BigBob
AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
- Nov 10, 2012
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Fact vs myth - liver toxicity of injectable orals
- Thread starter Enigmatic707
- Start date
Sully
AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
- Dec 3, 2012
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Wish I knew. Kidney efficiency, age, blood pressure maybe. Maybe the purity of the Tren raws matter. I'm just brain storming, though. Weird thing for me is, it didn't matter how much water I drank. Even at a gallon and a half a day it would still be a dark rust color, sometimes even approaching brown.
id be more concerned with effects on lipids. from my exp, orals... specifically superdrol, MESSED my lipids up bad
- Feb 7, 2013
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Ummm you're on my coast now- watch yourself I may just come down there and go hunting for swamp ape... You're Yetti no more- you're " Swamp Ape"
chrisr116
AnaSCI VET
- Nov 20, 2012
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- Feb 7, 2013
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I think he's wearing lil tight shorts on the shores of south beach- working on his Cuban accent trying to get picked up by an even older gay man-
No thats not how it works at all. This is totally backwards rofl
:sFun_TVtrouble::sAng_badmood::sSig_Kewlpics:
Trenbolone, masteron, and other AAS could hard on the renal system. Theyre not good for your liver. Usually the more resistant a drug is to metabolism the more 'toxic' it is. There could also be liver damage caused by direct agonism at steroid receptor sites in the liver Liver Injury Induced by High-Dose Methylprednisolone Therapy: A Case Report and Brief Review of the Literature
Yes this is correct. Even the natural testosterone and estrogen produced by the human body gets eaten up by the liver.
- Feb 7, 2013
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You do understand that I am talking about when "inject" an oral as solution intramuscularly- how does first pass metabolism happen this way?
First pass is only relevant for drugs that are completely broken down by the liver, like testosterone. If you take an anadrol it is still going to pass through your liver thousands of times whether it is injected or taken orally. Your blood is constantly passing through your liver.
So I guess you're right if you inject anadrol you could technically say it avoids first pass metabolism. But it is not important because even anadrol Inj. will pass through your liver thousands of times before being excreted.
Injecting anadrol and eating it is the same thing. The difference is anadrol Inj. gets released from the depot slowly. It could also be easier on your stomach. Some people get stomach aches from high dose orals.
Also, non 17methylated steroids could be damaging to liver. The 17methyl modification is not the only thing that causes liver toxicity. Liver toxicity is complicated and not well understood.
So I guess you're right if you inject anadrol you could technically say it avoids first pass metabolism. But it is not important because even anadrol Inj. will pass through your liver thousands of times before being excreted.
Injecting anadrol and eating it is the same thing. The difference is anadrol Inj. gets released from the depot slowly. It could also be easier on your stomach. Some people get stomach aches from high dose orals.
Also, non 17methylated steroids could be damaging to liver. The 17methyl modification is not the only thing that causes liver toxicity. Liver toxicity is complicated and not well understood.
Sorry if that sounds rude but please dont think that because youre using winstrol depot its not liver toxic.
- Feb 7, 2013
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There is a huge huge disparity between things that are passing via oral ingestion versus systemic blood flow-
Let's just look at the pharmacokinetics of oral admin of 100mg of Drol-
You take 100mg of Drol orally, it gets broken down in your stomach slightly, passes onto the intestines where it's then absorbed and DIRECTLY plumbed to the liver for first pass metabolization... All 100mg has to pass through the liver and it's subject to enzymatic breakdown.
Okay now- you inject 100mg of Drol... It sits in a depot in the muscle and get released into the blood stream where it gets circulated by the heart into the arteries to ALL the tissues of the body, it does not go from the heart straight to the liver for break down, some does, but the vast majority is flowing into the organs and tissues of the body where it's either exerting and effect at receptor sites or then passing through the kidneys and various other tissues where metabolization can take place. Not all 100mg is going to be subjected to hepatic breakdown as where taking and oral dose would, and again the disparity is quite significant.
This is the same reason why you take nitro glycerine sublingual so that it's not subject to hepatic break down which would then render the drug useless... Yes some does enter the liver where it's subject to hepatic function but their percentage is vastly different.
As I said earlier this is only relevant to drugs which must be administered IM or subQ like testosterone. You are incorrect. Do more research about the renal and circulatory systems in general.
tripletotal
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2013
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It is my understanding that butthole69 is correct. If a compound, whether AAS, alcohol, acetaminophen, or whatever, is a type that is broken down by the liver, then it is going to be broken down by your liver.
Whether you inject it, snort it, drink it, or shove it up your ass, your liver still has to deal with 100% of it. There's no way around that.
If it's in your blood, it's going to go through your liver.
Where do half lives comes from? From how quickly compounds are metabolized or "broken down" by the liver. Injectable versions of orals have the same half lives as the oral version because.....
Whether you inject it, snort it, drink it, or shove it up your ass, your liver still has to deal with 100% of it. There's no way around that.
If it's in your blood, it's going to go through your liver.
Where do half lives comes from? From how quickly compounds are metabolized or "broken down" by the liver. Injectable versions of orals have the same half lives as the oral version because.....
theprince
Banned
- Aug 5, 2014
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theprince
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- Feb 7, 2013
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Look at the title of my post- that's all I was talking about is oral steroids that are administered IM-
I'm not talking about oral steroids taking orally-
- Feb 7, 2013
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No- not correct...
Again look at nitroglycerine as a prime example.. Once it hits the liver from ingestion, then it's rendered completely inert- this is why it's taken sublingually. Things that are taken via Intramuscular, intravenous, sublingual, nasal, subcutaneous all forego "first pass" metabolism which is where the greatest degree of liver metabolization takes place.
Your blood volume does not pass through your liver the way it does through your kidneys, this is simply not the case. 75% of all blood flow comes from the Portal Vein stemming from the GI tract. The main "detoxification" function that the liver is designed to perform is to detoxify things which have been ingested and absorbed into your GI, it's not the sole detoxifier for the body, it's function is not the same of the kidneys. While it does metabolize a myriad of hormones and carbs and many many other things within the arterial blood supply, it's main detox function is that of the blood flow from the portal vein.
While blood does pass through the liver if you look at the structure or each of the liver lobules and the way blood flows from with each lobule from the portal triad. Especially when you look at the liver acinus and over all veinus and arterial blood flow within the liver acinus. You'll see the primary mode of blood detoxification is done when things are ingested and then directed to the liver from the portal vein.
I don't have the study to show, but this is also supported by a study which showed the pharmacological and pharmacokinetic differences between oral and intravenous administration of certain pain killers. The ALT liver enzyme levels where not even in the same ball park in terms of damage yielded between oral and IV administration of the same drugs.
Again my over all agenda with this topic was to illustrate that IM was safer and showed a lower level of liver toxicity due to the forgoing of "first pass" liver metabolization.
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