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proviron?
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proviron? - 07-14-2005, 11:27 AM

would proviron be good to run with nolvadex and clomid for pct and if so how much of each?


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07-14-2005, 11:33 AM

proviron would be a good addition to pct due to its hardening effects. now that i think about it, i'd run it throughout as opposed to pct. run it along with l-dex(if your going to bloat bad) and just run nolva/clomid for pct.
   
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07-14-2005, 11:43 AM

how much of proviron? ...25mg ED?


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07-14-2005, 11:50 AM

25mg ed is right. but, i wouldnt worry about running them together. maybe run proviron during, and then stop and you can go wit clomid and nolva for pct. i say this because proviron works better than nolva. like abomb said, prov helps more with muscle hardness. and when it comes to the aromatization and gyno, nolva only helps cure the symptons while proviron helps cure the whole problems. so i would not use them both at same time.


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07-14-2005, 02:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasCreed
25mg ed is right. but, i wouldnt worry about running them together. maybe run proviron during, and then stop and you can go wit clomid and nolva for pct. i say this because proviron works better than nolva. like abomb said, prov helps more with muscle hardness. and when it comes to the aromatization and gyno, nolva only helps cure the symptons while proviron helps cure the whole problems. so i would not use them both at same time.
sorry TC but im going to interject here and suggest that proviron & nolva be run together during a cycle as anti-estrogen & anti gyno prevention. proviron by itself is not strong enough to completely stop estrogen production, it does a great job cutting way down on the conversion but will not completely eliminate it like a-dex or aromasin will. a good suggestion for during cycle anti estrogen prevention would be 25-50mg of proviron(depending on dosage of aromatizing products being taken and individuals suseptability to gyno) & 10-20mg of nolva.
if you tend to not get gyno syptoms even at higher dosages then the proviron would be sufficient but in this situation i would rather err on the safe side then rely on proviron by itself.
if anyone has a link to a study that shows proviron has been proven to be stronger that i am giving it credit please post it here because i would love to change my thinking as it would save a few $$$ to not have to take them both together. until then i will always take it with nolva during a cycle
   
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07-14-2005, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pincrusher
sorry TC but im going to interject here and suggest that proviron & nolva be run together during a cycle as anti-estrogen & anti gyno prevention. proviron by itself is not strong enough to completely stop estrogen production, it does a great job cutting way down on the conversion but will not completely eliminate it like a-dex or aromasin will. a good suggestion for during cycle anti estrogen prevention would be 25-50mg of proviron(depending on dosage of aromatizing products being taken and individuals suseptability to gyno) & 10-20mg of nolva.
if you tend to not get gyno syptoms even at higher dosages then the proviron would be sufficient but in this situation i would rather err on the safe side then rely on proviron by itself.
if anyone has a link to a study that shows proviron has been proven to be stronger that i am giving it credit please post it here because i would love to change my thinking as it would save a few $$$ to not have to take them both together. until then i will always take it with nolva during a cycle
thanks alot pin i will add it to the list i will be taking just test e. but i dont know how i am going to react because this is my first cycle ....better safe than sorry


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07-14-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cawb
thanks alot pin i will add it to the list i will be taking just test e. but i dont know how i am going to react because this is my first cycle ....better safe than sorry
you will find that taking proviron will make your test a little stronger due to the fact that the proviron will attach to the shbg(sex hormone binding globulon(sp?)). this allows more test to go into your system as usable product since normally the SHBG will attach to approximately 95-98% of the test in your body. that is why when they test for testosterone, they check bound & free test.

i hate to have a difference of opinion on any subject but that is not only the way others learn but also how i learn if my way of thinking is wrong.
dont mean to start anything with TC, but i just think it would be safer & better to run nolva & proviron together. this is also stated in william llewellyns anabolics books so i do have a source of reference concerning the issue.
   
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07-14-2005, 02:46 PM

no hard feelings, i have many articles on it. this is just one and its on our steroid profile webpage.


Proviron - Mesterolone Proviron is a synthetic, orally effective androgen which does not have any anabolic characteristics. Proviron is used in school medicine to ease or cure disturbances eaused by a deficiency of male sex hormones. Many athletes, for this reason, often use Proviron at the end of a steroid treatment in order to increase the reduced testosterone production. This, however is not a good idea since Proviron has no effect on the body's own testosterone production but-as mentioned in the beginning-only reduces or completely eliminates the dysfunctions caused by the testosterone deficiency. These are in particular impotence which is mostly caused by an androgen deficiency that can occur after the discontinuance of steroids, and infertility which manifests itself in a reduced sperm count and a reduced sperm quality. Proviron is therefore taken during a steroid administration or after discontinuing the use of the steroids, to eliminate a possible impotency or a reduced sexual interest. This, however does not contribute to the maintainance of strength and muscle mass after the treatment. There are other better suited compounds for this (see HCG and Clomid). For this reason Proviron is unfortunately cunsidered by many to be a useless and unnecessary compound.

You should be aware that Proviron is also an estrogen antagonist which prevents the aromatization of steroids. Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors (see Nolvadex) Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids. Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses the forming of estrogens no rebound effect occurs after discontinuation of use of the compound as is the case with, for example, Nolvadex where an aromatization of the steroids is not prevented. One can say that Nolvadex cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. For this reason male athletes should prefer Proviron to Nolvadex. With Proviron the athlete obtains more muscle hardness since the androgen level is increased and the estrogen concentration remains low. This, in particular, is noted positively during the preparation for a competition when used in combination with a diet. Female athletes who naturally have a higher estrogen level often supplement their steroid intake with Proviron resulting in an increased muscle hardness. In the past it was common for bodybuilders to take a daily dose of one 25 mg tablet over several weeks, sometimes even months, in order to appear hard all year round. This was especially important for athletes appearances at guest performances, seminars and photo sessions. Today Clenbuterol is usually taken over the entire year since possible virilization symptoms cannot occur which is not yet the case with Proviron. Since Proviron is very effective male athletes usually need only 50 mg/day which means that the athlete usually takes one 25 mg tablet in the morning and another 25 mg tablet in the evening. In some cases one 25 mg tablet per day is sufficient. When combining Proviron with Nolvadex (50 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day) this will lead to an almost complete suppression of estrogen.

The side effects of Proviron in men are low at a dosage of 2-3 tablets/day so that Proviron, taken for example in combination with a steroid cycle, can be used comparatively without risk over several weeks. Since Proviron is well-tolerated by the liver liver dysfunctions do not occur in the given dosages. For athletes who are used to acting under the motto "more is better" the intake of Proviron could have a paradoxical effect. The most common side effect of Proviron-or in this case, secondary symptom- is in part a distinct sexual overstimulation and in some cases continuous penis erection. Since this condition can be painful and lead to possible damages, a lower dosage or discontinuing the compound are the only sensible solutions. Female athletes should use Proviron with caution since possible androgenic side effects cannot be excluded. Women who want to give Proviron a try should not take more than one 25 mg tablet per day. Higher dosages and periods of intake of more than four weeks considerably increase the risk of virilization symptoms. Female athletes who have no difficulties with Proviron obtain good results with 25 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day and, in combination with a diet, report an accelerated fat breakdown and continuously harder muscles.

Proviron is one of the very few steroid hormones which is still sufficiently available. The brand name Proviron costs about $35 in Germany and contains fifty 25 mg tablets. Vistimon by Jenapharm costs $ 14 per box and is packaged in two push-through strips of 10 tablets each. Proviron by Asche contains 30 dragees and costs $20.. As one can see all German manufacturers charge about $70 for one 25 mg Mesterolon tablet. This is similar to the generally observed price of $ 1 per tablet on the black market. Since the Spanish and Mexican Proviron are less expensive than the German Proviron (all compounds are by Schering) they are more readily available on the black market. The original price for 20 tablets in Spain, for example, is $ 3.60. Depending on the country of origin Proviron is packaged differently. The German Proviron is offered in small glass vials while the Spanish, Greek, and Mexican versions are included in push-through strips. However, all Proviron tablets have one thing in common: they are all indented and on the back have the stamp AX,surrounded by a hexagon. So far there are no fakes available of either Proviron or its generic compounds.


that being said, i use to not be gyno prone till after cycles, so proviron was sufficient, but to each his own.


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07-14-2005, 02:50 PM

if you read the whole description is goes to say proviron would be better, but everybody reacts different. but towards the middle it does saying using both helps as well. but it wont hurt you to use just one as well, plus it saves money.


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07-14-2005, 02:52 PM

thanks for the article TC but even in there they agree with me as per this part i copied from it at the end of one of the last paragraphs:
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When combining Proviron with Nolvadex (50 mg Proviron/day and 20 mg Nolvadex/day) this will lead to an almost complete suppression of estrogen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
it almost seems like they say you can use it by itself but throw that statement in at the end of the paragraph as a sort of disclaimer just in case you use it alone and get gyno symptoms LOL
   
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07-14-2005, 02:53 PM

see i did read the whole article
   
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07-14-2005, 02:55 PM

thats what i was saying, it says its better but just in case use both and you'll be fine.


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07-14-2005, 03:02 PM

damn TC that was a little bit of a read but i needed that info so thanks alot bro i have nolva and clomid on the way with my test e cycle i think this will do , but with all the new info i will be sure to get proviron on my next cycle


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07-15-2005, 10:04 AM

so do you think this would be a true statement....

.25-.5mg arimidex = 25-50mg proviron plus 10-20mg nolvadex?
   
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