Homebrew impure non steroidal powder?

Was told to post this here from Pro Muscle

Background: I have been trying to lower myostatin for years trying all types of things such as Shrna, follistatin, cdna, megadose HDACs, HMB, Broccoli, mustard seeds, humanofort etc. to no avail.

Study:
I actually read a post of mine years back about EGCG and a pubmed study showing that i EGCG (from green tea) inhibits Smad3 and promotes Smad7 signalling. From what I understand myostatin exerts it's negative effect on muscle growth via Smad3 signalling, and Smad7 actually inhibits myostatin activity.

Problem:
Back then (2010) I gave up due to the fact that oral bioavailability was low and the amount needed would be toxic. I would need about 4 grams orally of pure EGCG each day.

Solution:
I never considered home brewing and just recently read up on it. I was always scared of infection but learned from my readings here as long as you are somewhat clean there will be no problems. Heck rec users use cigarette filters and cotton.

So now I thought why not make an injectable. I would only need about 400mg a day.

Questions:
Is finding out the concentration just trial and error? I know EGCG compared to testosterone has a high molecular weight and high melting point.
But Testosterone which is non polar can still be made in high concentrations by some of the vets here. I would need to get 100-400 mg/ml. I only know once place that sells it and at only 10mg/ml. Any advice on how to brew this stuff?

The best I can find is powders at 50% purity of EGCG. The other compounds seem to be tolerable in the dosage needed. Does anyone see any harm in this? As long as the powder in run though a .22 whatman to remove the bacteria and small particles would this be fine? If you google EGCG and look at the labels, I do not see any harmful or fatal amounts of substance to inject.

Any comments? I can log this if it interests anyone. I am surprised this has not been done and leads me to ask here to see if I am missing something. I am thinking even if it doesn't work it can make an amazing fat burner.

Thanks for reading the long post.

solegenius said:

Seems quite risky. Solubility looks to be poor in an oil suspension and might crash. And even in water or ethanol it's 20mg/ml. I'd also be concerned what that other 50% is.

Click to expand...

Well I found a place that can sell 90% EGCG.

Is it possible using any type of solvent or PEG to get a concentration to even 100mg/ml?

I was even thinking of a transdermal carrier but since EGCG has a high molecular weight, I would never be sure the true bio availability.

Is this something that can't be done? I was hoping to test the EGCG and myostatin theory.

Ironbuilt said:

What is egcg?. So u are trying to homebrew myostatin?. Please.tell me you work in a lab and not just doing kitchen sink chemistry.. why not buy premade?

Click to expand...

Egcg is not myostatin. It is an antioxidant that helps lower myostatin. If you can find me a pre made, I am sold. Only one place that I know of sells it and at 10 mg/ml. I would need at the very least 100 mg/ml.

I would need 4 g pure egcg for the dose needed orally. The problem is it is toxic at doses above a gram. I can try using acetic drinks for better absorption but that is up in the air.

Injectable dose I would only need 400 mg a day which is way below the toxic threshold and avoids first pass.

Transdermal could be an option but it is above the recommended size for great absorption, so dosing will be too inaccurate.

Honestly I never did home brew and would probably pay a source to do it. Any takers? I just want to make sure it is possible as most people just memorize the how but have no clue of the why.

Since one powder is not another and with no one ever home brewing this before, I thought this would be the place.

So far on all the boards I posted this I received no help; so I assuming this is above the novice home brewer or not possible.

nuclear2@12 said:

How would you know if it is effective? Are you going to run blood tests to see?

Click to expand...

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. If it is not possible to home brew this at a high enough concentration then this will be a no go.

Still hoping this can be done. I am all ears.

nuclear2@12 said:

A quick google shows that egcg melting point is close to that of winstrol and not far off (230c egec, 240c winstrol. give or take a few deg'c), so any recipe that holds winstrol should theoreticly hold egcg so imo you best be is to go for 50mg/ml max

Which is going to be a high guaiacol %+ eo carrier.

Anadrol is around the same melting point temp also, and I needed 40% guaiacol + eo carrier to hold 75mg/ml.

So 400mg per day your looking at a min of 8ml injections per day at 50mg/ml plus that's a lot of Whitey's Guide to Solvents, Compounds, Concentration, and Injection Painto pin in you per day, week, months etc.

Only other option is a suspension to use less guaiacol say 10-20% which I can imagine will sting like fuk 8ml of that per day.

Iv not used peg so can't comment on that, from what iv read its not a nice solvent to use, can cause swelling and high pain upto 5days after a single injection of it, plus its tissue distroying at the site apparently. Say you got it to hold 100mg/ml that's still nearly 30ml per week your injecting.


If it was me and I was going to attempt this experiment I'd go for an oil based suspension, low guaicol and less sting from water or peg brews. If you use MCT oil which is basicly synthol, you could use it as a seo also if your into that, if not then just use gso or eo.

Click to expand...

Hmm good advice. I see a lot of pro con here.

I don't know much about guaicol but I hear it is painful inject. Is guaicol viscious or would I need a good amount of BB to avoid crystals. Winstrol I hear is a painful inject and that is just 50mg/ml a day. I would be doing 400mg/ml a day.

The problem with MCT or any oil is the quantity and the pin size. I can imagine I will run out of injection sites real quick with that many mls of oil and a 25g. 2ml used to be a stretch. Also keep in mind the highest purity I can find is 90%. Most places are at 50%. So I will need a larger amount of ml a day.

I don't mind the initial sting. I just don't want bruising and running out of sites. Water based would be ideal for the quantity and the smaller pin size but I can see myself being a pin cushion. Would a suspension with low guaicol and high poly80 alleviate some of the pain? Problem with water based and pins and I hear water based is a much higher risk of infection?

Any other suggestions? Ive seen some people make 650mg/ml test e painless.

I can also see this getting expensive as with the amount of mls needed I would probably either ask a lab (if they do such a thing) or a reputable source. I would rather leave this to the pros as risk of infection increases with each ml daily.

nuclear2@12 said:

Test'e is painless because its hard to crash because its melting point is about 30c so you can make high mg/ml test'e also eq and deca, but not tren'e, mast.e which is about 190c and winstrol, anadrol around 240c same as eceg.

guaiacol is a super potent solvent stronger than bb.

But I still think you will struggle to get over 50mg/ml, you will need high solvents to make that into a solution anyway

Click to expand...

Only mentioned BB because I know it is vicious. I wasn't sure if the super solvent was like BA and quickly disperses causing pain.

The only solvent I know that holds a lot is peg but it can be ruthless on tissue.

EGCG seemed promising on not just myostatin but also health, wellness and fatloss. I guess this is why I never pursued this back in 2010 when I posted this on M&M

So it looks like this can't be done unless there is another way but oral will cause toxicity, trandermal poor due to weight and inject would be too many mls a day. From Nukes answer 50 mg/ml is a stretch and that is nowhere near the amount needed.

nuclear2@12 said:

Did you no egcg was in high concentrations in green tea op?

1gram of pure green tea had 180mg egcg, the standard dose of green tea is 3g per cup, so 8cups is over 4g egcg per day.

Matcha grade green tea is the standard to use I think that's classed as grade2, grade 1 is moe expensive.

Matcha green tea on ebay is around $50 for 600g

Or usda certified (dono what that means) 80g for $10


EGCG Content - USDA Study Reveals Healthiest Green Tea

Click to expand...

Not sure if you are looking at pure leaves but "Most of the research showing the health benefits of green tea is based on the amount of green tea typically consumed in Asian countries—about 3 cups per day (which would provide 240-320 mg of polyphenols). Just one cup of green tea supplies 20-35 mg of EGCG, which has the highest antioxidant activity of all the green tea catechins."

Price and quantity is not an issue here. I can get kilos of EGCG at a very low price. The problem is after bioavailability. Apparently only up to 10 percent of egcg gets into the blood after digestion and liver clearance.

Due to this there are studies showing toxicity in high doses.

"Green tea is good for you, but only if drunk in moderation. While the polyphenols in green tea are credited with preventing heart disease and cancer, it seems they can cause liver and kidney damage if consumed in very large quantities, a review of studies into the toxicity of polyphenols has shown.

"People shouldn't be too alarmed by this, but those taking supplements may experience problems," says lead author Chung Yang of Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.
He stresses that up to 10 small cups of green tea a day is fine. Problems are likely in people who take supplements, which can contain up to 50 times as much polyphenol as a single cup of tea.

Yang's review cites experiments in which rodents and dogs died from liver poisoning when given very large doses of polyphenols. He also reports cases of people with liver toxicity after overdosing on green-tea-based supplements. Their symptoms disappeared when they stopped taking the pills, only to return when they started taking them again (Chemical Research in Toxicology, vol 20, p 583).

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=1964900

Case reports on the toxic effects of green tea extracts in humans are also beginning to emerge. “To date, there have been nine anecdotal case reports of liver toxicity in humans associated with consumption of high doses [700–2,000 mg/day] of green tea from dietary supplements,” s

To get 400mg into the blood I would need close to 4 grams of EGCG a day. I am sure there will also be a lot of other polyphenols in the extract. Most tea extracts are 50% EGCG unless I go Teavigo which is 90%.

If it worked I would be taking this everyday for the rest of my life. As you can see injections of only 400mg a day would keep me well below the toxic dose and avoid first pass of the liver.