Opinions? Should first cycle be heavy or light?

I agree with everything here.

The only thing is that while it may be a good idea to have some estro control on hand (definitely aromasin over anastrazole), I wouldn't necessarily start out using the AI right off the bat. Estro control is going to keep you drier and retain less fluids but also the joints and that awesome first-cycle blow up depends on a little more estrogen. You are already fairly low bodyfat so gyno is probably unlikely.

I'm not a huge proponent of ancillaries "factored in" to a cycle. Absolutely, 100% necessary to have on hand but I'm more of a "as needed" basis with ancillaries. And make no mistake, you will eventually, as we all have, need them.

But a first, short cycle, of 300-400mg test, unless you're genetically predisposed to gyno, will be highly unlikely and PCT would almost be pointless at that short of duration.

The most important point, as has been said, is that anastrazole is not a great choice for a myriad of reasons (dry joints, kills your HDL/LDL ratio, has a rebound estrogenic effect, and may even take a bite out of your sex drive).

This is why I avoid the ancillaries unless absolutely necessary. I've had mixed results with different PCT's. The hCG is the most important factor there. As far as getting your natural test to start again, at least for me, just seems to require it's desired amount of time no matter what I do/take. You will find, as everyone here has, is that this is all highly individual and everyone is very different chemically, even in your normal state. Heck, some people try one cycle and decide it's not for them. Others, well,

wrees said:

Right on, and thanks man, Im going to order some aromasin and have it on hand, prob going to go with 150mg 2x a week for maybe....8 weeks, I was planning 10-12 but seems like its not a bad idea to cut it back to 8 weeks, do you think i will need the HCG? if so when and how much should i use while on this cycle? prob just end up having it around and if i start to see to much test atrophy ill bust it out

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What I can tell you is what I've experienced. First, I don't even feel the entire "fullness" of the testosterone until well into the second week and sometimes around week 3. I also make a note of how long it takes to reach full blood plasma level and then tack that amount of time on to the "end" of my cycle because technically, I'm still "on". As far as hCG, 500iu 2-3 times per week in between test injections is going to restore any lost testicular size quite quickly (within a couple weeks).

I personally don't notice much shrinkage from test. Others definitely do. Things like deca, dbol, and tren will shrink me up worse than test.

I can not understate the value of having a good trainer guide you. While I can tell you what I experience, these guys not only know what works for them but can easily assess what will likely work best for someone else. That's exactly what they do. A lot goes into it. BF levels, morphology, insulin sensitivity, thyroid, etc. I think you will find that, over time, it is money very well spent if they are good.

I'm not going to go into a long discussion as to the why-

But I've suggested over and over again and still believe this a great first cycle and I've seen many friends do extremely well with not a single bad experience-

Test- 400
EQ- 400
Dbol-35mg

I'm sorry but I firmly believe Ur first cycle should be test only and max 500 mgs of test per week.
P

Maybe that works well for some to load up first cycle.More than likely you will
be a roadmap of stretch marks. They look like shit when you piss off
a ton of water post cycle. I don't care how good your pct is you will lose
some size strength after the dbol and test are gone. Will be a bit harder on endocrine system as well. That is more of the instant gratification route.
Basic rule if thumb for longevity and continued progress- get the most from the least not a little more with quite a bit more aas. Everyone has the way they prefer. Enignatics way is one he has found to work . My way is my preference .
Ultimately it's your choice. Nice thing at this board is we discuss not dis. T

Enigmatic707 said:

I'm not going to go into a long discussion as to the why-

But I've suggested over and over again and still believe this a great first cycle and I've seen many friends do extremely well with not a single bad experience-

Test- 400
EQ- 400
Dbol-35mg

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You don't have to explain. This is just simply the other side of the debate (start slow vs. blast in). There are points on both sides and we don't need to get into all that. Mine would look more like:

test prop 50mg/day (or 100mg/prop every other day, or 200-250mg or cyp or enanthate/wk)
eq 3cc's/wk (~600mg)
dianabol 50-100mg

That would leave room to eventually take your test up to a gram or two and maybe another 2 cc's of eq. As for the orals, I personally try to avoid more than 200mg's of any 17aa oral per day.

Here's the problem. If a problem should arise, the person would have no experience and no idea which part of the stack the culprit would be. I wouldn't recommend ANYONE start out with any of these stacks unless alongside a personal trainer that is highly experienced in these areas.

I am about to launch into my third cycle. Now granted, I'm an old guy (past the half-century mark), but my first cycle (from which I saw great gains) was a light one, on purpose. My reasoning was that if I'm going to be injecting stuff into my body, I want to see how I react: blood pressure, temperment, cholestorol, sleep, energy, etc. on a light dose so I know how to better plan for future cycles. YMMV.

I guess I feel that there are so many sources to help out these days- and to add to my post, I've always walked my guys through the cycle and explained all the pit falls and the dos and donts.

Of course they do stupid things here and there but I usually get a text and straighten them out.

But yes for some one all on their own, with no one to ask any questions or have guidance- a test only cycle would be a good choice , but you still run all the same risk of sides. Maybe the dbol makes the gyno a bit more likely-

Enigmatic707 said:

I guess I feel that there are so many sources to help out these days- and to add to my post, I've always walked my guys through the cycle and explained all the pit falls and the dos and donts.

Of course they do stupid things here and there but I usually get a text and straighten them out.

But yes for some one all on their own, with no one to ask any questions or have guidance- a test only cycle would be a good choice , but you still run all the same risk of sides. Maybe the dbol makes the gyno a bit more likely-

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Don't misunderstand. I can dig it. I've heard good things from both sides. Even I have to admit, I wonder what would have happened to me way back when (don't even like to think how long ago it was) that, if I'd gone with a really serious stack. I was so ripe, even that little bit of test blew me away! I "knew", which is to say I was told, that I had to wait 3 months in between cycles but I could barely wait to start the next one. There were no boards or internet then. No websites to order from. You just sent some cash off to heaven knows where and HOPED you got something back. Crazy.

I think you also have to factor in age here. Not young young...but a guy in his 20's will probably tolerate a slightly higher test amount with less sides, than a guy into his 40's and older.

I've went back and forth so many times on the ideal first cycle....all of them work.

For me, i'd probably say 4-500mg/wk of test only + Aromasin for a younger guys. He may be able to add some anavar in there if he wanted to, but for the most part, I like test only.

An older guy 40+ i'd say 2-300mg/wk or as per TRT if on that.

I love anabolics. There I said it. Now, what do I love about them so much? Besides the obvious, I love choices. Educated choices. Ouch... has mentioned some of the 'safety nets' a short ester can provide. Besides getting out quickly upon cessation of the short estered compound, at least for me, I notice a difference in how quickly the short ester starts to work its magic. Plus, in the case of test prop, the ester to active compound is more in your favor. More test per CC compared to enth for example.
My ideal first cycle would be no more than 500mgs a week of test prop.
Have an AI on hand as your mileage will vary. Why not have some insurance in case something creeps up you didn't think would, you may be VERY gyno sensitive, don't find out the hard way, you know? Don't use it unless you need to.
Have HCG on hand. For a 500mg week cycle of prop, do 2 250mg doses 2 days a week. On days between your shots of prop. Again, your mileage may vary. Test for me like Ouch said, doesn't affect the boys' size, but a nor like tren sure as shit does. In fact, my entire unit's been affected while on heavy amounts (scary and not good as your libido's about the same when shut down like that) but everything returns to normal UPON STOPPING the compound. Some dudes, no problem. Not me though. That's a f**king problem! LOL
Anyway, I'd do 50mg EOD of prop for the first week or two, then bump it to 75 each inject then 100-150. At an EOD frequency that will put you at 500/550 TOPS a week.
Look, I've done my share and after coming off for a while or just cruising at say 150mg/week. 500 of test will make ME grow. That's saying something.
Don't underestimate the mighty test my friend. It's some strong shit. Respect it and train like a slave camp worker and eat and rest like a king. You'll thank me later.
Grim

The average male at your age is gonna produce say 7-10mg test per day. Let say that is 10mg so 70mg for the week. 300mg test c/e per week is approx 210mg test excluding the ester weight. Therefore that's 3 times your test levels so your gonna get amazing results and feel like a machine. I know tonnes of gusy who have done 250-300mg test cycles and loved them.

However my opinion is you will never get back your first cycle. The shock to your body will never be as huge as the first time you inject artificial test in your system. You need to make the most of it! You seem to have a good plan and are in good condition so I think you should do more than 300mg. For a typical gym rat asking me I say about 400mg test. Many don't eat properly and they love the results and great. But for someone with a good foundation I always recommend more. Not too much more but don't be shutting yourself down for a measly 300mg.

I would do about 600mg test and have everything set up before you begin. Doctors prescribe AI's for a reason even with trt doses (100-150mg or so). But for you I would just have your aromasin on hand. Estrogen is a good thing as long as it doesn't get too elevated. Test e/c will hit the bloodsteam in days but takes time to build up so run your cycle for 10 weeks. That's a nice amount of time... not too much and not too little. Get nolvadex too... thats a must for gyno and the best for pct imo.

People think if you start higher you will be abusing soon but you don't have to. Simple steps for following cycles are adding in 100mg or an oral or even staying at the same dose.

I don't want to confuse you but yeah 600mg. Like this...

Weeks 1-4= 400mg test c
Weeks 5-10= 600mg test c

Good luck with your cycle regardless what you choose to do. Keep us updated... a log would be good.

Research all elements of steroid usage especially what happens when you come off. Moreover how your body reacts hormonally to artificial testosterone. Steroids are practically for life if you choose to use them a lot in the next few years.

Forgot to state pct should be 2 weeks after your last shot. 1001 ways to do things but here is what I would do...

Week 1= Clomid at 100mg. Weeks 2-3= Clomid at 50mg
Weeks 1-3= Nolvedex at 20mg. Week 4= Nolvadex at 10mg

HCG is not a must during a cycle but if used I like to either use in intervals every 4 weeks or so or just send the signal once weekly (200IU is plenty). For you I would just leave it out as your only on for 10 weeks plus the estrogen rebound will be bad and may cause issues on your cycle.

Although the best time to run HCG is after your last shot of test and in the 2 weeks before you start your pct. In that event I would use 400IU every 3 days x 4 so 12 days then start your pct a few days later. That's a great way to do things and the pct sorts out any possible estrogenic issues from the hcg.

If I had a 1st all over again I'd do 800 or so of test and take full advantage of the fresh receptors

MightyJohn said:

If I had a 1st all over again I'd do 800 or so of test and take full advantage of the fresh receptors

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Agreed! Maybe combine e or c with prop to get the total, like 400 test C and 400 prop a week. That way if sides were a serious issue, can drop down to 400 in just a couple days.

Agree that AI and PCT should all be on hand from day one.

Wouldn't bother with hcg until PCT time. Kickstart those boys right! You can't really keep em working right anyway.

Damn, that would be a fun first cycle.

If I had my first cycle to do over again I would just make sure I had everything in hand first. It would be simple test e or c 500 EW split into 2 pins every 3.5 days. Hcg at 200-250 iu x 2 EW right up to 3 days prior to pct with aromasin at 12.5 Ed. Pct would be Clomid 100/50/50/50 tamox 40/40/20/20. Everything would be real easy to manage on a first cycle like this