Say no to Deca & say hi to NPP!

alpha6164 said:

I am a board certified physician and involved heavily on hormone replacement therapy and have done quite a bit of research with some top pharma companies in Europe in the field of anabolics.

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Okey.
I appreciate all the works you do here and looking forward to learn more from you!

alpha6164 said:

Here is the issue everyone should consider. With NPP you have to use 10-20% more on a weekly basis to give same effect. And here is why. Most drugs are eliminated in the body in the following routes:

1) liver
2) kidney
3) break down or conversion to other compounds.

There are some other minor pathways but is beyond the scope of this discussion. In drugs that have an extremely half short life the compound breaks down way before the hepatic and renal system have a chance to kick in. With drugs with extremely long half lives if the dosage is high enough the hepatic and renal system get maxed out and only so much can clear and the serum levels start to stack up. We see this with tren enanthate and Deca.

The reason some that have tried both and "feel" Deca worked better is because once you go over 400-500 of Deca there is a major stacking effect and after 6-8 weeks serum levels are way higher than same compound that doesn't clear.

Obviously nandrolone is nandrolone. Physiologically it is impossible for one to work better than the other since your body does not use the ester. It is just how their profile changes in vivo.

But once again to compare apples to apples there is absolutely no reason to choose Deca over NPP. If you are using 500mg of Deca you should use 650mg of NPP to make it equivalent.

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Its a plus for this board to have such a knowledgable person from your field, thanks for the information and I will never use deca over npp

This info is great.

Alpha, Thank you for your contributions.

Johnny Ringo said:

Plan on running low dose Tren 100mgs with my HRT 200 MSG of Test

What would be better combo for lean muscle gains ? NPP or Masteron?

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Run Masteron, you will be very happy with results.

Great info, but I like long ester deca. The enlargement of the heart is very scary though when taken deca at high dosages for long period of time.

Johnny Ringo said:

Plan on running low dose Tren 100mgs with my HRT 200 MSG of Test

What would be better combo for lean muscle gains ? NPP or Masteron?

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Both would be great. Masteron shows it's results most when your bf is low but some people confuse that thinking it is solely a cosmetic drug. Fact is it is great for lean muscle gains due to it's androgenic activity. It's a great compliment to most aas (especially test) and over time can lead to quality gains due to increased strength and overall aggression in the gym. Moreover your already lean so it just add to your hardness and overall density.

NPP I have only taken once and was very surprised by it. I need to use it more to gain a better understanding. Although nandrolone in general can be greatly misunderstood imo. Loads think it just blows them up full of water in the wrong places but that is usually only the case when test is present. Everyone is different and sure it can have that effect but usually when high levels of estrogen are present. In regards of solely physical effect I would liken npp to a weak tren in a way. I felt tight/hard on it but with more fullness than tren. I never got the joint benefits I do when on deca... certain things may have contributed to that though.

I would recommend npp for the best lean muscle gains. I know you keep your diet fairly strict and your on tren too so you should love the combo. Got to add I think masteron is amazing with nandrolone. So the combo of both would be great. You just have to be careful as your on low test and you don't want to drive your estrogen too low so doses are key. I like to add mast later on during a long nandrolone cycle but either way is great.

Is your plan to add on the npp or mast to your trt regime? Not sure of your doses you want but I can see something like this being great...

Test... 40mg per day
Tren... 15mg per day
Mast... 30mg per day
NPP... 60mg per day

That would give 280mg test, 105mg tren, 210mg mast and 420mg npp so a total of 1.015g so call it 1g. If 1g is too much take away alittle or if too little add on

Just adding I am having a few weeks break from my log (various reasons) but when I get back to it I will be on 1.2g deca and 300mg test so feel free to check it out I wanted adrol but sold out so got some dbol on the way

Question Alpha.. whats your advice on TPP alone? Over an ethenate or cyp? Thanks cause its a fav of mine in over 45 yr old league.

Phenyl prop? Hey Iron.. T

Yeah perfect sense alpha..thanks .

Yeah t ..phen prop.... I'm a shorter ester prefered person.

Great post doc. I do like both but do bloat less on npp.

alpha6164 said:

There is nothing wrong with test phenylprop. It is a test with half life about 3-4 days. It basically falls between prop and cyp. There is nothing about it that makes it better of worse than cyp or prop. Testosterone enanthate doesn't have the stacking syndrome as Deca because test converts to many compounds including estrogen, DHT etc besides its renal and hepatic clearance. Besides more frequent injections you really don't get any more benefit than cyp. When using cyp at more than 200mg a week I always recommend doing more frequent injections anyways.

My recommendation is always to choose a test ester based on the fastest acting ester you have in your cycle. So if you are using tren ace and plan to pin daily, you might as well use testosterone prop or even better acetate. If you are using NPP where you are injecting three times a week you can use cyp and just divide weekly dosage by three. Hope that makes sense.

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This is excellent beginner advice for those that want to learn stacking. I will make one small comment on your NPP vs deca statement. There are only two things that would make somebody choose deca over NPP.

1) frequent injections.
2) frequent deca users that simply are stuck in their ays and refuse to change.

other than that I agree that its more beneficial to use NPP over deca anyday. great post.

alpha6164 said:

There is nothing wrong with test phenylprop. It is a test with half life about 3-4 days. It basically falls between prop and cyp. There is nothing about it that makes it better of worse than cyp or prop. Testosterone enanthate doesn't have the stacking syndrome as Deca because test converts to many compounds including estrogen, DHT etc besides its renal and hepatic clearance. Besides more frequent injections you really don't get any more benefit than cyp. When using cyp at more than 200mg a week I always recommend doing more frequent injections anyways.

My recommendation is always to choose a test ester based on the fastest acting ester you have in your cycle. So if you are using tren ace and plan to pin daily, you might as well use testosterone prop or even better acetate. If you are using NPP where you are injecting three times a week you can use cyp and just divide weekly dosage by three. Hope that makes sense.

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Your forgetting that the propionate ester is not a very soluable fatty acid and because of that their is PIP involved with it. While your idea to use a fast acting ester concurrently is sound and in reality good practice, the fact is some just cant tolerate the amount of soreness you get from prop even if its diluted and cut with tren or whatever other fast acting compound placed inside the same syringe. Other than that your idea is sound.

Might I add that the acetate ester is by far the greatest test ester available. While more frequent injections are necessary with acetate since it isn't as long acting as enanthate, cyp or decanoate, fact is its easier to time serum levels in your blood and it doesn't have the PIP that prop has. If you can stand being a pin coushon the acetate is the best ester available. This is merely a timing standpoint because as we all know in the end test is test no matter which ester is attached to it. In the end when it is metabolized a all and broken down it comes out the same.

I never use deca...bad experiences both times I used it

i have ran both deca and npp. definitely prefer the npp. less bloat, lubed joints and great fullness. never got much strength out of deca or npp tho.

i have ran 400 to 700 mgs of NPP with little to no sides.

favorite stack was 300mg test p, 400mg npp, and 500mg tren a.

What would you recommend, NPP eod or e3d?
And please explain.