You are on a cycle of very high Test. That estrogen reading is not too high for the amount of Test you are on. I would not up the AI dose. Who ever said you have to stay within normal ranges while on cycle, your Test is not in normal range? You don't want it really high because of sides, if you are not experiencing many sides, then in my opinion you are gtg.
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Need some input on which Estrogen Blocker to use?
- Thread starter amateurmale
- Start date
Having estrogen within normal range is very much achievable on a high test cycle. Sorry but I disagree.
The question you need to ask is, Do you need or want your Estrogen levels in the normal range when on high Test cycle? Trust me, there is varying opinions and many reasons for or not for it. I have researched this until I was blue in the face. Ask most bodybuilders there opinion. I understand it is achievable, but why? He is not going to keep it there forever. Also, if your Test levels are really high and your Estro is in normal range, you can actually get low estrogen side affects.
Are you just being difficult? I am just offering you an opinion on the research I have done, you don't have to accept it. Please tell me you are not one of those people that believe your opinion is the only one? Anyway, maybe some others that have not spoken will give there input on this. I was only trying to offer an opinion that has been well accepted by many bodybuilders. You are on cycle, not on TRT.
The below quote comes from a very knowledgeable and well respected member on PM. Remember, there are varying opinions, so you need to research for yourself.
"xcellent info, but remember there is competition between Estrogen and Testosterone.
The "normal" range of E2 needs to be adjusted for the amount of test you are on. For example, if you somehow took enough of an AI to hit 50 estradiol on 1g of test, you would get all sorts of low estrogen side effects (this would require 50mg+ aromasin, no one takes that much anyway). Now if you take 20-25mg of aromasin on 1g of test, you will hit about 100 estradiol, however you will not have any symptoms of estrogentic side effects, even if you are sensitive to them.
Competition between testosterone and estrogen (estradiol) is well known to endocrinologists, and some organic chemists, however it is a vague area. A great example of this effect is in postmenopausal women, when their ovaries stop producing estrogens, they get androgenic side effects from the testosterone produced by their adrenal gland, even though this is the same amount that was produced before menopause.
This competition is thought to be due to co-binding factors at the AR and ER, however again, this is a vague area. I have extensively questioned a rather famous endocrinologist I once met on this issue, Patrick Arnold, and a very smart organic chemist I know, all with very little information forthcoming."
"xcellent info, but remember there is competition between Estrogen and Testosterone.
The "normal" range of E2 needs to be adjusted for the amount of test you are on. For example, if you somehow took enough of an AI to hit 50 estradiol on 1g of test, you would get all sorts of low estrogen side effects (this would require 50mg+ aromasin, no one takes that much anyway). Now if you take 20-25mg of aromasin on 1g of test, you will hit about 100 estradiol, however you will not have any symptoms of estrogentic side effects, even if you are sensitive to them.
Competition between testosterone and estrogen (estradiol) is well known to endocrinologists, and some organic chemists, however it is a vague area. A great example of this effect is in postmenopausal women, when their ovaries stop producing estrogens, they get androgenic side effects from the testosterone produced by their adrenal gland, even though this is the same amount that was produced before menopause.
This competition is thought to be due to co-binding factors at the AR and ER, however again, this is a vague area. I have extensively questioned a rather famous endocrinologist I once met on this issue, Patrick Arnold, and a very smart organic chemist I know, all with very little information forthcoming."
Idiot, where do you get I haven't researched?
And I'm on over a gram of test and my E2 was in the 60's and I'm not taking 50mgs of aromasin.
Anybody who tells you that having high estrogen during cycle or anytime is a fucking moron. Period.
You are quite immature I can tell. No need to discuss any further with you. I will make sure and let Kaladryn on PM know you think he is a moron.
You're going to PM some dude I don't know to start some drama and you're calling me immature? Wtf?!?!? Obviously your estrogen is high bro.
immature,
I just made a thread on PM about Test to Estrogen ratio if you care to follow it. Maybe we both might learn something.
I just made a thread on PM about Test to Estrogen ratio if you care to follow it. Maybe we both might learn something.
Just trying to convey to you that lowering your Estro anymore with more AI may be doing more harm than good. That much AI could cause more sides than the Estro. You though know it all so no need to discuss any further. Good luck with your cycle.
Sully
AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
- Dec 3, 2012
- 3,324
- 0
- 36
After years of reading everything I can find about AAS use and ancillaries, this is the first time I've heard anyone say that you can have sides of low E just by keeping you estrogen in range during a cycle. Sure, there's always the ridiculous bro science argument that says that lowering estrogen while on kills your gains. But, your arguement is a new version I've not heard before.
Do you have any real scientific data to back up anything your saying, or is it just conjecture from some bros on boards? Is there any valid scientific study of any kind that backs up your claims? If there is, please link to it. Because, on the opposite side if the arguement there is plenty of scientific evidence that shows that having elevated estrogen levels in men for extended periods of time can have a significant long-term negative impact on a man's health.
And while I agree that 20 points may not be enough to sweat about, it's not my health we're talking about. The OP obviously feels that those 20 points are significant enough to be concerned about, and wants help in getting his numbers within an acceptable range. And ultimately, it's his body and physical health and he has the right to take whatever steps he feels are appropriate to get his numbers where he wants them to be.
I'm not saying you're wrong Maine, you just don't offer a very compelling argument. Hell, even at the end your arguement the best you could manage was "even a bunch of really well educated experts just really aren't sure."
Do you have any real scientific data to back up anything your saying, or is it just conjecture from some bros on boards? Is there any valid scientific study of any kind that backs up your claims? If there is, please link to it. Because, on the opposite side if the arguement there is plenty of scientific evidence that shows that having elevated estrogen levels in men for extended periods of time can have a significant long-term negative impact on a man's health.
And while I agree that 20 points may not be enough to sweat about, it's not my health we're talking about. The OP obviously feels that those 20 points are significant enough to be concerned about, and wants help in getting his numbers within an acceptable range. And ultimately, it's his body and physical health and he has the right to take whatever steps he feels are appropriate to get his numbers where he wants them to be.
I'm not saying you're wrong Maine, you just don't offer a very compelling argument. Hell, even at the end your arguement the best you could manage was "even a bunch of really well educated experts just really aren't sure."
I made my post to give the guy an option, and another opinion. There is actually information out there that talks about this, some resent seminars with Endocrinologists talking about people on TRT worrying about being out of range, when they may not have to worry. I do agree with you on the carcinogen affects of Estro, but that is long term. That high Test number is going to hurt him more than being 20 high on estro during a cycle. Again, we are not talking long term. Yes there are links, I will try and find them. I also started a thread on Prof Muscle if you want to follow.
Like I said, I was just offering up an opinion on research. Do you really think the stuff we are putting into our bodies is not worse than a little bit of extra Estrogen?
Like I said, I was just offering up an opinion on research. Do you really think the stuff we are putting into our bodies is not worse than a little bit of extra Estrogen?
mikeystrong
Registered User
I think you spent to much time in seminars and classes and not enough time slappin some big ass weights together.
Your off base, I'm not the one worrying about being a little off scale on my levels. Re-read, then go hit the weights
Your off base, I'm not the one worrying about being a little off scale on my levels. Re-read, then go hit the weights
Damn bro, are you still here?