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slin dosage/activity question
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slin dosage/activity question - 08-27-2018, 08:00 AM

The more I research the more questions I have, which I suppose is a good thing

I know that the general rule of thumb is to consume 10g carbs per 1iu insulin. But I have been trying to find some clarification around that statement. I am asking specifically as it related to exogenous insulin.

Is it 10g carbs across the duration of the slin activity window?
*From the proposed protocols (for using it PWO) I have reviewed that would not be the case.
Is it then 10g carbs per hour of the insulin activity window?
Or 10g of carbs for each "peak" that the specific type of insulin is known to have?
Or something else?

I also realize that 10g is just a guideline, not a hard and fast rule, and that some might need more than that while others may end up needing less.

One other way to phrase my question is does the insulin get used/counter-acted by carbs? IE: Do they "cancel" each other out? Or will the body continue to shuttle glucose out of the blood so long as the insulin is active, regardless of how much glucose it has already removed from the bloodstream?

Or even another way to phrase it: Does the (glucose shuttling) reaction "consume" the insulin? Or does the reaction continue until the insulin is no longer active, with the active window being dictated by the insulin type elimination half life and not by the amount of carbs it has reacted with.

* However that does not seem to track, otherwise the posts about going hypo 2 hours post injection, due to not eating "another carb rich meal" seems to imply that the exogenous insulin is not consumed, but just present and active. Otherwise wouldn't the large carb heavy shake that most take immediately following an insulin shot have all but completely "consumed" the insulin from the injection?

According to the diabetes org web site:

"Generally, one unit of rapid-acting insulin will dispose of 12-15 grams of carbohydrate. This range can vary from 4-30 grams or more of carbohydrate depending on an individualís sensitivity to insulin. Insulin sensitivity can vary according to the time of day, from person to person, and is affected by physical activity and stress."

and

"Generally, to correct a high blood sugar, one unit of insulin is needed to drop the blood glucose by 50 mg/dl. This drop in blood sugar can range from 15-100 mg/dl or more, depending on individual insulin sensitivities, and other circumstances.""


I also believe the current PWO protocols utilize a more continuous feed of glucose and nutrients as working out will consume what we took in at the start of the workout, thereby needing to be replaced up until the insulin activity window ends. Does that make sense and is an accurate assessment?

Thanks!
   
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IGG
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08-27-2018, 11:51 AM

10 grams per iu across the window. Depending on your insulin sensitivity, you might need more or less carbs per iu
   
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08-27-2018, 11:57 AM

For example, I do 10 grams per iu. I take in about 150 grams of carbs during that window. I do 15 iu of humalog. 10 minutes after the shot of insulin, I drink a protein shake with 75 grams of carbs. About an hour later, I eat a whole food meal with another 75 grams of carbs. That covers the insulin window for me
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08-28-2018, 06:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGG View Post
For example, I do 10 grams per iu. I take in about 150 grams of carbs during that window. I do 15 iu of humalog. 10 minutes after the shot of insulin, I drink a protein shake with 75 grams of carbs. About an hour later, I eat a whole food meal with another 75 grams of carbs. That covers the insulin window for me
Thanks, that is some good feedback, backed by personal experience!
   
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09-02-2018, 08:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGG View Post
10 grams per iu across the window. Depending on your insulin sensitivity, you might need more or less carbs per iu
Quote:
Originally Posted by IGG View Post
For example, I do 10 grams per iu. I take in about 150 grams of carbs during that window. I do 15 iu of humalog. 10 minutes after the shot of insulin, I drink a protein shake with 75 grams of carbs. About an hour later, I eat a whole food meal with another 75 grams of carbs. That covers the insulin window for me
x2

The timing can be very important as well. So someone else could do 75g and 75g 1 hour later and go hypo later on. Generally 10g per 1iu is a great starting point. As IGG posted some need more and some need less. It's best to be on the side of caution when first trying slin. I would start your insulin quite low and increase the dose over time.
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09-04-2018, 06:18 PM

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Originally Posted by odin View Post
x2

The timing can be very important as well. So someone else could do 75g and 75g 1 hour later and go hypo later on. Generally 10g per 1iu is a great starting point. As IGG posted some need more and some need less. It's best to be on the side of caution when first trying slin. I would start your insulin quite low and increase the dose over time.
Good point. I also forgot to mention that I use humalog IM post workout. It clears faster.
   
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Question 09-12-2018, 09:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGG View Post
For example, I do 10 grams per iu. I take in about 150 grams of carbs during that window. I do 15 iu of humalog. 10 minutes after the shot of insulin, I drink a protein shake with 75 grams of carbs. About an hour later, I eat a whole food meal with another 75 grams of carbs. That covers the insulin window for me

May I ask what your carb source is?
   
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09-12-2018, 11:07 PM

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Originally Posted by ASHOP View Post
May I ask what your carb source is?
Shake I use half hbcd half Allmax Carbion which is similar to
If I use all hbcd, I get hypo. I use hbcd from Gaspari and True Nutrition so I know it was a quality hbcd.

Meal after shake, white rice and canned pineapples in juice
   
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09-12-2018, 11:08 PM

Carbion is similar to Karbolyn
   
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09-18-2018, 11:01 PM

If using humalog I think having a steady supply of carbs is the best way to go about things. If I go too long in between shakes I go hypo even if I follow the 10g per 1iu rule.
   
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09-20-2018, 10:05 PM

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Carbion is similar to Karbolyn
I recently tried Carbion and it felt great. I wasn't a big fan of karbolyn as it bloated me when using larger amounts. Carbion is a blend of carbs and electrolytes which I digested well and it seemed to keep my energy levels up whilst training. I will buy it again.
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11-20-2018, 03:06 PM

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Originally Posted by odin View Post
I recently tried Carbion and it felt great. I wasn't a big fan of karbolyn as it bloated me when using larger amounts. Carbion is a blend of carbs and electrolytes which I digested well and it seemed to keep my energy levels up whilst training. I will buy it again.
I had been using Karbolyn and Karbolic (had a couple of deals on each and had stocked up earlier in the year). But I did notice I was more bloated after taking them while I worked out. It passed, but I still was not happy with it. I will give Carbion a try. You had no issues with keeping your blood glucose up with it (while taking slin)? I ask because it seems to have a mix of simple and complex carbs. Thanks!
   
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