Wondering if y'all have any experience with this. Doctor said I had pneumonia, but it didn't go away with meds. Doing some research and a couple guys have had these symptoms from AAS before. Now, I've used tons of AAS, and never had this problem. But I am using Test Cyp for the first time (used lots of Enan and Prop before), and was thinking maybe that could be the variable. But I dunno.
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Steroid flu? Congestion, hypoxic, shortness breath, pneumonia
- Thread starter Biggerp73
- Start date
Sounds like lipoid pneumonia. Specifically, exogenous lipoid pneumonia due to injection of oily substances. You should cease all injections for now. Your doctor should refer you to a lung specialist ASAP, who should do an x-ray and perform bronchoalveolar lavage to confirm the diagnosis.
nac will help with pneumonia and other lung issues, better even then antibiotics.
also taking some rest so that you can recover is important.
i feel most often things like this are symptoms of over training and over drugging to try to compensate for over training.
that said sometimes jumping on high dose of a new compound can do weird things, often they will go away if you ride it out.
also taking some rest so that you can recover is important.
i feel most often things like this are symptoms of over training and over drugging to try to compensate for over training.
that said sometimes jumping on high dose of a new compound can do weird things, often they will go away if you ride it out.
Why would it happen now when it hasn't happened in the past? If tests show a bacterial or viral infection would that indicate it's not from injection of oily substances? Could smaller amounts (1/4cc) injected subq prevent this issue?
Chronic lipoid pneumonia can build up over weeks and months. The fact that it occurs now and not in the past could be due to higher overall injection volume, different carrier oils used, or adaptations in the lymphatic vasculature in response to chronic site injections. The lymphatic system (through which oil microemboli enter the lung vasculature) is present in all tissues, so I can't say whether injections into fat tissue would be better.
Not sure how your doctor would test for the presence of a viral or bacterial infection unless he runs some rather elaborate blood work. And even then, a positive finding does not rule out the presence of lipoid pneumoia, only the two tests I mention above are useful for that purpose.
I can't guarantee that I'm correct, of course. But based on your medical history, I find the diagnosis highly likely. Take this seriously or else you may end up like Dallas.
Thanks Jeff. I know they already took several blood samples, urine test, even tried to test some mucus (though I couldn't really cough much up). I'm going to ask if they found a specific bacteria or virus infection. I will also bring up your speculative diagnosis (I'll tell them a friend who is a doctor sent me an email haha) and see if they will do the bronchoalveolar lavage. They did do at least one X Ray already, but although they knew I had been using testosterone injections, I'm not sure they would even be aware of the possibility that it would cause something like this. In my Google searches the couple journal articles I found indicated that the doctors were previously unaware and suprised by the fact the causal factor was AAS. So maybe they didn't even check the X Ray initially for that. We will see.
As a side note, I had been using Tren Enan and Test Cyp, and i dropped the Tren Enan about a week ago because I thought maybe this was a case of slow and gradual "tren cough", and was hoping switching to just Test Cyp would alleviate the problem. And though I thought it did start to help, i am out of antibiotics and don't want to risk anything so i stopped the Test Cyp yesterday too.
As a side note, I had been using Tren Enan and Test Cyp, and i dropped the Tren Enan about a week ago because I thought maybe this was a case of slow and gradual "tren cough", and was hoping switching to just Test Cyp would alleviate the problem. And though I thought it did start to help, i am out of antibiotics and don't want to risk anything so i stopped the Test Cyp yesterday too.
Ok, spoke with the doctor, told her about what you said, and she looked into it, and said she is confident that is not what is happening, says i would be much more sick if that was the case, and says the hospital would have checked my x-ray for that anyways. I'm not 100% confident in her assessment though, since she said the mucus they tested came back negative for any bacterial infection. In the end, she says she thinks i have a flu, and prescribed tamiflu, but also gave me a referral to the pulmonary so they can do the exam you suggested. I am hoping to get that done asap. Perhaps in the future i will just brew my AAS in water based solutions rather than oil.
Which leads me to my next question. I imagine any AAS can simply be dissolved into bacteriostatic water and filtered through a 22 micron filter and be ready to go, correct?
I'd be happy to be wrong and for the anti-viral meds to work. How long have you had symptoms for? Did you and do you still have fever? Runny nose and headaches? Is there currently a flu wave in your town and are many friends or colleagues sick? All that stuff will of course determine how likely viral pneumonia is.
I do, however, think that her reason to dismiss lipoid pneumonia is not valid. She might be thinking of acute lipoid pneumonia (i.e. when you inject oil intravascularly, leading to a very strong adverse reaction in a very short time). But there's also the chronic variety where lipids enter the lungs not via the circulatory, but rather the lymphatic system, slowly accumulating over time in the lungs until people become symptomatic.
Good on your doc to also refer you for the BAL though, better safe than sorry. Be sure to ask the pulmonologist that he use 'Oil Red O' stain on the BAL sample to look for intracytoplasmic staining of macrophages (which indicates the presence of lipids where they don't belong). A positive finding would be pretty definitive evidence for lipoid pneumonia.
Regarding water-based steroids: Not an expert, but the solubility of AAS in water is much lower than in oils. So you can only make lower concentrations hold, and probably need a lot of solvents (not sure on that tho). Plus the issues with infections being more likely with water-based steroids. Let's wait and see for the test results, maybe you won;t have to worry about that at all.
I slowly got more heavier breathing over the course of a few weeks, up untill 14 days ago when I deceloped cellulitis. I went to the doctor for that, ans they sent me home and told me to see a specialist the next day. That night the hard breathing got worse, as i felt I choked on something, and then could not breathe. Went to the ER and they gave me IV antiobiotics, ran tons of tests, etc. Treated me for cellulitis and pneumonia. The cellulitis went away, and seemingly the breathing issue did to, but it got worse again. Flu in the area? Not to my knowledge. Don't have a fever, either. Though did get sweaty, that is pretty normal for me. But feeling very congested and winded. Runny nose? Yeah, a little bit, but the kind that you can't really blow into a Kleenex, but can only let slowly drip from your super enflamed and congested nasal passage haha. Headache? Yes this morning. Girlfriend isn't sick, but she got the flu shot.
To be clear I'm not sure the relation of the cellulitis and the pneumonia. They occured at the same time, though. Very painful, very swollen infection, nowhere near an injection site. Still have no idea what caused it.
Brewing only water based gear would be a bad idea and you would have a greater chance of getting an infection.
How is your heart? Do you have high BP or any issues?
How is your heart? Do you have high BP or any issues?
squatster
AnaSCI VIP
- Mar 27, 2014
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Sorry to hair of your health brotha- I am having a shit load of issues right now- can't go up a flight of stairs - feel like I can't breath- got prolapsed fucking rectum also- low oxygen- high pulse- went from 207 to 191 in a week and a half a couple weeks back with out changing any thing - and I am going some were else while driving- falling to sleep? Was driving north bound in far right lane and found my self in far south bound left lane - my doc had no clue- blood test came out good except cholesterol at over 300- he is thinking sleep apnea- no apointments till June - think I would rather have my problems them yours.
I wonder if it has any thing to do with the supplies - raws or oils?
Sorry for jumping on your thred man
Heart seems to be fine according to all the doctors tests
Had trouble breathing this morning, had sex with the GF anyways, it got pretty intense, and by the time I finished, I could barely breathe, ending up coughing up some blood. Not sure what that means.
One thing I didn't mention, was about the time breathing started to become more difficult, I switched from pinning delts to quads. I know some say not to pin qiads because there's so many veins and nerves, and sometimes when I inject blood does come out afterwards. I'm wondering if this is lipoid pneumonia, whether using the quads daily played a role.
Had trouble breathing this morning, had sex with the GF anyways, it got pretty intense, and by the time I finished, I could barely breathe, ending up coughing up some blood. Not sure what that means.
One thing I didn't mention, was about the time breathing started to become more difficult, I switched from pinning delts to quads. I know some say not to pin qiads because there's so many veins and nerves, and sometimes when I inject blood does come out afterwards. I'm wondering if this is lipoid pneumonia, whether using the quads daily played a role.
I can definitely relate to a lot of that, including falling asleep in the middle of the day, almost nodding off while driving.
Yeah I had been using homebrew gear with MCT, filtered through a .22 micron filter. Stuff is high quality so I don't think that is the reason.