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Why im considering short burst cycles
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roadglide83
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Why im considering short burst cycles - 03-31-2018, 10:42 PM

So I have been crusing for about 8 weeks now and thinking I’m going to start a cycle this week and have been racking my brain about what to do. I’m 35 and my competitive days are on hold due to work and school plus I’m more conscious of my health and let’s face it I’ll never turn pro or even be a national level competition so my priorities are changing.

I still have issues coming off gear for any length of time and it’s rare and far between for me to mentally drop down to 250mg test for 4-8 weeks so I am thinking of doing 4 week on 4 week off/cruise cycles to force me to come off for the time I was in and utilize shorter esters and most likely just test and one other compound. I will also use GH/humalog during the 4 week cycles and then come down to only 250mg during my 4 week cruise. Part of this is to see how each compound responds because let’s be honest when your doing a stack of 3-5 compounds it’s hard to tell what’s doing what.

I’m going to keep my test around 500mg/week on the blast and then the other compound somewhere around 300-500mg depending on what it is so that way my total amount stays under 1g total. My GH on the blast will be around 5iu daily in one bolus amount pre workout and then 2iu daily during cruise. My humalog will be around 4-8iu depending on what I’m training and my carb intake.

My diet is going to consist on very high protein around 400g and then small amounts of added fats on my lean protein meals like avocados, almonds, whole eggs. My carbs will be only taken in pre/intra/post workout and will be around 200-250g training days and only around 30-60 on of days to keep me lean and insulin sensitivity high.

My training is a 3 day push/pull/legs split lifting between 4-5 days per week. Lower total volume on loading days and moderate volume on “pump” days. I try to beat my log book but due to years of lifting and injuries my training is also very instinctive and if I need to take 2 days off in a row or go light for a week I do it on the fly and don’t stay married to my program if I need to make adjustments.

In the past I have always responded very quickly to cycles but seem to loose steam mentally and also physically around the 6-8 week mark so hopefully this will allow me to stay fresh mentally and physically and also give my body a semi healthier way of trying to still make progress without destroying my body and health.

Let me know your thoughts and I was debating on doing a very detailed log also. I’m starting around 240lbs right now maybe 10% bodyfat? And coming off a 250mg/week test cruise.
   
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Concreteguy
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04-01-2018, 08:57 AM

On 4 and then low doses for 4? I wonder what the hormone rhythm would look like on a chart? It will remain up after you return to low dosing for a couple weeks(titrating down) and then what are you looking at by week 4 of low dosing? I'm guessing your low weeks wont be an actual 4 week period.

I would assume an average between your high and low almost as a cruise. Now if you were juggling compounds that would seriously rock the boat. IMO. A log would be interesting.
   
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odin
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04-01-2018, 05:52 PM

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Originally Posted by Concreteguy View Post
On 4 and then low doses for 4? I wonder what the hormone rhythm would look like on a chart? It will remain up after you return to low dosing for a couple weeks(titrating down) and then what are you looking at by week 4 of low dosing? I'm guessing your low weeks wont be an actual 4 week period.

I would assume an average between your high and low almost as a cruise. Now if you were juggling compounds that would seriously rock the boat. IMO. A log would be interesting.
I agree. My friend always tells me he comes off for 4 weeks like he is being healthy when in fact the high dosed test and deca he just ran will probably be lower for 1 week out of the 4 off and then he is back on blast. Even with short esters they take time to come down so if health is a concern 4 weeks on/off is not a great approach. OP your doses don't sound too bad but I would extend your off periods by a few weeks to allow some down time between blasts. I would also keep your cruise going steady the whole way through so that never changes but everything else is dropped. If your cruises are this short I would also recommend a much lower dose such as 125mg.


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04-01-2018, 06:33 PM

I have had good success with 6 week cycles. My time off would vary between 4 to 8 weeks. I would usually run short esters or start off high with long esters but stop them earlier on. So if I ever used sust, test e, deca or eq ect I would stop after 4 weeks if doing 6 weeks total. I liked using test p, mast p, npp, primo a and orals. With a 250mg cruise dose you could afford to cruise longer and maintain gains well.
   
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roadglide83
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04-01-2018, 08:30 PM

Thanks guys I appreciate the input. I might think about extending the blast to around 6 weeks and maybe 6-8 weeks cruise and stick with the shorter esters. I’ll keep you updated.
   
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bill2
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04-02-2018, 05:41 PM

Maybe you should read building the perfect beast 1 and 2 by L.Rea .. He advocates short blasts with short cruises but with an interesting cycling approach


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04-02-2018, 07:12 PM

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Originally Posted by bill2 View Post
Maybe you should read building the perfect beast 1 and 2 by L.Rea .. He advocates short blasts with short cruises but with an interesting cycling approach


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Yeah I have read some of his stuff and it’s deff very interesting and different than the normal. I might wait for a bit before I pull the trigger.
   
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striffe
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04-03-2018, 03:05 AM

I sometimes plan to run short blast cycles but I always end up extending things! One day I need to stick to plan and do something similar. 4 on 6 off using long and short esters would probably be my plan.
   
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04-03-2018, 08:46 AM

Shorter exposure to shorter esters may possibly help to mediate the potential cardiac consequences from compounds like nandrolones, as well. Structuring cycles with an eye toward long term health is never the wrong answer.


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04-06-2018, 01:51 PM

In the past I have run longer cycles but rotated compound every 4 weeks. AAS will work no matter how you run them but I do like to keep my body guessing.
   
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AGGRO
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04-06-2018, 01:52 PM

Can't edit my post. Just wanted to input these days my cycles are very basic and usually 12 weeks on 8 weeks off.
   
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04-06-2018, 06:31 PM

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Originally Posted by roadglide83 View Post
So I have been crusing for about 8 weeks now and thinking I’m going to start a cycle this week and have been racking my brain about what to do. I’m 35 and my competitive days are on hold due to work and school plus I’m more conscious of my health and let’s face it I’ll never turn pro or even be a national level competition so my priorities are changing.

I still have issues coming off gear for any length of time and it’s rare and far between for me to mentally drop down to 250mg test for 4-8 weeks so I am thinking of doing 4 week on 4 week off/cruise cycles to force me to come off for the time I was in and utilize shorter esters and most likely just test and one other compound. I will also use GH/humalog during the 4 week cycles and then come down to only 250mg during my 4 week cruise. Part of this is to see how each compound responds because let’s be honest when your doing a stack of 3-5 compounds it’s hard to tell what’s doing what.

I’m going to keep my test around 500mg/week on the blast and then the other compound somewhere around 300-500mg depending on what it is so that way my total amount stays under 1g total. My GH on the blast will be around 5iu daily in one bolus amount pre workout and then 2iu daily during cruise. My humalog will be around 4-8iu depending on what I’m training and my carb intake.

My diet is going to consist on very high protein around 400g and then small amounts of added fats on my lean protein meals like avocados, almonds, whole eggs. My carbs will be only taken in pre/intra/post workout and will be around 200-250g training days and only around 30-60 on of days to keep me lean and insulin sensitivity high.

My training is a 3 day push/pull/legs split lifting between 4-5 days per week. Lower total volume on loading days and moderate volume on “pump” days. I try to beat my log book but due to years of lifting and injuries my training is also very instinctive and if I need to take 2 days off in a row or go light for a week I do it on the fly and don’t stay married to my program if I need to make adjustments.

In the past I have always responded very quickly to cycles but seem to loose steam mentally and also physically around the 6-8 week mark so hopefully this will allow me to stay fresh mentally and physically and also give my body a semi healthier way of trying to still make progress without destroying my body and health.

Let me know your thoughts and I was debating on doing a very detailed log also. I’m starting around 240lbs right now maybe 10% bodyfat? And coming off a 250mg/week test cruise.
I think doing a log will be great! Looking forward to seeing how things go for you.


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Victory
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04-07-2018, 08:42 AM

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Originally Posted by *Био* View Post
I think doing a log will be great! Looking forward to seeing how things go for you.
I agree. I would like to see you run a log if you can. I have been thinking about trying this myself.
   
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04-08-2018, 06:59 PM

I recall searching the forum about this subject. It may be worth doing as I remember some good threads. Although that was more about high dosed burst cycles. I believe Paul Borresen was one of the first to make them popular.
   
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roadglide83
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04-08-2018, 08:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Победа View Post
I agree. I would like to see you run a log if you can. I have been thinking about trying this myself.
I started a log but decided to go another route this time with my cycle. Might give the short bust cycles another look at after more research.
   
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montego
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04-08-2018, 09:25 PM

A write up I saw on this subject.

Thought I would throw a concept out there from a guy I used to lead with in the chem section at MD back about 6 years ago. He and I differed on a few minor points but all in all we agreed on the concept. I like my super high dose runs a bit longer but I do see the point to shorter runs. He does not discuss doses as he wanted to look at each guys experience level and goals individually which I very much agree with but the doses get pretty freaky for the more experienced guys.

Written by Marcu300

Short burst cycling explained-

One of the best approaches Ive ever used to build muscle tissue is short burst cycling, before i go any further i want to state that short cycling can be implemented to what ever level you are, its not only for the advance Bodybuilder it can be for all stages, its just the amount of gear Mg is adjusted to suit the individual's level. The best part of this thread will be aimed at advanced bodybuilders because of the high dose used with burst cycling but no discussion on dosages will be made on the open board unless it needs to be discussed.

Muscle tissue doesn't grow continuously over long periods of time, weight gain and muscular growth doesn't happen that way. Not in infants, toddlers, teenagers, or even weight trainers. Instead, weight gain seems to come in spurts or surges. It's amazing how you can train hard and eat very well year round yet only seem to make progress in quick little infrequent spurts of growth even with taking all the AAS compounds the body still gets use to whats being taken and builds up tolerance and adapts. If you look back over your cycle history you will notice the growth spurts within the cycles, we don't keep on growing because if we did we would all be 500lbs+. This method can build huge tissue gains in that short growth window if everything is in place.



Pre -Cycle Primming- First you must open the growth window and create a very anabolic environment for muscle tissue to grow, muscle receptors will get very excitable and upgrade to except more glucose which will shift the muscle to fat ratio which in turn will create muscle tissue to build very quickly, when this is coupled with a short burst cycle right after a prime the results can be outstanding, some of you will understand this from rebound cycling after a comp, its very similar except the prime isn't as harsh as the pre-cycle comp diet and the prime is only directed at creating and opening the growth window for the cycle, its a pre-cycle prime.(details of primming is in a separate thread).Hgh protocol should be ran during the prime at low dose and kicked up when cycle starts.



Duration - Short burst cycling usually last for around 30 days, there is no set rule on the length of cycle and normally it can be open ended and stopped when growth slows/stops. You have to listen to the body and adjust, with burst cycling it shouldn't be ran for long periods of time, longer doesn't mean more or better gains.Keep it short and feed the growth window and build the tissue and stop, recover and maintain.

Dosages- The dose for a short burst cycle is alot more than you would normally use in a standard length cycle, because of the prime and the body being in a very anabolic environment it can take on board alot more than usual and over loading androgens will fully push the body to grow, it also takes time for the body to adjust to the high level of hormones in relation to sides so before you are experiencing them your off cycle. Over your cycle history you would of tried the heavy dosages and seen the sides come and where its not worth the risk's to muscle gain, this is why its kept to a short period before the body can adjust with sides the cycle is over and growth is completed. Individual dosages are designed off your cycle history, there is no set dose it all depends on what your cycle history looks like, someone who normally uses 500mg per wk will be completely different to the guy who uses 1500mgs per wk when designing short burst cycles, but both will have the benefit of using high amounts what they normally don't run.

Side effects- If your looking for the best effective way to run hormones without to much negative feedback staying on for long periods of time probably isn't the best option to take. Ive had far better blood work back from high burst cycles than when Ive ran longer cycles at alot less dosage. There is minimal impact on the HPTA and recovery is far easier than trying to bring back natural production from a long cycle, there is some elevated aggression because of the high amount of androgens but overall this can be channeled into your workouts. PCT should be painless and within normal boundaries of how you recover. Blood pressure in some can be a problem but not serious but needs to be checked throughout the period so aids can be used to combat the problem if needed. Water retention is low but can be elevated if this system is ran for long periods, but if there is a problem normal AI can be used to help this issue and OTC herbal diuretics. Tren user's within this system get bad BW results due to the harshness of the compound but boy does it produce gains but you have to be prepared to have a hard recovery and sides, kinda defeats the object but again, down to the individual.

Compounds- Because its a short period of time the normal way would to run short ester's, but you can use long ester's within a short cycle, i know what some of you are thinking but it can be done with great results, because of the androgen overload your simply frontloading long ester's to an amount were it is effective straight from the start, the only problem is you have to drop them out 14 days before the end and swap them with fast ester's so everything is clear for PCT, i know what some are saying sounds pointless but its not, to the BB's who prefer long ester and they respond better to them, remember its designed of your cycle history so if your better with long esters go with them until 14 days from the end and swap to fast ester's, the daily injection and the amount of tissue the body can produce in a short period is amazing, if anyone wants to discuss long ester's with this theory i will but at this moment in time i will stop before i complicate things more. Short ester's and fast acting compounds are used and the exact compounds depends on what your trying to achieve but normally its Test based or what you respond best to, 2 /3 compounds are ran at a time but no need to run loads, keep them limited less is better,Ive even known guys used 1 compound with stunning results. HGH is increased to a high amount when cycle starts just like all the compounds. I did a study once with some BB's and the dosages range alot with all different HGH protocol's which is interesting reading but i can go into that at a later date.



Maintenance - Due to the HPTA being shut down or suppressed for a short period of time its far better to get it to respond when the cycle is over, remember being shut down for weeks on end cause's serious issues about recovery and maintenance, shorter shut downs produces easier recovery no matter how much you have pushed in the body,which in turn results in better maintenance which equals keeping more gains. Once you have shut down your HPTA its down and its the period of shutdown what cause's damage, would you rather shut down your HPTA for 14 weeks or 30 days?? or continually shutting down and recovering isn't the other best approach either, depends on the person's goals and what he wants to achieve with BBing, some of my friends who are at a high level use short burst cycling coupled with bridge's because of what they have to compete with on stage and get ready for photo shoots nearly all the time. Recovering from a standard or long cycle it cost muscle tissue while trying to recovery even with all the peptide's chemicals this day and age we still lose tissue, with this theory losing tissue is limited.



Diet - After the prime as been implemented correctly, the cycle should be started and this day should line up with the first high carb day after the low day carbs within the prime, calories from then on should be increased to over maintenance, different opinions here to how much, again down to knowing your body and how it responds, many who increase too fast will create huge water retention due to the increase of carbs, some don't and over load can be implemented, if your one of these guys who has water retention when carbs are increased after being depleted then over maintenance should be ran for 1 week ish then, overload should be used, if your not and you don't carry the water from the carbs increase calories well over maintenance and go with growth,also depends on how much of a prime as been ran!! feed the dramatic growth what can occur if you have done the procedure correctly.Over eat, over feed, overload on the first day of the cycle straight after the prime from low carb phase.One last thing and i hope many understand this- diet is 24hr dedication while running the theory.

Training - Train to how you grow, best advice here is heavy intense workouts to total failure,HIT style or what ever works for you, you have the answers on how you grow. Intense is the key, stimulation of the whole body to grow, don't waste this time, remember to train how i am recommending is impossible for 10-12 weeks, its to hard and wouldn't last 4 weeks, before a turn around is needed and lay up from the heavy training session, so with this in mind you can mentally focus on this because its only for around 30 days long. Ive used many ways myself but the best for me with this style of cycling was heavy drop sets to failure plus forced, swapped to pre-exhausted drop sets to failure the following next total body workout, then swapped again. Workouts are short but seriously intense but you have the food/chemicals and energy to support this for this short period so don't waste it, Ive seen huge amounts of tissue build from this, myself i created 10lbs of clean tissue in a very short period of time after PCT and maintenance. Everybody's different to how much they build and comes down to if you have primed correctly, designed the perfect stack for you, placed the correct amount of mg's in the blood every day and how well you train to build fresh tissue.

When i was first learnt this method my whole body changed to a serious level,I never went back to the normal way of cycling, it suited me so much and the growth was amazing. Borreson sat me down and explained in detail how this can happen and to this day things have moved forward so much from Paul's day but i always remember him saying "please try it you will be amazed" he was right and it could for you. Look at Dorian what he did straight after a show....he was back in the gym the day after while the other were on vacation, he was using the growth window to create a very anabolic environment for tissue to grow and he used it, thats why in some years he produced some serious muscle tissue gains what has been seen since due to his method and style, many top pro's used this system but its tweaked to suit their individual's needs.

Please note, i am not saying do short burst cycles with little time off and then back on short burst cycle, no i haven't gone into that side of things, all i am doing is explaining the whole theory behind short burst cycling with first hand experience from myself and many bodybuilder's.

marcus
   
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MightyJohn
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04-14-2018, 12:06 AM

We discussed this some time back http://www.anasci.org/vB/anabolic-sc...le-theory.html
   
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04-17-2018, 03:14 PM

I done this years back and liked it. It's good to make such fast changes. Some argue high doses for any length of time are too toxic whilst others think you can get away with things if you keep the cycle short. The problem I found is you constantly miss that feeling so your off periods get less and less. If you stick to a plan and get regular blood work and don't use orals every blast I can see it being very effective.
   
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