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looking for advice.. older guy
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ajt
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looking for advice.. older guy - 06-21-2018, 04:44 PM

Im 47, I have been lifting 30 years. Aside from 6 wks of a low dose Winstrol Cycle 25 years ago I am a natural lifter, no TRT, no SARMS, really very little supplements at all.

Im 5'6, 205. Pretty lean about 12% body fat, but I would like to get much leaner without losing the muscle I have worked hard to build.
I train heavy three times weekly, my diet is pretty good, but I have never had the ripped look, even when I was younger.Each time I change things around to get leaner I immediately feel weak and abandon the changes.

My Test levels were measure at 519 pg/nl, my estrogen was 43pm/ml, which was high. My free T was 9.34ng/dl.

Curious what would accomplish my goals:

1. maintain muscle mass, I don't really need to get bigger
2. aid in getting much leaner
3. increase vascularity

I was thinking of going straight testosterone, at or around TRT levels since that seems to really help guys my age get leaner but I am not certain this is the best use of TRT.
   
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BigBob
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06-21-2018, 04:55 PM

Welcome to Anasci.
You should go over to the introduction section and introduce yourself. But in the meantime.
From what you describe A trt dose would be the best bet.
One of my problems is what you described. As soon as I start getting lean I feel weaker lose strength.
A trt dose would help maintain muscle mass and keep your energy and strength up.
And it's the safest bet also.


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SOUR DIESEL
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06-21-2018, 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajt View Post
Im 47, I have been lifting 30 years. Aside from 6 wks of a low dose Winstrol Cycle 25 years ago I am a natural lifter, no TRT, no SARMS, really very little supplements at all.

Im 5'6, 205. Pretty lean about 12% body fat, but I would like to get much leaner without losing the muscle I have worked hard to build.
I train heavy three times weekly, my diet is pretty good, but I have never had the ripped look, even when I was younger.Each time I change things around to get leaner I immediately feel weak and abandon the changes.

My Test levels were measure at 519 pg/nl, my estrogen was 43pm/ml, which was high. My free T was 9.34ng/dl.

Curious what would accomplish my goals:

1. maintain muscle mass, I don't really need to get bigger
2. aid in getting much leaner
3. increase vascularity

I was thinking of going straight testosterone, at or around TRT levels since that seems to really help guys my age get leaner but I am not certain this is the best use of TRT.
that's the thing about natty ..there's only so far you can go (..more accurately there only so far you can go & stay lean)

there's soooo much to this, so without getting into a sermon i'll offer a simple solution

..take an anti-E ..preferably in your case AROMA b'cuz it's "suicide inhibitor" & it will prevent ESTROGEN rebound

..this will not only raise your TESTOSTERONE levels ..it would also fix your elevated ESTROGEN ..and it would most assuredly help you get lean


5'6" & 209 @12% BF ..is quite a feat, so i'm guessing that you are already well versed with diet & training

good luck brother ..& if you want the sermon, let me know lol


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ajt
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06-21-2018, 05:33 PM

Thanks, yes.

I forgot to mention I did try a small dose of liquid dex, .25mg or so, which had an immediate effect of increasing morning wood etc.. but my joints started to hurt especially my thumbs. i tried smaller doses as well, each time I would get the joint pain.

without constant testing it was hard to tell if my estrogen levels were too low. I think my aromatase levels tend to be naturally high and may very well be part of the reason I have never gotten more lean.

since my test is not very high, I figured a very small dose would be enough to reduce my estrogen level. obviously if I went on TRT or something else I would use more.
   
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ajt
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06-21-2018, 05:35 PM

Thanks man, I will go introduce myself.
   
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GreenEarth
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06-21-2018, 10:12 PM

I think a TRT dose would do wonders for you, and is a responsible introduction to the AAS world (with the exception of the winstrol cycle).

Getting test to around 900-1100ng/dl is great...one of my last cutting cycles I kept my test at that level and managed to get quite lean with diet, some HIIT cardio after training, and the same lifting I had been doing while bulking. As a matter of fact, for the first 8 weeks of the cut my strength continued to climb. After 8 weeks, I had to settle with maintaining my weights at where I had gotten them to, but that was the point where I was getting very lean, so the visual changes more than made up for the lack of strength progress.

In all fairness, I'm a relatively small guy, not anything compared to some of the beasts we have on this site, but with never having used exogenous test before, I can't imagine your body not reacting incredibly well to the increase.
   
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ajt
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06-21-2018, 10:53 PM

what kind of dosage are we talking about 200mg per week?
   
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BigBob
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06-22-2018, 06:20 AM

TRT dsages are usually about 100mg a week.

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armada
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06-22-2018, 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajt View Post
Im 47, I have been lifting 30 years. Aside from 6 wks of a low dose Winstrol Cycle 25 years ago I am a natural lifter, no TRT, no SARMS, really very little supplements at all.

Im 5'6, 205. Pretty lean about 12% body fat, but I would like to get much leaner without losing the muscle I have worked hard to build.
I train heavy three times weekly, my diet is pretty good, but I have never had the ripped look, even when I was younger.Each time I change things around to get leaner I immediately feel weak and abandon the changes.

My Test levels were measure at 519 pg/nl, my estrogen was 43pm/ml, which was high. My free T was 9.34ng/dl.

Curious what would accomplish my goals:

1. maintain muscle mass, I don't really need to get bigger
2. aid in getting much leaner
3. increase vascularity

I was thinking of going straight testosterone, at or around TRT levels since that seems to really help guys my age get leaner but I am not certain this is the best use of TRT.
I would consider going with TRT. Based on your E2 levels, you will probably need a small dose of an AI alongside the TRT.

Run TRT for a few months and see how you feel. You can always experiment from there.
   
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GreenEarth
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06-22-2018, 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBob View Post
TRT dsages are usually about 100mg a week.

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Very true, although the amount of guys I've seen quoting their TRT at 200mg/wk seems very high these days. Are these guys legitimately having that prescribed through bloods or are they supplementing a bit of their own testosterone source to get to that 200mg mark? Legitimately curious.

I suppose it all depends on the kindness of your doctor...lol
   
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woody
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06-22-2018, 11:13 PM

how many days a week do you train? and in your opinion, with what intensity and how much time? i can change my body within 2 weeks due to those factors(muscle memory of course).

Last edited by woody; 06-22-2018 at 11:16 PM.
   
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ajt
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06-23-2018, 12:53 AM

I train 3x weekly. I would say I am in the advanced in most areas.

Intensity is moderately high, about 1 hour per session, minimal cardio.
   
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Concreteguy
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06-23-2018, 09:43 AM

I would go with a low fat keto diet. In 1 months time you will reach your goal and lose zero muscle as a result of taking in high protein. The peptide section has a large volume of keto based information to draw on. and Welcome to Anasci friend!


One more thing, at your age it would benefit you greatly to bump your test levels a little. It would help tremendously with nutrient partitioning.

Last edited by Concreteguy; 06-23-2018 at 09:46 AM.
   
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Duluxx
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06-23-2018, 11:56 AM

I call bullshit on op. 5’6” 205 12% GTFOH “with an Italian accent”. My boy is 5’6” 170 and he looks like a monster. He’s probably around 15 to 20. He’s super vascular at the body fat. Pics op?
   
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ajt
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06-23-2018, 05:31 PM

Maybe I am a tad higher than 12%, I can see my abs, veins in arms chest and quads, even some striations in my quads, but not the look I am going for.

At 20% you cant be vascular, especially super vascular, your friend is probably sub 10% body fat. The leanest I have ever gotten was 9.4% after I stopped wrestling, and I was vascular and lean, but I couldn't maintain it and it got harder with age, and being more sedentary.

I want the much leaner look. I am actually down from 215, I was considerably smoother but really strong. I am addicted to the strength, and I don't want to give it all away, which is why I am here doing my research.

As far as my size, Im sorry to disappoint you but I am what I said I am, I see no reason to come on here and bullshit anyone, whats the point? It makes it harder for people to give accurate advice if I am lying.

I am an advanced lifter with 30 years of training. I'm a large frame person, even though I am short I am very broad and very thick.

Your friend is probably a much smaller guy than me. My 20 year old son is about 5'7 165, much smaller frame and he is lean and vascular. I think he is around 10%. I am broader and thicker than him.
   
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ajt
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06-23-2018, 05:38 PM

Low fat keto dieting, by this you mean a high protein, low carb and low fat?

I am really debatiing on using a TRT level dose for a few months to see where I can go with it.

I am also thinking of just blasting 500 mg a week for a while then dropping down to TRT levels since I have never done anything I might get some really do results and then maintain with TRT.

But... I might just do nothing.. which is what I usually do. I get ready to do it, and then change my mind because I dont want to be on something all the time.
   
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Duluxx
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06-23-2018, 07:24 PM

Pics or it didn’t happen....
   
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Duluxx
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06-23-2018, 07:33 PM

Keto is high fats moderate protein low to no carbs. Atkins is high protein.
   
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Duluxx
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06-23-2018, 07:52 PM

And I’ll add, fats are crucial for “natural” testosterone production. You take fats away, you better be on trt.
   
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GreenEarth
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06-24-2018, 02:13 AM

Quote:
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Keto is high fats moderate protein low to no carbs. Atkins is high protein.
Yes, but concreteguy recommended in his post that he do a "low fat keto diet." I'm unfamiliar with it, perhaps CG could elaborate? I assumed that it would just essentially be a high daily intake of protein with the other macros just being as low as possible. Maybe with a weekly refeed day?
   
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