involved with your training and diet being the 2 main ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
This is the detailed discussion section so figured I'd ask here.

I've read for the past several years how guys change their protocol each time they blast or run a new cycle, but I never see guys (or gals) say they had a great run on their last cycle so they are repeating it this time to continue to make those gains. Does this just never happen or do people just not see similar great gains so they never bring it up, or is it just not exciting enough to post about?


A natural lifter has only their genetic levels of hormones to build off of and for them supposedly gains can be good for a solid few years before it really slows. If a cycle lasts a couple months how cam repeating the same amount for several runs not do similar in providing consistent gains without changing compounds or increasing? It's a superphysiologocal amount after all.
   
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08-14-2018, 10:24 PM

I honestly didn't notice that much difference when I jumped up in dose a few years back. I doubled my max dose from one cycle to the next and I experienced more results but a lot more side effects. As long as you have a solid base of drugs I would put most of your effort into your diet and training as that is what will change you the most. I agree with the above about starting low so you have room to up the dose slowly cycle to cycle.
   
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