First Cycle

[DecaDude]

Well, got over the prick yourself phobia, and started my first Cycle last friday... 50Mg (EOD) of Stanozolol (Winny) and 400Mg of Deca. The second injection of Winny was real painfull. Sat around like Will from Will & Grace, after a night out with 'the boys'

Anyhoo, with the help from this board I realized it was not an abcess so it's almost gone now.

I did manage to get a good nosebleed this am, but probably due to a cold I've been sporting for two days.

Deca/Winny ok for stack? Anything else I should know...?

I'm doing a 6 day a week split for the next few weeks. No super hero shit, just isolation and concentration.

 

[Nitrateman]

How long you running this cycle? Where's the test? You're splitting the deca into 2 injections ew of 200mg? Deca's gonna shut you down, bro.

Nitrateman

 

[MR .T]

Nitrateman is right deca will shut you down. I think you should have done more reaserch but whats done is done. The vets will want to see some stats age, weight, height, bf%, experience. Did you get it from a reliable scource? I think you might need to add some test.

 

[Strongman]

Just an fyi........and this is common across boards.....You don't ALWAYS need test with Deca....this is a common misconception...It won't necessarily give you deca-dick.

It's all in dosing and taking proper precautions....Taking Novaldex while using Deca as a stand alone or supplimenting with natural test boosters will aid in reducing shutdown.

Following this protocol there is rarely any problem at all.

I know guys that have run deca only cycles at around 600mg per week while taking natural test boosters and they had beautiful results with little to no shutdown.

Of course there are always exceptions to everything and one persons body isn't necessarily a reflection of the whole but again if precautions are taken many of the sides of a deca only cycle can be reduced.

 

[AKAPITBULL]

I remeber my first cycle it was the best one too bad I didn,t really have a clue! :twisted:

 

[sTaTic]

you dont always need test in your cycles but proviron wouldnt be a bad idea to add to your cycle.

 

[DecaDude]

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll keep the stats short because I'm an oldtimer too. 39. But I have a good bodybuilding base.

I'm taking 300Mg, 4 days apart. 50Mg Stanozolol EOD. Tribulus extract for Test.

I'd rather not go the Test. road on my first cycle. I'm going for about 8 weeks, especially since Winny isn't too good on me for more than 6wks.

Being 39, I've got some concerns. I don't have High BP which is good. I do have experience, though, and I've researched this as much as I could care to. At one point you gotta "show me the $" and do something.

I'm already pretty bulky, 5'9" 236lbs, 20% (I think) but I can press 3 x plates (45's) and have been alternating routines between power lifting and bodybuilding for some time.

My source can get me a variety but no test. right now. I'm working on Clomid. pct.

From your experience, boss, what can I expect in the first, second, and let's say third week?

 

[wolfyEVH]

sorry bro, but they are in fact "shutdown".....they may have not felt shutdown, but they were. People have the misconception that test is just for "dick" problems, but its not the case.....

1 shot of deca is enough to plummit your test levels to zero (wanna see evidence?)......i dont see how taking nolva w/ the deca would do anything as the deca would over power it.....it will prevent the estrogen aromatized from the deca from attaching to receptors, but thats about it. you can't take test boosters while on a deca cycle because you body wont produce any regardless. Thats why you include testosterone. so you're getting the test that you need. yeah many guys have ran deca only cycles, but its not a good thing to do. test is far superior than deca in the first place.

Just an fyi........and this is common across boards.....You don't ALWAYS need test with Deca....this is a common misconception...It won't necessarily give you deca-dick.

It's all in dosing and taking proper precautions....Taking Novaldex while using Deca as a stand alone or supplimenting with natural test boosters will aid in reducing shutdown.

Following this protocol there is rarely any problem at all.

I know guys that have run deca only cycles at around 600mg per week while taking natural test boosters and they had beautiful results with little to no shutdown.

Of course there are always exceptions to everything and one persons body isn't necessarily a reflection of the whole but again if precautions are taken many of the sides of a deca only cycle can be reduced.

 

[wolfyEVH]

someone your age would greatly benefit from using test.....don't know why you're trying to avoid it. (although I think your BF is too high to cycling anything in the first place)

your source can't get test?? i find that hard to believe. If you look hard enough, you know you can in fact find good sources

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll keep the stats short because I'm an oldtimer too. 39. But I have a good bodybuilding base.

I'm taking 300Mg, 4 days apart. 50Mg Stanozolol EOD. Tribulus extract for Test.

I'd rather not go the Test. road on my first cycle. I'm going for about 8 weeks, especially since Winny isn't too good on me for more than 6wks.

Being 39, I've got some concerns. I don't have High BP which is good. I do have experience, though, and I've researched this as much as I could care to. At one point you gotta "show me the $" and do something.

I'm already pretty bulky, 5'9" 236lbs, 20% (I think) but I can press 3 x plates (45's) and have been alternating routines between power lifting and bodybuilding for some time.

My source can get me a variety but no test. right now. I'm working on Clomid. pct.

From your experience, boss, what can I expect in the first, second, and let's say third week?

 

[Andrew]

I just finished my cycle and I'm at 19% bodyfat, which feels gross. I think if you are starting a cycle at 20% it will definitely be even higher at the finish. It might be a good idea for you to lower the bodyfat prior to a cycle. I'm currently dieting and hope to get down to 15% bodyfat before my next cycle starts. If I can't lose the fat fast enough I may just wait a little extra long before my next cycle to make sure I start at 15% bodyfat (or below would be even better).

 

[Strongman]

sorry bro, but they are in fact "shutdown".....they may have not felt shutdown, but they were. People have the misconception that test is just for "dick" problems, but its not the case.....

1 shot of deca is enough to plummit your test levels to zero (wanna see evidence?)......i dont see how taking nolva w/ the deca would do anything as the deca would over power it.....it will prevent the estrogen aromatized from the deca from attaching to receptors, but thats about it. you can't take test boosters while on a deca cycle because you body wont produce any regardless. Thats why you include testosterone. so you're getting the test that you need. yeah many guys have ran deca only cycles, but its not a good thing to do. test is far superior than deca in the first place.

WolfeyEVH is that real world evidence or paper evidence....>See what you are saying is 1 shot of deca is enough to plummit test levels to zero....Have you ever seen someone who has taken natural test boosters all throughout a cycle while taking deca get bloodwork done....Well I have and by no means were their test levels zero.

Yes deca alone MAY cause shutdown, but my point is that if deca is taking with proper precautions shutdown may be avoided....This is where people get misinformed...They hear over and over deca only will cause shutdown/deca dick but they do not understand how taking precautions during a cycle can reduce negative side effects......This is true with any type of gear....It's all in dosing, precautions, and PCT.

I would like to see an accurate test of a subject who got shutdown while taking a natural test booster or Novaldex during cycle....That may be a bit hard to find...

You see...People sometimes put down cycles saying they will not work or will cause such and such....but that is why precautions/preventions need to be addressed....Some cycles aren't as bad as they seem if they are addressed in a safe manner.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think if you see where I'm coming from we may be saying the same thing in a different way!!!

Peace,
SM

 

[wolfyEVH]

WolfeyEVH is that real world evidence or paper evidence....>See what you are saying is 1 shot of deca is enough to plummit test levels to zero....Have you ever seen someone who has taken natural test boosters all throughout a cycle while taking deca get bloodwork done....Well I have and by no means were their test levels zero.

Yes deca alone MAY cause shutdown, but my point is that if deca is taking with proper precautions shutdown may be avoided....This is where people get misinformed...They hear over and over deca only will cause shutdown/deca dick but they do not understand how taking precautions during a cycle can reduce negative side effects......This is true with any type of gear....It's all in dosing, precautions, and PCT.

I would like to see an accurate test of a subject who got shutdown while taking a natural test booster or Novaldex during cycle....That may be a bit hard to find...

You see...People sometimes put down cycles saying they will not work or will cause such and such....but that is why precautions/preventions need to be addressed....Some cycles aren't as bad as they seem if they are addressed in a safe manner.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think if you see where I'm coming from we may be saying the same thing in a different way!!!

Peace,
SM

show me scientific evidence proving this. there is no "may" cause shutdown with deca only. its a nor-test, a heavy progestin which affects the HPTA drastically. It inhibits the release of gonadotropins from the hypophysis, but to a much stronger degree than most steroids.

I just want to see your evidence that taking something like nolvadex or some test booster will prevent deca from "shutting you down". Give me the physiological evidence.

 

[DecaDude]

I am taking stanozolol too, not just deca. I appreciate all the help, forums like these are great for the different angles and viewpoints they provide. Let's not get into a flame.

I agree 20% is on the high end. I am going to focus my diet on protein from whole sources with lots of cardio.

I can lose weight rapidly (and gain it too)...

an elevated anarobic state will give me added benefit in cutting when combined with Winny. I'm not looking to bulk up tremendously. I'm not a small guy wannabe big guy.

But I do appreciate where you're comming from with regards to the BMI. If I make it to 40, and on the right side of the daisies, I'll let you know how my cycle went. But I started it, I'm gonna finish it....

So let's hear a big, WOOOOOOOO go FRANK.....WOOOOOOOOO, cmon I'm waiting.?

 

[DecaDude]

:welcome: supposedly winny can can counteract some of the progesterone that is made by deca. :welcome:

This is the kind of stuff I see on other boards... hence the decision.

Can anyone advise what to expect in week two? I did notice my bench and tri-presses went way up..

 

[stealthmeister]

:welcome: supposedly winny can can counteract some of the progesterone that is made by deca. :welcome:

This is the kind of stuff I see on other boards... hence the decision.

Can anyone advise what to expect in week two? I did notice my bench and tri-presses went way up..

I've read that about winny as well, but not sure how useful it really is in the practical world. Winny will also bind SHBG strongly (much like proviron), thus increasing free test. levels. However, if your test levels are very low due to shutdown from deca, it won't matter much.

Second, I wouldn't expect to see much of any significant change by week 2.

Lastly, I'd have to strongly agree with Wolfy. Deca alone, and winny too, will shut you down for sure. Add some test in your cycle. Better yet, maybe even just consider winny and test. As Wolfy says, it's more than just about avoiding deca-dick......test helps avoid depression, fatigue, decreased bone density, etc.

 

[squater]

Wolfy is absolutely correct...Yea you don't have to use test if you choose not too...I'm not to many years away from 50 yrs old...I can honestly say that I've never ever done a cycle without test...I also know that when my deca got to close to my test dosages my dick absolutely shut down...This is why I always have Proviron at hand ...ALWAYS...
I think the younger guys may get away with that...but I can tell you for a fact the older you get the more it will catch up with you...
I've been doing gear since 1980...so I'm drawing on my 25 yrs.+ of experience...for what that's worth...

 

[Strongman]

I guess what it all boils down to is.

Can you do a deca only cycle with proper precatuions, have good results, and recover? Yes

Is it the best way? Most likely not. Test can add other side effects but will help to counter some sides from deca.

Ultimately it comes down to how well you know your body and how your body reacts to lower test levels.

Like I have said...I know "vets" that have done deca only cycles while taking precautions and recovered fine.

I also know some who have done test/deca and limited their deca sides but had a couple of test sides.

And then their are those that have done test/deca and had minimal sides and great results.

Personally I believe Test should be the base of every cycle, but I do know people who have done deca only, Anadrol only, winstrol only, etc... and they were able to gain as well as keep some of the gains.

So in other words.....Deca only may not be the "best" way but it can be managed. I've seen it.....Maybe not on paper, but in real world eperiences.

By the way DecaDude...Don't worry...There is no flaming between Wolfy or myself....These discussions are just meant to stimulate further discussion and knowledge/learning amongst members....All is good!!!

 

[DecaDude]

Thanks. Very positive remarks. I will definitely look into introducing Test. into week three. Although I have some concerns about aromatizing the extra Test.

PCT will include Clomid after the 3rd week after last injection.

If I do introduce Test. what levels should I use if I am using 400mg Deca with 50mg Winny (EOD)?

Thanks.

 

[Strongman]

Personally I would recommend at least 1.5X what you are using for Deca...So about 600mg or more. If you have cocerns regarding gyno you can:

A) take 10-20mg of Novaldex per day
B) Just make sure you have plenty of Novaldex on hand and continually monitor for any signs of gyno...Itchiness, puffiness, small lumps, etc...

 

[squater]

60-40....is a good rule of thumb with test being the 60%