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What determines an orals toxicity?
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Enigmatic707
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What determines an orals toxicity? - 06-08-2013, 10:50 AM

What makes 50mg of one oral vs. 50mg of another more toxic?

What's the mechanism which determines the give "toxicity" of a given compound?
   
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Marshall
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06-08-2013, 07:08 PM

I just read a good article on that E, but don't have the link or reference. I'm probably wrong, but from what I think I remember, it may be the number of passes it makes or something like that?
   
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GastrocGuy
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06-09-2013, 11:10 AM

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What makes 50mg of one oral vs. 50mg of another more toxic?

What's the mechanism which determines the give "toxicity" of a given compound?
Hepatotoxicity is something that hurts the liver. Elaborate on what you you mean by mechanism.

Assuming you're talking about orals and how they are processed by the body ? Like 5mg of winny versus 50mg drol is the potency and affinity of a drug. Winny has a higher affinity.
   
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Enigmatic707
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06-09-2013, 04:48 PM

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Hepatotoxicity is something that hurts the liver. Elaborate on what you you mean by mechanism.

Assuming you're talking about orals and how they are processed by the body ? Like 5mg of winny versus 50mg drol is the potency and affinity of a drug. Winny has a higher affinity.
Not sure what you didn't understand-


I'm saying why is 50mg of Drol more toxic than 50mg of Var?
   
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tWack
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06-10-2013, 08:01 AM

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Not sure what you didn't understand-


I'm saying why is 50mg of Drol more toxic than 50mg of Var?
Interested in this to.
I have also been wondering why drinking lots of water would protect your liver. I can imagine it helping in removal of waste products, but can't think of anything else.
   
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GastrocGuy
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06-10-2013, 06:30 PM

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Interested in this to.
I have also been wondering why drinking lots of water would protect your liver. I can imagine it helping in removal of waste products, but can't think of anything else.
Blood viscosity, bro. More water makes the blood thinner and easier for the liver to detox since the blood passes through it.

Some drugs are more toxic than others because of their effects and it potency. For example, shoot a target 50 times with a .357 and compare it to another target shot 50 times with a .22 --You are comparing the amount of times the gun is fired, when the real difference is the caliber of bullet.
   
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Enigmatic707
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06-11-2013, 12:56 PM

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Blood viscosity, bro. More water makes the blood thinner and easier for the liver to detox since the blood passes through it.

Some drugs are more toxic than others because of their effects and it potency. For example, shoot a target 50 times with a .357 and compare it to another target shot 50 times with a .22 --You are comparing the amount of times the gun is fired, when the real difference is the caliber of bullet.
I don't see how water intake plays an appreciable role on "blood viscosity" blood plasma is one of most highly monitored systems within the body. Simply Drinking copious amounts of water would play no role on basal blood plasma levels.

If this were in effect true, platelet counts would be totally thrown off and clotting factors would reach a critical state all too fast.
   
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BEASTZ6
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06-11-2013, 04:18 PM

Interesting topic.
   
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butthole69
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06-13-2013, 10:48 PM

The answer is no one knows. Yes all oral steroids only have 1 methyl group that needs to be cleaved off (except for superdrol and dimethyltren). However, glucocorticoids cause liver damage by attaching to glucocorticoid receptors in the liver. This causes liver cirrhosis. So it could be that oral androgens are activating certain GCRs as well.

Anadrol, which has very poor binding affinity is routinely used in medicine at 300mg per day. Methyltren has incredibly strong binding affinity to the AR is supposedly very hepatoxic.
   
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mike1107
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06-14-2013, 03:07 AM

BUMP that thread, I am pretty sure somebody has an answer




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Ironbuilt
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06-14-2013, 03:50 AM

Blood is mostly water that's why u want alkaline blood ph which is made by adequate water to remove toxins from it by the liver and kidneys. Which 17akhaloids take two passes to do so. Higher the melt point harder on liver I say cause harder to break down. IMO.
**Blood In vertebrates, is composed of blood cells suspended in blood plasma. Plasma, which constitutes 55% of blood fluid, is mostly water (92% by volume). **Taken from a yettys dr journal of Medicine.

Last edited by Ironbuilt; 06-14-2013 at 04:00 AM.
   
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GastrocGuy
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06-14-2013, 11:51 AM

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I don't see how water intake plays an appreciable role on "blood viscosity" blood plasma is one of most highly monitored systems within the body. Simply Drinking copious amounts of water would play no role on basal blood plasma levels.

If this were in effect true, platelet counts would be totally thrown off and clotting factors would reach a critical state all too fast.
Google hydration og blood viscosity. Other than that, maybe you need to redefine your question. Looks like a mash of cut and paste and troll in your response. What do you mean by "highly monitored systems" (seems like this has been copied out of context) and we are not simply talking about "basal blood plasma levels" WTF, did someone let you loose with a nursing book ?

So if you KNOW that these are all wrong answers, quit stroking us and tell us what you wanted to say all along.
   
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Enigmatic707
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06-14-2013, 11:58 AM

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Google hydration og blood viscosity. Other than that, maybe you need to redefine your question. Looks like a mash of cut and paste and troll in your response. What do you mean by "highly monitored systems" (seems like this has been copied out of context) and we are not simply talking about "basal blood plasma levels" WTF, did someone let you loose with a nursing book ?

So if you KNOW that these are all wrong answers, quit stroking us and tell us what you wanted to say all along.
Umm sorry I fucking went to school for sports physiology and know a thing of two- minus the fact that my girlfriend is a med student and also happens to work in the cardio thoracic icu at Duke Medical and this was a topic I ran by her as well. I think some one who takes care of heart and lung transplant patients might know a thing about blood and hemophysiology

And when I say monitored- I suppose maybe I do need to clarify this for you. I'm inferring the obvious, that the blood/o2 system which happens to be the most critical of all vital system processes is not so easily augmented or changed. There are several on top of several systems that maintain a very precise standard of function. While blood viscosity does change once again go read my post I said it does not change it to an "appreciable" amount.

So while I didn't go and open a nursing book- chances are you need to.

Last edited by Enigmatic707; 06-14-2013 at 12:01 PM.
   
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GastrocGuy
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06-14-2013, 12:19 PM

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Umm sorry I fucking went to school for sports physiology and know a thing of two- minus the fact that my girlfriend is a med student and also happens to work in the cardio thoracic icu at Duke Medical and this was a topic I ran by her as well. I think some one who takes care of heart and lung transplant patients might know a thing about blood and hemophysiology

And when I say monitored- I suppose maybe I do need to clarify this for you. I'm inferring the obvious, that the blood/o2 system which happens to be the most critical of all vital system processes is not so easily augmented or changed. There are several on top of several systems that maintain a very precise standard of function. While blood viscosity does change once again go read my post I said it does not change it to an "appreciable" amount.

So while I didn't go and open a nursing book- chances are you need to.
Oh god, this is just a rehash of you post from Question about liver issues with orals- - 04-18-2013, 05:35 AM.

You fucking went to sports phys? So what. 4.0 or 1.5 gpa ? Your gf works in cardio t icu ? Lol, my dad's a serologist, my mom's a pharmacist, and both sisters are doctors. Who gives a fuck? Those are THEIR accomplishments, not mine and certainly your girlfriend's knowledge is not yours.

Fucking lame, ..."my girlfriend is a nurse" lulz
   
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Enigmatic707
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06-14-2013, 12:29 PM

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Oh god, this is just a rehash of you post from Question about liver issues with orals- - 04-18-2013, 05:35 AM.

You fucking went to sports phys? So what. 4.0 or 1.5 gpa ? Your gf works in cardio t icu ? Lol, my dad's a serologist, my mom's a pharmacist, and both sisters are doctors. Who gives a fuck? Those are THEIR accomplishments, not mine and certainly your girlfriend's knowledge is not yours.

Fucking lame, ..."my girlfriend is a nurse" lulz
Okay- I'm done with you... You're fucking troll and I'm sure everyone else here will see it too.
   
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BigBob
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06-14-2013, 12:59 PM

I read this and it explained a lot about hepatoxicity. There is really no direct answer to this question. It is also A genetic thing. Many people respond differently to different compounds.
Drinking elevates my liver enzymes. Anadrol didn't do it too badly. Winstrol fucked them up. Others I have spoken to it was the opposite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatotoxicity

The article really explained it well in a simple way.
   
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GastrocGuy
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06-14-2013, 01:58 PM

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Okay- I'm done with you... You're fucking troll and I'm sure everyone else here will see it too.
Throwing around other people's credentials doesn't make you more creditable. Peace bro, a little humility goes a long way in this game we call LIFE.
   
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