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BCAA's toss them in the trash
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Concreteguy
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BCAA's toss them in the trash - 06-06-2018, 06:23 PM

I belong to Jordon Peters paid monthly forum. He has posted a video were he clearly states based on new science BCAA's offer ZERO to the anabolic state of a human body. He literally said to just take your loss and throw the jug in the trash can. He went on to say that EAA's are a different animal that should be consumed during and post training."With some positive effects". He then went on to add that PeptoPro was the Mac'daddy and should always be used during and post.


That whole thing was quit an eye opener for me. I have heard previously that EAA's were better than BCAA"s but I'm just so conditioned over the years with the BCAA's always being on the shelf at every Protein shop it's hard to imagine tossing it in the trash...Ö.
   
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Durro
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06-06-2018, 09:20 PM

You donít have to throw it. I also believe Essentials are better. I canít remember where I seen or read on it some years back.
   
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lilgumby
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06-07-2018, 01:31 PM

John Meadows did a video on the same Theory between bcaa and eaa. I follow John and a member His paid form also. I think he's one of the smartest guys in the industry. So I ended up switching to EAA a while back
   
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FastBunny
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06-07-2018, 03:12 PM

Thank you for sharing this knowledge that you pay for and are nice enough to share! Thank you!
   
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Concreteguy
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06-07-2018, 05:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgumby View Post
John Meadows did a video on the same Theory between bcaa and eaa. I follow John and remember His paid form also. I think he's one of the smartest guys in the industry. So I ended up switching to EAA a while back
   
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MyNameIsJeff
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06-07-2018, 07:32 PM

BCAAS are less effective in isolation than EAAs. But to suggest that they are completely useless and should be thrown in the trash is nonsense.

Quote:
"The present study demonstrated that ingesting of all three BCAAs alone, without concurrent ingestion of other essential amino acids, protein, or macronutrients, stimulated a 22% greater response of muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis following resistance exercise compared with a placebo," the researchers wrote. "The magnitude of this increased response of muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis was approximately 50% less than the previously reported muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis response to a dose of whey protein containing similar amounts of BCAAs."

"Taken together, these results demonstrate that BCAAs exhibit the capacity to stimulate muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis, however a full complement of essential amino acids could be necessary to stimulate a maximal response of muscle myofibrillar protein synthesis following resistance exercise."
http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaas-post-w...need-help.html

So there is in fact a positive effect of BCAAs on muscle protein synthesis, especially if you consume other protein sources close in time. For example, most bodybuilders have a post-workout meal which will provide the EAAs as 'fuel' for the increases protein synthesis previously induced by something like intra-workout BCAAS.

Furthermore, BCAAs have a place in limiting muscle breakdown during (especially fasted) exercise.

Quote:
Physical exertion causes muscle to convert amino acids into energy. To do this the muscle cells use BCAAs, branched-chain amino acids, where possible. For the enzymes involved in energy provision, the branched side chain is like a handle: it gives them a better grip.

Because of this, taking BCAAs before and during a training session reduces muscle breakdown. The muscle cells convert the additional BCAAs into energy, thus saving the BCAAs in the muscle proteins. Another ergogenic effect of BCAA supplementation is that it reduces fatigue. The mechanism here is a little more complicated.

When muscles are active they absorb BCAAs from the blood. They don't absorb the amino acid L-tryptophan, so tryptophan molecules remain in the blood. The brain also absorbs amino acids from the blood, but the amount of amino acids that reach the brain is limited. If physical exertion reduces the amount of BCAAs in the blood, then the amount of tryptophan molecules that reach the brain increases. Enzymes convert tryptophan there into the neurotransmitter serotonin. A peak in brain serotonin levels during training causes drowsiness and fatigue.

So the remedy for tiredness is obvious: make sure there are more BCAAs in the blood.
http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasmaketra...esstiring.html

Consequently, you would expect reduced soreness and better recovery from intra-workout BCAAs, exactly what John Meadows mentions in the video above.

Quote:
Results
A significant time effect was seen for all variables. There were significant group effects showing a reduction in CK efflux and muscle soreness in the BCAA group compared to the placebo (P<0.05). Furthermore, the recovery of MVC was greater in the BCAA group (P<0.05). The VJ, TC and CC were not different between groups.

Conclusion
The present study has shown that BCAA administered before and following damaging resistance exercise reduces indices of muscle damage and accelerates recovery in resistance-trained males. It seems likely that BCAA provided greater bioavailablity of substrate to improve protein synthesis and thereby the extent of secondary muscle damage associated with strenuous resistance exercise.
https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...1550-2783-9-20

Upshot: there is a (limited) anabolic effect of BCAAs in real-world training scenarios, in addition to a significant anti-catabolic effect. Yes, as the new studies show, EAAs are superior in terms of a sustained anabolic effect. But that does not mean that BCAAs are useless. I'm surprised that Meadows is not aware of the anti-catabolic effect of BCAAs, leading him to think that the BCAAs in his intra-workout drink were not responsible for perceived reductions in muscle soreness and recovery time. Same thing for Peters. They only read a couple of studies, come to wrong conclusions and based on that make extreme recommendations like to throw away BCAAs
   
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Elvia1023
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06-08-2018, 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsJeff View Post
BCAAS are less effective in isolation than EAAs. But to suggest that they are completely useless and should be thrown in the trash is nonsense.


http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaas-post-w...need-help.html

So there is in fact a positive effect of BCAAs on muscle protein synthesis, especially if you consume other protein sources close in time. For example, most bodybuilders have a post-workout meal which will provide the EAAs as 'fuel' for the increases protein synthesis previously induced by something like intra-workout BCAAS.

Furthermore, BCAAs have a place in limiting muscle breakdown during (especially fasted) exercise.


http://www.ergo-log.com/bcaasmaketra...esstiring.html

Consequently, you would expect reduced soreness and better recovery from intra-workout BCAAs, exactly what John Meadows mentions in the video above.


https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/arti...1550-2783-9-20

Upshot: there is a (limited) anabolic effect of BCAAs in real-world training scenarios, in addition to a significant anti-catabolic effect. Yes, as the new studies show, EAAs are superior in terms of a sustained anabolic effect. But that does not mean that BCAAs are useless. I'm surprised that Meadows is not aware of the anti-catabolic effect of BCAAs, leading him to think that the BCAAs in his intra-workout drink were not responsible for perceived reductions in muscle soreness and recovery time. Same thing for Peters. They only read a couple of studies, come to wrong conclusions and based on that make extreme recommendations like to throw away BCAAs


I am always impressed with you knowledge. You research everything in depth and I like that.


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Elvia1023
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06-08-2018, 10:18 PM

I have posted about this a few times on promuscle in the past. EAA's are superior to BCAA's by a long way. I have been using them for years. Milos Sarcev has been saying this for years. I like Olimp EAA's and use them a lot.

However if you are consuming regular meals throughout the day that contain a full spectrum of aminos adding BCAA's to that meal or in between those meals will still be beneficial. I disagree they should be thrown in the trash. I never even noticed this thread and just posted 5%'s aminos taste great so I sometimes add them to peptopro to improve the taste. 5% aminos are just BCAA's so that goes well with this post. I also don't try to overcomplicate things as the main reason I use them is literally the taste


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squatster
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06-09-2018, 08:33 AM

https://core4nutrition.com/blog/bcaa...ne-better-take
There is so much info on both on the Ethernet
   
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AGGRO
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06-09-2018, 06:38 PM

EAA's are better but I would not throw away BCAA's. They still can have a purpose. I use BCAA's during training sometimes and have noticed better recovery.
   
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armada
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06-09-2018, 09:33 PM

I think if your workouts are short enough and you eat shortly before and shortly after the gym, intraworkouts are not that important.

That being said, if I will be at the gym for a while and my pre-workout meal is far enough away from the workout, I'll simply use a scoop of protein powder. Sure your body has to work harder to break down protein vs. free form amino acids, but it's also more cost effective and does the trick for me.
   
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Viking
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06-09-2018, 11:13 PM

I have been using BSN's Amino x and it has helped but nothing that stands out. Well one thing that stands out is it is cola flavor and the taste is amazing. It tastes like cola and I am getting some aminos so thats good enough for me.
   
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steelsouth
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06-13-2018, 05:03 PM

I honestly don't get as sore when I use EAA's combined with HBCD pre and intra...mostly pre. I trained chest pretty hard on Monday and dont have much ***s at all.

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Marshall
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06-13-2018, 06:31 PM

I think the "throw them in the trash" was just for dramatic effect. Not an actual directive
   
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GreenEarth
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06-13-2018, 08:31 PM

Only a monster would suggest I throw these delicious green-apple-flavored BCAAs in the trash

But I think the literature is relatively firm at this point...for the benefits of muscular growth, EAAs win by a long shot.
   
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Elvia1023
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06-13-2018, 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEarth View Post
Only a monster would suggest I throw these delicious green-apple-flavored BCAAs in the trash

But I think the literature is relatively firm at this point...for the benefits of muscular growth, EAAs win by a long shot.
100%

But as mentioned above what if you add those bcaa's to a meal that contains all essential aminos acids. Or even between meals that contain all essential amino acids. That's why I also agree with your reluctance to throw them in the trash.

As you stated EAA's win by a long shot and if guys want to use aminos they should buy them if possible. I buy EAA's all the time but have some BCAA's mainly because they are much more popular so you get some amazing flavours which you don't get for EAA's. Plus it's not like it's going to make that much difference in the grand scheme.

Now a good example of the above is I just had delicious fizzy green apples BCAA's in a tub of greek yoghurt. So that meal contains all the essential aminos acids plus a high dose of bcaa's.


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b-boy
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06-14-2018, 06:49 AM

leave it to meatheads to overthing fucking everything.. If you are consuming quality protein sources every few hours what the fuck are you worried about? BCAAs are just fine to use intra workout. FUCK ME!!!
   
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RamboStallone
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06-14-2018, 07:25 AM

The more complete the protein is, the better it works, period. Protein foods including whey are much more beneficial then aminos. BCAAs is only 3 aminos, yea pretty much useless. The marketing BS labeled these 3 aminos as being most important, well Yea if the other aminos are present. I would say if you take your BCAAs with a complete protein (whey) then they will be effective. So I always had a protein shake with whey and/or egg whites preworkout and sipped on the BCAAs intra. EAAs are more effective but complete proteins are still best.
   
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RamboStallone
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06-14-2018, 07:27 AM

Forgot to mention but personally, I see carbs being more beneficial intra for recovery. Of course if you're having enough protein during the day, the carbs have the aminos to shuttle to the muscle.
   
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hemipower
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06-14-2018, 08:09 AM

Agree with the consensus here... whole proteins pre and post...

intra I currently do bcaas/cyclic dextrin only because I got a CASE or so of a quality BCAA from a store closing shop...have a few tubs left then will be seeking a carb/EAA/bcaa blend for intra or make my own. SO many of them have tiny doses of supps and mark the product way up for ineffective ingredients included for label claims.

Simple...carb, EAA and BCAA would not be super costly but would be best bang for the buck results wise.
   
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