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How important is going to failure when training for hypertrophy?
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Dyers Eve
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How important is going to failure when training for hypertrophy? - 03-31-2018, 01:20 PM

The more I read and hear, failure does not seem to be very important when training for hypertrophy.
Volume seems to be the king along with progessively getting stronger over time.
I've always been one to train to failure on most sets, but after reading all the studies maybe I've been doing it wrong all along.
I'm going to start training till I have about 1 or 2 reps left in the tank and then stop the set.
Adding one set to each body part every other week (I train each body part now 2x a week), to increase volume over time.
Also I will try to add weight to the bar every week or two.
Along with a good diet and cycle I'm excited to see what the next few months will produce.
I'm looking for any feedback from members here that already train this way and how well they seem to grow over time.
   
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Marshall
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03-31-2018, 01:47 PM

Time under tension and recovery.
   
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rmtt
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03-31-2018, 01:56 PM

Lee Haney always said stimulate...not annihilate.

In my experience.....it really doesn't matter as long as there is some type of progression going on.

Whether that be weight, reps, volume, reduced rest between sets, etc.

I've run the gambit in my lifetime. Powerlifting, DC, GVT, DUP......but it always comes down to leaving the gym having bested what you did the last time.

Keep in mind that deloads or active recovery play a role in this as well....even if at most to give the Central Nervous System a break.

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Concreteguy
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03-31-2018, 05:24 PM

Before starting the Fortitude training I believed you had to fail a muscle. That was the only way to evoke adaptation (GROWTH) to happen. Now that I'm Fortitude training and hitting the muscle from all kinds of rep ranges and intensities I'm positive my first answer is incorrect. I believe a mix of reps ranges balanced with the appropriate weight to merit those reps mixed with intermittent failure wins the day. I cant begin to tell you all how happy I am with FT training. Think about it. If this is working wonders on me at my age how is it going to perform on you younger guys that still have everything poppin?
   
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roadglide83
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03-31-2018, 05:47 PM

There are many ways to promote tissue growth...training to failure is just one one of many tools in the arsenal to promote growth...increasing load or volume, increasing time under tension or doing same load in shorter amount of time...I believe there are many ways to increase intensity or promote hypertrophy and sometimes when you canít always go heavier due to injuries or joints that are just not capable of the stress you look for other ways like training to failure or more volume and less weight or more time under tension etc.
   
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Victory
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04-01-2018, 10:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadglide83 View Post
There are many ways to promote tissue growth...training to failure is just one one of many tools in the arsenal to promote growth...increasing load or volume, increasing time under tension or doing same load in shorter amount of time...I believe there are many ways to increase intensity or promote hypertrophy and sometimes when you canít always go heavier due to injuries or joints that are just not capable of the stress you look for other ways like training to failure or more volume and less weight or more time under tension etc.
I agree. It's just one way to build muscle. Over the last few years I have learnt that going to failure is definitely not needed to build muscle. It was strange at first holding back on most sets but I feel in the long run my body looked better for it.
   
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Sully
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04-01-2018, 04:17 PM

Training to failure is just another way to stimulate the muscles and cause adaptation. It’s no different than drop sets, super sets, pyramids, reverse pyramids, high rep sets and low rep sets, or any other variation one can add to their training program. They are all ways to vary a stimulus and cause adaptation in the body. The more you vary the stimulus that the muscles are exposed to, the more adaptation the body is forced into.

There is a time and place for all of those variants, but I would never use any of them all the time. Constantly applying the same stimulus causes the muscles to become adapted to it, and no longer produces the same changes in metabolic response. You should use all those techniques, but as part of a properly periodized training regimen.


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AGGRO
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04-02-2018, 03:25 PM

It's important in my training but I don't think it is needed to make good muscle gains. There are many ways to stimulate muscle growth. Although I feel going to failure results in faster adaptation and more progression in the long run.
   
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G-FLUX
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04-02-2018, 03:33 PM

Just to echo what everyone is saying here, I think the better question is how important is OVERLOAD when training for hypertrophy?

THAT to me is a no brainer and an absolute. You need to progressively overload in some fashion to grow...whether that be an increase in volume, intensity, tension, some novel stimulus, etc.
   
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Steelex
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04-02-2018, 11:57 PM

We all have a very different idea of what failure is. I know I can't crank a set of squats nearly as far into the abyss as Tom Platz could. Failure can be a multitude of things, too much pain, lack of energy in the muscle, CNS failure, weak mentality OR actual muscle failure. Kinda hard to tell unless you know your body very well. I know I can go way harder now than I did a few years ago. I'll be able to reach new levels of intensity next year.

With that said intensity/volume/frequency/recovery all have to be managed and balanced. If I do a 30 set leg day with as much intensity as I can muster but it takes me 8 days to hit legs again and totally fucks my deadlift/back training 3 days later, then I'm being unproductive. But what if I can hit legs with 6-8 really hard sets across 3 exercises, come back in 4 days later and add 2.5lbs onto the bar? Repeat that as much as possible...

My mentality (and I guess this falls into the DC train of thought) was that I just need to do as much as I need to produce a response. That can be accomplished with a combination of intensity and volume (which is unique to the individual) and you match that up with the right frequency. Would going to failure on a straight set be better than going close to failure on 3 sets, and getting way more time under tension and keeping intensity high? I don't know but as long as I can keep adding a little bit of weight every 4 days I don't think it matters.
   
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04-03-2018, 12:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concreteguy View Post
Before starting the Fortitude training I believed you had to fail a muscle. That was the only way to evoke adaptation (GROWTH) to happen. Now that I'm Fortitude training and hitting the muscle from all kinds of rep ranges and intensities I'm positive my first answer is incorrect. I believe a mix of reps ranges balanced with the appropriate weight to merit those reps mixed with intermittent failure wins the day. I cant begin to tell you all how happy I am with FT training. Think about it. If this is working wonders on me at my age how is it going to perform on you younger guys that still have everything poppin?
The "at my age" thing is how i think. As I've gotten older (last 10 years lol ) i train with volume and mixed rep ranges. Mostly higher rep ranges - but 1-2 sets of 5-6 reps and rotating weeks of this being tear off drop sets. Every 4th week or so negatives are in the mix for a week.
Its joint friendly and i have rapid recovery.
Its no particular style other than my own because I've found it works!
One thing that occurs with these high rep ranges is of course increased time under tension.
Now... I'm not as strong as what i could be but i look better and it works for "me" and joints/tendons stay well.
Every time i try a different way i always go back to this way.
Its very intense and i have to be cardio fit to do it.
Ive found the amount of work i do is about 3 times what anyone I've noticed doing.
No more than a minute break.

Addendum : after a certain age (whatever that is to you) and decades of training, there comes a point where adding weight is more detrimental. That's where volume becomes your friend :-)

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04-03-2018, 02:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-FLUX View Post
Just to echo what everyone is saying here, I think the better question is how important is OVERLOAD when training for hypertrophy?

THAT to me is a no brainer and an absolute. You need to progressively overload in some fashion to grow...whether that be an increase in volume, intensity, tension, some novel stimulus, etc.
I agree. There has to be progression in training over time otherwise results won't take place unless diet and drugs are changed. It's about making constant little changes in all areas over time. The body adapts to change and needs different stimuli to produce a different result. I train harder in all areas than I did 3 or 10 years ago. It also keeps training more fun as doing the same thing week after week only gets boring.
   
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odin
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04-03-2018, 08:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmtt View Post
Keep in mind that deloads or active recovery play a role in this as well....even if at most to give the Central Nervous System a break.

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I believe that plays a massive role. Crazy workouts are great but there needs to be sufficient recovery to make those crazy workouts effective. Progressive overload is very important but people also need to know when to back off.


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SURGE
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04-10-2018, 05:40 AM

It can be important but not required. Muscles needs to be tested and reach new limits of strength and endurance if they are going to grow consistently over time. Nutrition and drugs can take you a long way. But for the best gains you need to go to places you haven't been before in regards to all areas and training is no different.
   
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b-boy
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04-10-2018, 08:44 AM

intensity
   
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