Thanks for replies. it was muscle mix by dash. Yeah, I have heard of smilax gold...not sure if I'm in the right forum for this...I was looking for something other than creatine to act as good as that stuff I mentioned. I guess hard work gets you gains, and I was looking for an easier route. I no longer go to gym. I haven't in years. I will do all kinds of various pushups, chins, pull ups, one arm dumbbell rows, dumbbell squats, calf raises, militaries etc. at home. For some reason, dumbbells cause me to get shoulder impingement in one arm. I do believe it is a very old injury flaring up. I got it because I thre in side and rear laterals. I never got into nor see why people even do upright rows. I do shrugs with dumbbells and it hits traps fine. Anywho, I no longer behind the neck anything. Of friend of mine's little brother went to jail for doing drugs etc. cam out and thinks he knows the world about body building. I am rambling on here, but wanted to say hi as I have lurked around here. I know the rela answer to my question...it's simply, getting back and doing heeavy basic compound excersises. I need incline barbell bench, deadlifts, squats back in my life. I bought the 25th anniversary of pumping iron and they all got back together for reunion and lou ferrigno went up to arnold and flexed his huge bi...arnold says with hands on face with accent..."omg, what's going on heeaa. you guys are all huge!!" That is the greatest muscle movie.