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AnaSCI Interview: IPgear (Suppliers Corner)
theRenegade's Avatar
Posts: 9
Join Date: Nov 2003
AnaSCI Interview: IPgear (Suppliers Corner) - 02-28-2013, 10:21 AM

PART 1 of 2
Interview by: theRenegade

therenegade: Hey bro thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule for this interview. I know your well respected as is the IP name. A lot of guys are really going to want to read this simply because your name is so synonymous with gear.

IPGear: The honor is ours. We really enjoy AnaSCI, it brings back memories of the old boards from the 90's before everything became commercialized. Also these newsletters are great. Every article and interview filled with information that even us older guys can learn from.

therenegade: I know you're really busy so I'll try to make these questions as painless as possible. I don't want you to have give away any of your really private secrets.

IPGear: Our biggest secret is who we are, lol. Other then that we will try to be as open and honest in our answers as we possibly can be.

therenegade: Okay so the number one thing I always ask sources is "how did you get started?".

IPGear: It was a combination of factors really and I guess the biggest one was I began juicing and needed to support what was going to become quite a habit. In addition, IP who has been a friend now for many years was willing to front me to get started. So I started selling hardwood and then added post cycle supplements. But the real money has always been in the juice, and so after a year or two, I began to sell the whole IP product line.

therenegade: You've been around a very long time. How do you stay so competitive in a market that has really changed and gotten more competitive over the years?

IPGear: Treat people as you would want to be treated whether supplier or customer. Maintain your integrity, never accept money for product you don't have on the shelf, continually access your exposure and minimize it wherever possible, stay positive, and when the shit hits the fan, own your own shit.

We just continue to do what we always have, provide a service and a
product that has been around for about 20 years now. We work our assess off on the boards and in the accounts. Ultimately it does not matter what you do as it is the customer that decides a sources fate in this business. After over 12 years of doing this we have been fortunate and blessed enough to gain a great following of loyal customers. And God willing we will be able to continue to do what we do for a long time to come.

therenegade: IP has been around so long and has seen so many changes what do you think is in store for the AAS community in regards to new products in the comings years? Not to long ago it was simply AAS and GH, then pro-hormones came and now its peptides. Do you see anything new coming into the community? I know you guys are on the forefront.

IPGear: We have never seriously deviated from gear and do not sell GH today simply because we do not have the insight into the manufacturing or the product itself to be able to sell it with confidence. In a program like ours, it was not a big enough revenue producer to warrant dealing with the negatives that invariably pop up when you are selling GH these days. Now after 18 months we are confident that, for us, that was a good decision. As far as pro-hormones and peptides, in a gear program, there's not enough money to warrant the additional exposure created as you market and sell these items while associated with a program like ours. When you
got guys out there who not only understands these products, their value, their use, but also has a good program in place to produce and meet the demand, breaking into that market even if there is potential
money to be made would be challenging to say the least. The greater money and the greater risk appears to be where its always been, in the roids.

therenegade: Speaking of being around so long...sources like you guys don't stay around as long as you do by being stupid and careless. Tell me a little bit about what kind of precautions you guys take to protect yourself and your customers? With LE all over these boards now you can never be too careful.

IPGear: The only chance beyond fate, luck, or God, to stay around is a
continual re-evaluation of exposure and a minimizing of risk wherever
possible. In the beginning we all handled gear, we all received money in the mail, we had many friends? on the boards, and over-confidence and greed often blinded us. Most busts should not occur, but when does, it pays to critique them and identify what they did to contribute to their own failure. Or what someone else did to contribute to their failure. There are no friends in this business and few people can ever be trusted to the inner workings of your program. The guys that have their assess out there are the shippers and they should be well compensated and everything that can be done to minimize their risk should be done. But you can lead a horse to water, but unfortunately you cant make him drink. Therefore we have our share of busts, and again, when they are critiqued, they generally reveal serious, costly lapses in judgement. In theory, the only thing a shipper should ever get popped with is a few unopened packs that he has no idea what the contents are. Finally, there are few people that have much of a value to a program after they have been popped and where ever possible, no one associated should have a criminal record.

therenegade: Now on the other flip side...what do you do about customers you feel are info collectors or out to do something shady? Do you have any instances you can share where you have had customers do some shady things that you had to cut them loose?

IPGear: Honestly, Gear users are good guys and so losses to scammers like busts are actually rather rare. They do occur and most recently, these couple of phucks from Texas who were loyal customers for some time that decided that they were going to go a head and scam us. They took our program for about $10,000 in a series of orders that we were not able to detect in time. We figured that we owed it to them to provide their personal information here for any source viewing the newsletter to see and take note of:

4406 Bobbie Ann dr
Granbury,tx 76049
Daniel Taranova
4407 Nolan creek ct
Granbury,Tx 76049
Richard Ulsup
1011 W Chestnut #10
Denton. Tx 76201
HURST, TX 76053

We have however evaluated and implemented protocol to keep something like this from happening again. Something like that hurts our truly loyal customers more then us because it we can easily recoup the loss but our customers are the ones that feel the sting of the new protocols put in place.

You can eliminate all scamming, but sometimes the controls required
negatively affect delivery times and in this business delivery times are
about the top of the list of what's important for success. Whether its a
supplier who phucks you or a customer, or an offshore company, anytime your losses are less then 10% in a year you are doing pretty good.

therenegade: How do you guys feel about all these new sources popping up? Seems not too long ago it was almost impossible to find a source if you hadn't been on the boards shorter than 6 months. Now you can find them at the click of a mouse. Doesn't that seem like such a huge security risk to not only the community in general but for other sources?

IPGear: In general we believe two things about other sources. It never pays to call them out as its rather unprofessional and none of us are perfect. And also, we all were new once and we all needed support initially to overcome the resistance that's inherent in the market place starting out. But the reality is that most don't know how to protect themselves let alone anyone else and but for rare instances, they aren't bringing any product that's been proven over time to be good.

therenegade: What do you think about so many sources offering raw materials now?

IPGear: We have never been a big fan of dealing in raws. Not only are you taking the chance in getting hit with a manufacturing charge, which ultimately can hurt everyone in our program and essentially end it but you also have to deal with making sure that you are producing sterile product that isn't going to kill your customers.

therenegade: What about the sources that are not only taking all the risk to import them into the states but then to turn around and list them and sell them ***estically.

IPGear: We believe that is foolish on many levels. One being you take
enough risk trying to import finished product without even mentioning the risks associated with importing raws. Second you are only hurting the sourcing market because that is where all of these new sources are coming from. Anyone can buy some raws now easily and start brewing gear in their parents basement. Buy a label marker from Office Max and there you go a new source with their own brand. They can sell the product dirt cheap because it cost them phuck all to buy, they didn't occurring any of the risk in having to receive the product, so it is essentially pure profit.

With the way the forums are now you do not need to be known to get an advertising spot out there, as long as you pay your ad fees you are good to go. You brew your gear, throw up a banner, list your 'new' brand of product $20+ cheaper per vial then any source on there and you have the orders rolling in. The sad thing is 90% of the time the customer's wallet will dictate where they go and they will jump on that 'awesome' deal without ever considering how that product was made, who it was made by and where did this new found brand come from. They only see the bottom dollar figure.

therenegade: And ultimately this is where the scam ends up happening.

IPGear: Correct. As you can easily see on the boards, after some time
people posting up saying they are not receiving responses to their emails and they never received their orders. Because that 'new' source ran out of raws and products and their source may not have them available at that time to replenish, so the 'new' source says phuck it, let's go out with a big bang and make another quick $10-20k before going under again. And we see this coming all the time and just sit back and shake our heads. That source is already not filling orders so what do they do, jump on the forums and tell everyone that things are being taken care and all emails have been answered. Right after that they create a thread stating a Huge Blow Out Sale going on for a couple of days. Just like that they scored another big chunk of cash to go out with!

therenegade: Yes I think to myself all the time when I see it, how can
these members be so careless with their money? I mean they are already complaining that they don't have the money to spend on higher priced gear that the long time sources offers yet they just give their money away to these new guys without a thought and in the end receive nothing for it?

IPGear: It is an expensive life style we are living in so we understand
that people want to save and get the most for their money but at what cost? The cost of their health on products that they do not know how they were made? The cost of their money, not knowing if or when they are going to get burnt? It is a crap-shoot no matter how you look at it every time you make an order. There is always that chance that the source is going to go down, turn scammer or get burnt themselves. Like has been said for countless years now, never spend more then you can afford to lose.

Of course everyone wants to get the cheaper roids but any source,
especially ******** that is dropping their prices so low only to corner
the market and make the quick sale is not in it for the long haul and to us that means that they do not truly respect or appreciate the risks that their remailers and shippers take. These guys are the ones that make it happen and they must be compensated well for their risks.

therenegade: Well on that note, let's end this first part of the interview there. Give the reader something to think about regarding sources and safely investing their money in their orders.

I appreciate the time you have taken out of your busy schedule to answer some of our questions and look forward to continuing our conversation again. Thanks!

IPGear: Our pleasure. We look forward to it.
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Posts: 9
Join Date: Nov 2003
04-01-2013, 09:21 AM

PART 2 of 2
Interview by: theRenegade

therenegade: We're back again for another issue of the AnaSCI Newsletter! Once again we have IPGear with us to finish our interview from the last issue. Thanks again IPG for taking the time to sit down with us today.

IPGear: No problem. We hope that the readers enjoyed it and was able to take something away from the previous newsletter. We know we enjoyed reading the other articles and interviews of the newsletter. It's a wealth of knowledge.

therenegade: Yes these newsletters just keep getting better and better! Old guys like us find something new in each one that we never knew. A lot of great contributors from the ones writing the articles to the ones giving the interviews!

Ok, so let's get back to it then, shall we. I will try to make the rest of
this interview quick and painless and let you get back to your work.

IPGear: We are ready. But before we get going I would like to touch a little more on the scammers, particularly the Geneforza and the "peptide guru" Osiris (Norman Smallwood) affairs.

We have been doing this for a very long time and have seen pretty much everything this business has to offer or throw at you at one time or another. We have seen scamming sources, scamming customers and scamming remailers.

It takes pretty good guys to play this game successfully for as long as we have been doing it. Guys who honestly face their circumstances, and don't take money for product they don't possess. We have no sympathy for guys who chose to scam rather than be honest and step up.

Personally knowing the two guys GF owes $60K and the 6 months of deceptive responses from GF as well as all the excuses and misdirection that he and his reps continued to give members regarding their orders shows the type of people that are in this business now. When all was said and done GF made a good moving-on fee of over $100k. Not a bad amount for being nothing more then a scammer. And to be honest to all the readers out there, Sky_Cowboy was one of GF's remailers, so anyone that is wondering
what happen he may be a good place to start looking for answers. GF was always speaking poorly of Sky_Cowboy stating that he was always complaining about being broke, so hopefully GF was kind enough to share some of the profit with him.

As for Osiris. Norman Smallwood preached God about as highly as he did himself. Has a large group of followers (friends), who believe his every word. As we have always been told, "If you give a person enough time, they will show their true colors!", and that is exactly what he did. Norm showed where his faith lied - in greed, deceit and constant lies. When all was said and done good ole Norm got over on at least 3 suppliers that we know of for about $300k+ worth of product. Not to shabby for a man of faith and God. Yet his friends continue to back him to the end?

My opinion: The world has always been filled with more compromisers than not. Not sure why! But if you find someone who isn't? That's a very special thing. It requires a belief beyond yourself or your phucked up friends. It ain't natural! But its the only way I know to go! Keep seeking the higher ground, the natural ground, and you will see something no one else will ever see. Someone who sees you are special. I love IP for this reason!

therenegade: Yes Geneforza always came off as a used car salesman. Never liked that guy. Always running the same scam that has been plaguing the boards for some time: stop sending orders but put out the quick "Can't Miss" sale to grab as many more customers as you can before word gets out that you are not delivering. Seeing this a lot more with sources lately and it is getting tougher for the customer because there are so many "trusted" members repping for these sources for their free product that members have no reason not to trust the supplier. I like the new rule about reps being held accountable for the actions of their chosen sources to rep. Should put a little bit of balance back into things once some of these long time vets get banned for being as shady as the sources they are working with!

Personally I never trusted Osiris (Norm), he has always been a shady
character. Going back to the beginning of the bodybuilding internet, guys like us have seen every type of "guru" there is out there. People always fall into their web of bullshit. Osiris is a piece of shit in my book and I have no respect for anyone that stands behind him or his actions. His entire group is filled with snakes as far as I am concerned, I wouldn't trust any of them. All of them knew what he was doing. Shit here is a quote by one of his buddies (a well respected member) who knew everything Osiris was doing:

Big O...if you see this just know you have friends. I hope all is well
Wonder if his quote would have been different if he was one of those
countless customers waiting for their order that Osiris burned them for? Even had the nerve to add in the little 'wink smiley' obviously because he knew the situation going on. But that is the new group of "trusted" members on the boards now. They will rep for anyone for free product, bullshitting members out of their money just as long as they get their shit, backing scumbags like Norm because he didn't screw them over so they do not care. Really trust-worthy?? The regular members should really take note to this and not be so blind when trusting these clowns just because they can build some muscle. Having a physique or making some bullshit posts doesn't change the type of person you are!!

IPGear: Well it is not for us to judge their decisions or actions. We
leave that in the hands of a higher power. We truly believe that there is a God and that he sees everything. People make their own choices freely, they are the ones that have to live with the consequences and have to look in the mirror at the person they truly are, not the person that they would have others perceive them to be. Unfortunately it is just as easy to lie to themselves about who they are as it is to lie to the world. Very sad!

therenegade: Well said, very true!!

Ok, let's get off that subject for a bit as it just sickens me to even
think about people like them!! Those are the ones that deserve to be
busted not the guys that are staying loyal, providing a service that keeps those pieces of shit able to continue juicing in the first place!!

Let's talk a little about payment methods. Most long time sources accept only western union or money gram or some other secure form of payment but now you see guys popping up accepting paypal and credit cards. Is that something you are okay with or do you shake your head at it? I mean isn't that a huge paper trail?

IPGear: Western Union and Money Gram remain our first and only choices today simply because we are unwilling to risk the exposure that comes with other methods. We will not consider an alternative until we have to and as it stands today, we don't have to. I suspect you are right about the paper trail and if that's at all connected to you personally you are way out there on the limb.

therenegade: I completely agree. I have even noticed more recently that some of these new sources are even using their real details when sending payment info to their customers.

IPGear: Now that has to be the most foolish thing you could ever do,
period. You have to always continue to minimize your risk and that surely does not accomplish that. That in fact is going in the opposite direction! Phuck, paypal is bad enough considering that it must be attached to your bank account which is a big enough paper trail but now you take out any leg work that LE has to do by providing your real details?? Only a matter of moments before you go down doing something like that. And again it will be the customer that pays the price because in the end those outstanding orders will not be shipped and there is a big chance that LE will end up with that source's computer and everything left inside because let's be honest, if the source's operation is so flawed in the payment pickup department you can safely assume that their computer safety protocols are even worse.

therenegade: Again, I completely agree. Commonsense is lacking greatly in this new school source and has much to do with the "entitlement generation" thinking they are untouchable. I mean everyone knows LE is all over the boards, plain fact. Yet I read through some of these sponsor threads and see the sources 'reps' talk about texting the source sending them messages discussing orders and such. How absolutely careless can you be?

IPGear: See we have always made it a point to never bother following what any other source does with their businesses, on the boards and in their lives. Too many things that you can just shake your head at and we do not have the time to wonder why a person does what they do. None of the partners in IPG can identify any of the others and that is how it should be. None of the partners handle gear anymore and are in the safest position that this job can possible offer (if there is such a place) and yet we still have protocols set in place to continue minimizing risk. Texting is a major risk, no two ways about it. And giving your phone number to a person that is not even in the core of the group to begin with? Another recipe for failure.

therenegade: Speaking of other sources, most of them have remailers, international guys especially since they need some type of ******** business, because lets face it, getting things through customs isn't easy. You need to be really creative to get things to pass through, how do you pick and choose your remailers? You hear a lot of stories these days about remailers ripping off sources. A few sources have closed shop recently because of this? Do you have remailers and if so how do you make sure they stay in line and don't try to rip you off?

IPGear: Yes its our remailers that do the work and incur the greatest
risk. Its a crap-shoot no matter how you pick them. To the best of your ability, you screen them for negatives before bringing them on. No criminal record, no local dealing, no other relationships that could
interfere with the program, honest, with a good work ethic. About 70% of the time, you can find good guys and have a win-win relationship. But a dishonest, incompetent, rec-user, or local seller can hurt or destroy a program. You minimize your risk by controlling inventory levels and when the decision to terminate is made you most likely have to whittle away their inventory as far as you can, and when it becomes obvious to them what you are doing, try to negotiate out a settlement. Like any other business, there are sometimes high costs associated with terminating someone. They should be well paid, given as good of an orientation as possible which should include protocols for remaining as safe as possible working in a shipping and receiving capacity.

therenegade: I've been around so long that I have heard a lot of crazy
stories regarding IP. That he has had to move numerous times because LE was closing in on him, that they had his family and he had to ship out from middle eastern countries because he couldn't go back to his homeland because he would be arrested on the spot? I even heard stories that he had been killed or died a few times. Just really crazy things over the years. When you get as popular as the IP brand, there are going to be some haters that try to bring down that brand. Are any of these stories true?

IPGear: I guess if anyone would know the truth about the rumors we would, but we don't. The man we talk to today is the same man we talked to in the Renegade days, so it has been the same person since the late 90's. What we know about IP is he's first and foremost a good man and shares many of the values related to the business we do. Over the years he has helped a number of us and never asked for anything in return. He has brought more high dosed product to the ******** market than anyone else.He however has mellowed some, but because of his inability to trust others within his own program, he often truly works 18 hour days and his home life over the years had paid a high price for his involvement. The haters will never appreciate how much he moves, how few complaints he gets, how hard he works, or how big his losses are when they occur. The haters also never appreciate that their negative comments are thrown in with about 50,000 positive customers comments and whether you are talking product or service they just don't amount to much in the big picture.

therenegade: Now actually getting to the gear itself. IP is the original
underground brand. So much so some guys have proclaimed IP the king. I have to say I'd somewhat agree with the assessment since the IP brand has been around so long and has been so successful, how is the quality control of the IP brand these days?

IPGear: Its all manufactured and bottled in China today and it has a
complaint rate somewhere around 1% in our program across the product line. Gone are the days of filling in our kitchens. Since about 2005 we have only seen finished product. Having said that, there are bumps in the road. In September customs was screening for glass and IP lost almost everything he shipped. Therefore in an effort to survive, which is the bottom line, sometimes, he changed over to a medical grade HDPE - High density Polyethylene, unbreakable vial that is no longer glass. The HDPE used in these new vials costs a lot more then glass vials and they have to be specially ordered but the up side is they cannot be copied at this time. These are the types of changes being implemented that has kept IP and ultimately IPG in business for so many years. So you will be seeing the entire IP oil line changing over to these new HDPE vials over the next few months. But when someone criticizes the method or the material, please keep in mind that when most all others have gone under over the years IP has continued to survive. He knows the market and he knows what needs to be done to stay a head of the game. Customers don't like change but need to understand in this business if you don't continue to change with the times then you are doomed to fall into LE's hands at some point.

therenegade: The reason I asked that question is because over the years people have had mixed reviews as all sources do. I mean you can't keep everybody happy but if IP didn't have great gear IP wouldn't still be in business. What do you see as the most popular sellers as far as product goes these days. Is it still the king of the roids, test, deca, and dbol or have more of the exotic steroids taken over?

IPGear: Most all the BD line whether tabs or oils are pretty much
complaint free and in many cases they get heavily promoted. Our customer comments in the sponsors sections on the boards and elsewhere reveal that there are few negatives reported by our customers. QV rates about that high although the 25ml BD vials are a better value and therefore we sell three times as much BD. The ancillaries are IP and I do not remember complaints about them beyond something like Cialis which unfairly gets pinned as the problem when someone cant get it up. We don't censor our threads so they really do pretty much represent our customers experiences and feelings about the service and the products.

therenegade: Speaking of taking over, tell me a little bit about the
decision to take over the QV Mexican brand. Rumors and stories have stated that IP actually bought the license for QV and some have stated that they just decided the counterfeit the labels. What the real story and why when IP is their own successful brand decide to take over a Mexican brand? Why QV and not Denkall, Animal Power, or even Ttokkyo. (Disclaimer: hell some guys reading this are so young they don't even know who Ttokkyo was.)

IPGear: Only 3 or 4 guys in the world know the truth and we or anyone else commenting about it do not. I personally have never asked IP as it never really matter all that much to me. Its a mute point really, as the Mexican brands are long gone and (The Real?) BD has come and gone over the years a couple times. When they are operating, they get mileage I assume by claiming theirs is the real deal. But you would have to be pretty naive not to know that our customers over the last 8 years have voted over and over again with their wallets. We don't keep track of anything but our own program, but someone much wiser than me once said: testosterone, is
testosterone is testosterone, whether its from, US, Europe, Mexico, China, or anywhere else. That's not entirely true, but in regards to the above question its been born out over time.

therenegade: So what can we expect from IP in the future?

IPGear: Pretty much what we have always done. Its a business that could be gone tomorrow. Its a hard business, people and their families get hurt. But the discussion of whether steroids are good or bad we leave to others. For us, its been the best and the worst of times. But isn't that everyone's life?

In addition, as we tried to say above, there's not a better community in the world that we would rather be associated in business with. God Bless and protect it!

therenegade: Well I don't want to take up too much more of your time. The readers really will appreciate you taking the time to answer these questions. A couple more questions and then we're done. First what is a normal day for IPGear?

IPGear: Today its someone managing the account from 6am - Midnight. In the evening orders and payments are assigned. That's the customers service part and I will avoid sharing what a shipper's day is like. I am sure your readers have a fairly good idea. They are the ones who make it all happen. The rest is more of a facilitation, albeit the most time consuming which takes away from our real lives and time with our families as we are in the accounts for most of the entire day and night.

therenegade: Yes I would assume with you guys being at the top of the food chain that there is not much down time for your real lives.

Any last comments you would like to send to all of Osiris' (Norm) friends out there reading this today (actually any friends of scammers that think things are fine as long as they're not the ones being scammed)?

IPGear: Just a word of caution for to any of his friends, which are obviously better friends then he is - A thief and liar does not pick and choose who they steal from or lie to, they will to anyone at any given moment. An immoral person knows no other way - Take this for what it is worth and just stay safe and stay aware.

But even with all the compromisers out there the interview has left me more saddened then anything else as I recall the price truly loyal guys paid for getting involved. There are some heroes in there. Guys who owned their own shit. You guys know who you are and my prayer has always been, that I too will walk through the fire and not compromise myself. The haters can say whatever they want, but one thing they just cannot pin on me or the guys around me is: That we never compromised our integrity. We haven't, and God willing we won't! At least we can always say with our heads held high that we are not the Osiris' or Geneforza's of the industry. Enough of those now as it is!

therenegade: Osiris wouldn't be the first to do this, remember the Kenny Milne (km2000) and Stan Szeto (BigBadAsian) days, where they signed CI agreements as soon as he was arrested before even being processed. People seem to think because someone has a great build, plenty of muscle mass and a high post count that they can be trusted. Guys need to remember that this is the internet and there are very few true friends made. You will never really know a person until you have seen them face the fire, only then will the truth be made clear!! Osiris is just another piece of shit that has shown who he really is!!

Many great people have fallen over the years. If you stay in long enough, this business is bound to take you in one way or another! I am glad that you have weathered the storms and continued to stay around longer then any other source out there going today. I wish you only the best IPG!

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer these questions. IP is one of the best brands around the world and for good reason! Thanks for giving some of the loyal IP customers a glimpse inside their source.

IPGear: It was a pleasure! Sincerely, IPG
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