Just starting..... suggestions?

I'd run the first cycle just how we said...Maybe run the next the same and compare the two diff. times you ran it, all things being as equal as possible.
Keep logs on diet and training so you can actually compare. Then, think about what else you'd like to try.

partyxpinky said:

The reason why i ask is because i was going to order all three cycles and pct as well all at once since itd be cheaper and wouldnt have any extra stuff around you know?

Click to expand...

What you mean you wouldn't have any extra around you know... surely if you get all 3 cycles you will have loads of gear around for over a year as it is a large amount. Shipping is only $20 (or thereabouts) so I would hold off with ordering the 3 cycles in one go. It is entirely up to you though. But it is only your first cycle so you don't know how you may react (in general or to an individual compound) etc etc etc etc. Too many reasons to list but I would just get all your stuff for this cycle and extra incase any mistakes (drop vile or split sachet). Make sure you have more than enough protection too. But I feel you should only plan out your following 3 cycles when you have a better knowledge and personal experience of different compounds.

In ref to your cycle I would just do what everyone else as stated. Even though it is your first dbol will be fine with a long estered test. As it's your first time I feel 25mg per day would be plenty and you would put on huge bulk with that dose. Added to that 500mg of test c/e or even sust and you will be cool. I would run it for 10-12 weeks. So just do it about 11. Take armidex throughout your cycle. If you kickstarting with dbol maybe do 0.75mg per day and after the 4/5 weeks (I would do 5) lower than to 0.5mg per day (even 0.25mg). You don't need to bother tapering the dose but can if you want. You should do that upto 2/3 weeks after your last injection. Then you start PCT. For PCT I would do Clomid and Nolva and do that for 21 days. I forgot to add HCG would be great to stop your balls going the size of peanuts. You could do that every 4 weeks and do it for 3/4 days in that particular week (about 500IU each time). Or you can do a 500IU injection every 7 days which I feel will work best for you. It will stop then getting small and give you that extra boost and aid the performance of ther other compounds. So your cycle would look like this:

Week 1-11 = Test C at 500mg per week split into 2 (Mon, Thurs)
Week 1-5 = Dbol at 25mg per day split up to ensure stable blood plasma etc
Week 1-5 = Armidex at 0.75mg per day
Week 6-13 = Armidex at 0.5mg per day (even 0.25mg would be fine - you decide if your happy with the amount of water weight and other sides etc)
Week 1-11 = HCG at 500IU every 7 days (Wed)

PCT
Week 14-17= Clomid (Day 1 = 200mg (no need for 300 like many do), days 2-11 100mg per day, days 12-21 50mg per day).
Week 14-16 = Nolvadex at 20mg per day
Week 17 = Nolvadex at 10mg per day

Please note you should be running a liver protector throughout your cycle. If you use the board sponsor just add Liv52. Milk Thistle is other good addition. You can get much stronger but the previous 2 should be cool for you. A good multi-vitamin is always good too. I take policosanol (amongst many) to help with my cholesterol and it brings about other benefits. People have mentioned proviron and this is fine to be taken in conjunction with the armidex. It is not a must (like the HCG isn't really) but it one of my fav compounds. It really hardens me up (amazing) and that in every sense of the word! That especially important to me!

In regards to doing the same cycle again that is cool. But you need atleast the time you was on your cycle until you start other. I would wait even longer so you recover fully and stabilize. Then you will get better gains from your 2nd cycle (if you choose to do other). Personally I would like to swop things about so if I done test c in my 1st cycle I would do Sust in my 2nd. Deca in my first then Eq in my 2nd etc etc etc. That way you will find the best compounds for your own body and what make you feel best.

In the time you have off it is important you have fully recovered properly. This is why the additonal of a zinc supplement is a good choice. Even a ZMA product would be good. In additon to Tribulus (especially Bulgarian Tribulus) that will raise your test levels and aid your recovery. Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris causes the body to release luteinizing hormone, which sends a signal to the testes to produce more testosterone. This is a great product cos it will help normalize oestrogen levels in the body. If your oestrogen levels are too high, it will decrease them to normal levels. And if they are too low, it will raise them to normal levels. So me thinks it will be lowering them so are back to your usual self. Take Tribulus for 8 weeks then stop.

Then after ATLEAST 3 months time off you can look at setting up your 2nd cycle if you want and put on other 20 pounds! Hope it helps and have fun.

By the way my next cycle is gonna be very similar. Will be Sust and dbol. I am choosing between Eq and Masteron E to add to the previous two. My current cycle is Test C, Deca and Anadrol.

I should add the Tribulus doesn't actually convert so that is why I rec it. It is an excellent product. I said to use it for 8 weeks because after that time the body will no longer continue to produce excessive testosterone. However, after ceasing the use for only 2 weeks, the body will respond to it again. The 8 weeks-on, 2 weeks-off schedule can be continued indefinitely. Good luck

for you I would start you on 500mgs of Sus and 250 mgs of deca and then come off with 400mgs down to 200mgs EQ. 8 weeks sus and deca then 4 weeks eq, then 4 week hcg you won't need nova for this one. The EQ will help prolong your gains and keep you full for you coming down also harden you up. Try to aviod orals if you are only gonna run a couple of cycles. Orals are more harmful to your body then liquids because they pass through your liver more then once. If you graduate and get hooked then use orals, but I would recomend milk thistle and liv 52 to help clean out your system. You should use them anyway, but more-so for oral use. Don't be afraid of the pin it's nothing, just use pins in sterile packing.

gippywool said:

for you I would start you on 500mgs of Sus and 250 mgs of deca and then come off with 400mgs down to 200mgs EQ. 8 weeks sus and deca then 4 weeks eq, then 4 week hcg you won't need nova for this one. The EQ will help prolong your gains and keep you full for you coming down also harden you up. Try to aviod orals if you are only gonna run a couple of cycles. Orals are more harmful to your body then liquids because they pass through your liver more then once. If you graduate and get hooked then use orals, but I would recomend milk thistle and liv 52 to help clean out your system. You should use them anyway, but more-so for oral use. Don't be afraid of the pin it's nothing, just use pins in sterile packing.

Click to expand...

Orals are very harmful but if you keep the dose fairly low and the time on them there shouldn't be a problem. They are very toxic but sometimes their toxicity is greatly exaggerated. I am not saying they are good cos they are bad for you. And if people abuse them they will fuck up their livers and kidneys etc etc. But like I said use a good liver protector and people will be fine. Most importantly don't drink alcohol whilst on your cycle. I know most non pro's who cycle like to drink whilst on. I drink sometimes too but would never when I am on adrol. But I have friends (me included) who drink huge amounts and get completely wrecked fairly often and I would say that is far more damaging than taking certain orals for a short period. If you start cycling and really enjoy it and want to do more in the future just take all the protection and maybe limit yourself to taking the likes of dbol and adrol to 2 cycles per year. The key is to use them but never abuse them like with every compound... but especially strong orals cos they are most damaging. You should always put injectables ahead of orals cos their effectiveness is great. But personally I don't think the likes of dbol can be beaten for the feeling it gives you and the results. But research other orals sucj as anavar, turinabol etc etc that are less damaging and bring about excellent results.

I quoted your input gippywool cos I was wondering what PCT you intended for the 12 week cycle. What did you mean by 4 weeks HCG? Did you mean during weeks 8-12 to do 5OOIU weekly? Or it appears you meant do HCG for PCT and for 4 weeks after the Eq. I don't get that at all. I know HCG can be used during or for PCT (90% on here will say never do it for PCT). There are many ways but if someone decided to do it for PCT and do maybe 1500IU every 4 days over 12 days then they would have to follow it up with Nolvadex or similar compound (for 3 weeks). The HCG is strong stuff and if anything will rebound more than the actual steroids so although it is a very useful thing to kickstart your recovery it must be followed with anti-estrogens.

Oh and yeah you are right I am liking the adrol very much! I done a thread called progress about it. It brings about not bad sides (I explain in the thread) but when compared to dbol there is only one winner in my books. The breakfast of champions as Arnie used to say... dbol of course.

But of course to get a better understanding and more valid opinion I plan to cycle different brands of both over the next few years

LIV 52 is actually on Alinshop. I use ebay though. But just use Alin if you are ordering a cycle at the same time. Milk Thistle is in most vitamin stores. Or just ebay it! Both are very cheap.

partyxpinky said:

i was looking at the different tests and which one do u think is the "best". meaning good results, maintainning gains, healthiest (liv damage and acne and such). without "Blowing up" you know like very noticable juicing effects.

Click to expand...

Definately Sustanon. Test P is great for cutting cycles and carries much less water weight than the long estered tests. Sust is a test blend and would be an excellent choice. Plus you wouldn't need to inject eod like with test p. 2 weekly injections would be best imo. I plan to use it next cycle and will do Mon and Thurs injections.

If your only 19 I would stay away from gear completely. The questions you ask about routine etc etc shows you should learn the natural route first. You should have a solid knowledge of diet and training b4 embarking on gear. Not to mention the fact you are only 19 and haven't developed fully. I would sort those 2 things out and then look at gear when your alittle older.

Just make sure you eat right and train right. Research diets tips (bulking tips in regards to food). Then make sure you are doing all exercises with proper form and have a excellent knowledge of different exercises for each bodypart. Ask a few personal trainers or someone experienced at your gym. And I don't mean the biggest fella cos that means nothing and he may be clueless.

There is no right answer in regards to actual routines. If your natural I would say Mon, Wed, Fri would be best. That gives you the 24hrs your nervous system needs to fully recover. Plus the big break on the w/e. You should have 2/3 core exercises for each bodypart such as Squat for legs, Deadlift for back, bench press for chest etc etc. And have a few others for each body part to swop about each time. You should do between 3-4 exercises for each bodypart and no more than 5 sets. If you do 3 exercises then do 5 sets. If you do 4 exercises than do 4 sets. There is no right answer though. Just get the basics spot on cos it is true about about many saying a jack of all trades a master of none. Get the core exercises spot on and work on from them. You should always warm up and strench properly (b4 and after... even during). You can go up in weight or go down. I swop it about. I would do 5 sets and go gradually up in weight. But now if I am bench pressing I might do 5 sets of the same weight... it changes all the time. I have actually changed my routine completely recently.

Many say you need to lift big weights do get big and that is true in many respects but not in others. I now for every bobypart pick a weight I should get about 15 from. So in my 1st set I will get about that amount. The key is I don't count and I concentrate on contraction and form. When I can not go on or my form starts slipping due to fatigue I will stop. Oh and this is true for most exercises (not all is your going explosive or 'pumping iron') but you should always move slowly and make sure form is spot on. Don't be banging massive weights up and down it is just ego boosting and doesn't really do anything effective apart from impress people at the gym. For my 2nd set (30 secs rest or so) I will do the same and carry on till I have to stop or my form is messed up. I will attempt that 4 or 5 times depending on the exercise and/pr how I feel. So by the 5th attempt I can maybe manage 5. Oh and I don't have huge weights like I used to but just a nice amount that I can control properly.

You can do 4 days per week but the 3 is spot on. Especially considering your 19 and still growing. You will notice you will be knackered off 4 (mon,tues, thurs, fri). You could do one day on one day off if you are able to get to the gym on the w/e. I say you should be knackered cos your workouts should be intense. It is better to have fewer workouts and they be intense then have 5/6/7 per week and they be boring and similar and none challenging. So many people over train and do 15 sets on bench press etc or go 6 times per week and it is pointless. Don't confuse that to pro's or people who have individual parts each day of the week. I know many who work out 6 of 7 to great effect but the average gym goer who does that is just wasting their time. The other key is rest. You develop muscle when you are in recovery. You have to tear the muscle fibres and then make sure you have lots of rest (so 8-10 hours sleep per day). You tear different fibres from light weight high rep routines and heavy weight and lowe rep routines... that is why you should use both if your routine. Hope all the above helps

Just copied part of a reply I done in other thread. Just regarding a plan for an actual 3 and 4 day routine.

The Mon, Wed, Fri is a winning formula but I have started doing 4 days too. There are 1001 ways but if your doing 4 days I would rec:

Mon- Legs, Abs

Tues- Shoulders, Biceps, Abs

Thurs- Back

Fri- Chest, Triceps, Abs

If you do 3 days then:

Mon Legs, shoulders, Abs

Wed Chest and Tri-ceps, Abs

Fri Back and bi-ceps.


Both the above are cool just make sure you have your exercises sorted out. Like I said I would stay away from gear for a few years. Just stick to lots of protein, complex carbs, essential fats etc etc. If you want a little test boost then take Tribulus. It is a herb and great product to be used in conjunction with the gym. I would do 8 weeks on and maybe 4 off. Then back on (you can do 8 on 2 off etc). Get Bulgarian tribulus because that is best. Just type it in on ebay and you will be sorted. You don't need to be injectin yourself with 500mg Sust each week just yet. Do it natural first. By the way I am only young but if your just a normal gym goer and want to look good on the beach (not wanting to be a pro) then you should stay away from gear until about atleast 22.