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Gear dosage = Gains made?
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RandomBear
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Gear dosage = Gains made? - 12-22-2013, 05:07 AM

Is there a limit to the amount of muscle mass that you can gain per cycle or does the dosages of the actual cycle itself determines how much you could gain/get beyond your genetic limit?

For example(just theoratically speaking), Adam, whos been training for 6 years and now he's 5'7 180lbs 8% bodyfat.
Brandon, whos been training for a month and he's now 5'7 100lbs 10% bodyfat.

Considering if both of them had the same genetics, bone structure, the perfect diet, perfect training plan etc and they decide to go on their first cycle, for example let's say test e 500mg/wk for 10 weeks. Would Adam and Brandon suddenly be at 200lbs 6% bodyfat at the end of the cycle or would both of them be at different weight and bodyfat?

And in another situation, Charles, 5'7 180lbs 8% bodyfat. He's on his first cycle and he decides to use test e 10g/wk for 10weeks , considering if he ate like his life depended on it and trained as hard as he could, would he suddenly be 240lbs 8%bodyfat by the end of the cycle?

Also, a side question, do site injections (not syntherol but just normal gear) actually help improve muscle gains in the local region? For example if i had weak triceps, and i do 125mg of test e in each head of my tricep(considering if i were to use 500mg a week), over time would it actually help in making it grow? Or if i inject it just prior to training it, would that actually make a difference as to injecting it anywhere else?

Thank you guys in advance for taking the time to read and reply to this super long rambling thread of mine lol.
   
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kubes
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12-22-2013, 06:28 AM

Site injections will not make muscles in the site bigger and the gains will be determined by your nutrition, training, rest and genetics. Not to many gain the same
   
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chrisr116
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12-22-2013, 06:58 AM

10 grams of test a week is a lot of oil..haha

Each person responds differently to these factors.
   
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butthole69
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12-22-2013, 09:10 AM

I don't entirely understand your question, but you have to feed the drugs for them to work. A 100lb dude would have to change his lifestyle and eating habits so drastically to make use of 10k mg of testosterone that it would be nearly impossible. Higher doses quickly become counterproductive and lead to things like loss of appetite and nausea.
   
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The Grim Repper
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12-22-2013, 09:13 AM

In terms of athletic performance, the principle of individual differences dictates that everyone will respond differently to a specific training program. Logic and real world evidence support this concerning PEDs as well.


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RandomBear
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12-22-2013, 10:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by butthole69 View Post
I don't entirely understand your question, but you have to feed the drugs for them to work. A 100lb dude would have to change his lifestyle and eating habits so drastically to make use of 10k mg of testosterone that it would be nearly impossible. Higher doses quickly become counterproductive and lead to things like loss of appetite and nausea.
Yes i do understand what you're saying but what if, just what if hypothetically speaking, the 100lb dude while on the 10g a week cycle were to eat lets say the full diet that would fit a guy who is 200lbs+ would he suddenly be 200lbs by the end of the cycle?
   
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RandomBear
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12-22-2013, 10:14 AM

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Originally Posted by chrisr116 View Post
10 grams of test a week is a lot of oil..haha

Each person responds differently to these factors.
I'm not actually gonna try this lol, i'm just curious as to what will happen if an average dude were to suddenly jump on the IFBB pro cycle and considering that his diet and training were to be perfect, would he actually be 250lbs+ by the end of the cycle or would he still be gaining 20-40lbs max
   
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MightyJohn
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12-22-2013, 10:59 AM

I would say he would get extremely sick on a huge dosage right off the bat...I will also say "pro dose" yadda yadda is bs....I know several pros & some use & some abuse...everyone responds differently
   
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chicken_hawk
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12-22-2013, 11:57 AM

OK, RB your question appears to be genuine and reminds me of the kind of questions I would often ask early on being curious as well. But before I do one caveat, when you ask these things just remember that senior board members and admin are always going to look out for you and your health. They will always encourage hard work over short cuts. That being said, I am going to give my own personal experience and opinions on the matter...however this is NOT advice.

1. Not everyone responds the same which is true, but all things being equal,"the more you take, the more you grow".

2. "The more you take, the more you risk". Your health, finances, marriage etc..

3.It takes YEARS to get huge! Pro's are 20+ years in the making regardless of the amount of gear they take. And no one gains 20lbs and loses bodyfat in any one cycle no matter a year...that is bullshit. if it were true every juice monkey at the gym would be 240lbs with ripped abs. If you can gain 10-15 lbs in a year you are doing great!

4. Find the top of the Bell Curve. There is a point of diminishing returns. I mean that 1000mg of T does not equal twice the results of 500mg. So, experienced bbers look for the "sweet spot". They find the amount that gives them the best results without sides and emptying their wallet.

5. Accept your potential. Too many people do not know themselves or their limits. I am surrounded and this is no lie with at least 1/2 dozen guys who want to go pro. And none of them ever will be. It's all right to dream but be real and your cycles should reflect that reality. See, that dude in my avi, that's me about 7 months ago. That guy will never go pro but he has done two local shows and won three classes. He is now into powerlifting and will never set a record, but so far he has one second place metal locally. So, don't limit yourself, but every smart vet knows who he is and just how far he can go and uses that to set the boundaries of his Rx use, gym time and diet.

Hope that helps,
Hawk


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Last edited by chicken_hawk; 12-22-2013 at 12:18 PM.
   
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Thunder46
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12-22-2013, 12:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicken_hawk View Post
OK, RB your question appears to be genuine and reminds me of the kind of questions I would often ask early on being curious as well. But before I do one caveat, when you ask these things just remember that senior board members and admin are always going to look out for you and your health. They will always encourage hard work over short cuts. That being said, I am going to give my own personal experience and opinions on the matter...however this is NOT advice.

1. Not everyone responds the same which is true, but all things being equal,"the more you take, the more you grow".

2. "The more you take, the more you risk". Your health, finances, marriage etc..

3.It takes YEARS to get huge! Pro's are 20+ years in the making regardless of the amount of gear they take. And no one gains 20lbs and loses bodyfat in any one cycle no matter a year...that is bullshit. if it were true every juice monkey at the gym would be 240lbs with ripped abs. If you can gain 10-15 lbs in a year you are doing great!

4. Find the top of the Bell Curve. There is a point of diminishing returns. I mean that 1000mg of T does not equal twice the results of 500mg. So, experienced bbers look for the "sweet spot". They find the amount that gives them the best results without sides and emptying their wallet.

Hope that helps,
Hawk
Great answer Hawk
   
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The Grim Repper
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12-22-2013, 12:28 PM

Well said Hawk, very well said.


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"How long should I be resting between sets?"
"Well, if we're talking, you should go again."


"To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"
   
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kubes
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12-22-2013, 01:29 PM

Also look at it this way. Had I been eating ten years ago the macros that I eat today I would be putting in unwanted fat because I would not have built up enough muscle tissue to need the calories or to burn them. Everything in this game is a long term goal. Think of it as a marathon not a 100 meter dash. A good friend of mine told me when I first started bodybuilding that nothing comes fast that you are always inching along. Boy he was right

Last edited by kubes; 12-22-2013 at 02:05 PM.
   
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bigpoppie
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12-22-2013, 03:09 PM

For one....Hawk answered very well.
For two....this is about the dumbest question I have ever heard. This is something that would come out of the mouth of a second grader. A100lb. Individual weighing the same as a 180lb. Person in a matter of weeks. Gear isn't like balancing ph in a fish tank! 500mg of test e does not equal a 220lb person. It may equal a 15 lb. Increase in any situation, but that is about it.
I'm sorry but this kind of ignorance should be nowhere near this stuff. It is basic knowledge that it is not a magic shot. Christ if it was I would be ordering the 350lb 8% bodyfat cycle right now.
If I am wrong, could one of you give me directions to Fantasy Land?
Sorry I could not be as mature as the Hawk...
   
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sage74
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12-22-2013, 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim230027 View Post
Site injections will not make muscles in the site bigger and the gains will be determined by your nutrition, training, rest and genetics. Not to many gain the same
Actually injecting in the same spot will stretch the facia of the muscle giving u a bit of a gain but nothing u will really notice. That's why synthrol works, but u would have to pump a lot of gear.
   
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RandomBear
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12-22-2013, 11:53 PM

I'm also kinda curious on another thing, can you actually grow on the same dosage of gear or do you need to increase the dosages each time in order to still make progress?
   
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RandomBear
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12-23-2013, 12:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpoppie View Post
For one....Hawk answered very well.
For two....this is about the dumbest question I have ever heard. This is something that would come out of the mouth of a second grader. A100lb. Individual weighing the same as a 180lb. Person in a matter of weeks. Gear isn't like balancing ph in a fish tank! 500mg of test e does not equal a 220lb person. It may equal a 15 lb. Increase in any situation, but that is about it.
I'm sorry but this kind of ignorance should be nowhere near this stuff. It is basic knowledge that it is not a magic shot. Christ if it was I would be ordering the 350lb 8% bodyfat cycle right now.
If I am wrong, could one of you give me directions to Fantasy Land?
Sorry I could not be as mature as the Hawk...
I know it sounds stupid, but i just wanted to clarify the thought with the help of the veterans on this forum rather than trying to solve it by trying it on myself, which most likely would go very wrong.
   
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Gear dosage = Gains made?
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kubes
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Gear dosage = Gains made? - 12-23-2013, 07:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sage74 View Post
Actually injecting in the same spot will stretch the facia of the muscle giving u a bit of a gain but nothing u will really notice. That's why synthrol works, but u would have to pump a lot of gear.
Much different then synthrol as it absorbs much faster and if you keep pinning the same area you could risk abscess. Just my opinion though
   
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BigBob
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12-23-2013, 06:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Ran***Bear View Post
I'm also kinda curious on another thing, can you actually grow on the same dosage of gear or do you need to increase the dosages each time in order to still make progress?
Yes. Generaly you need more gear the bigger you get. However after you have gotten to the sizes you want you can maintain it with less. You just have to find your sweet spot.
   
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RandomBear
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12-24-2013, 06:00 AM

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Yes. Generaly you need more gear the bigger you get. However after you have gotten to the sizes you want you can maintain it with less. You just have to find your sweet spot.
But after maintaining it with a lower dosage cycle, if you decide to make gains again do you just up the maintainance dosage or up the previous highest dosage that you ran?
   
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BigBob
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12-24-2013, 06:57 AM

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Originally Posted by Ran***Bear View Post
But after maintaining it with a lower dosage cycle, if you decide to make gains again do you just up the maintainance dosage or up the previous highest dosage that you ran?
I guess that really depends on your goals at any particular time. It also depends on how long your Off of gear. I find that the longer I give my body time normalize than my next cycle is more effective.
So thats not a clear answer to the question, but thats how its always worked for me.
   
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