- Feb 2, 2013
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PN: I remember back at SWIS last year, you had this great way of categorizing people into four categories, four levels of excellence — or lack thereof, in some cases…
DT: Shit, suck, good, great.
PN: Yeah, that was it. [Laughs.] Can you tell us about those four levels, the difference between them, and how you get from one to the next?
DT: I think that no matter what you’re doing, you fall into one of those levels. Now, I mean, within the realm that we’re discussing, that is. This isn’t a blanket judgment of the person as a whole, like the person is totally shit or whatever. I mean within a specific area, or skill set, or endeavor. Their training may be totally shit, but their diet may be great. Or vice versa. So we need to establish that we’re talking about specific skills here.
But yeah, shit, suck, good, great. I’ll use the example of general fitness. Most people in the United States are shit. I mean, diabetes is on the rise, and . . . well, never mind, everything that could possibly go wrong is going wrong. Diet is definitely a huge problem. And it’s not the only problem. These people aren’t doing anything! They stay indoors, they’re not active, they watch TV, they don’t even walk to their neighbor’s house to talk or maintain any sort of relationship with those around them. If you ask most people who their neighbors are, they don’t even know their names. Everyone is becoming a house rat. Which, by the way, if you’re in the e-commerce industry is not a bad thing. [Laughs.] But that’s kind of what we’ve become. So their fitness is complete shit.
Now if they take the first step, join a gym and so on, well yeah, then they go to suck, because the first step is a big thing. But personally I don’t give a shit about the person who took the first step, I really don’t. [Laughs.] I don’t praise them, and I don’t want to praise them. I know that 99% of people that take that first step are never going to go any further. In fact, they’re probably going to regress. I’m sure you’ve seen this, every trainer or weightlifter in the world has seen it: you’re sitting around the table with some friends and they start asking you about training or nutrition or whatever. First thing that goes through your mind is, “Is this guy really serious, or is he just wasting my time?” because you know it’s going to take more than two minutes to answer the question. So right off the bat you’re trying to gauge if he’s even willing to do what it takes to move past the first step. 99% of the time you’re going to give him the short answer, because you already know it will never go past that. You’ve already spent thousands of conversations laying shit out for people, family members, friends, whoever it is, to have your time just essentially fucking wasted. [Laughs.] Which is what it is! And to make matters worse, they don’t understand that your time is of value, and that it’s what you do for a living. So that’s why I don’t care about those people. You say you’re going to start working out? Great. Your New Year’s resolution is to start working out? Great. I don’t give a shit. In fact, in my business I don’t even target those people. That’s where the biggest market is, by the way, but I don’t want to deal with them.
Now “good.” These people have stuck for a while. They’re actually going to the gym, three or four days a week, for a couple of years. And they’re good. You go in the gym, you’ll find ‘em. Just sit there at five o’clock, during the busy time of any commercial gym. You’re going to see “shit” out the ass. You’re going to see “suck” out the ass. But you’ll also find about five or six “good.” And by “good” in the weight room, what I mean is you’ll see movements that are fluid, that look like they have purpose, they’ll have muscles that are actually contracting, they have control of their body. You could go over and ask them, “Hey, flex your triceps for me,” and they can do it without moving their shoulder or biceps. These people have been doing it for a while, and they’ve got a bit of a passion for it. Those are the people I like. Because those are the people that will take the advice that you give and actually try to use it. Those are the people that you can take from good to great – if they’re willing to put the effort in. But here too, most of these people will just stay at “good,” they won’t be willing to go the distance.
Shit to suck is say 50 or 60 stairs, big stairs. And suck to good, that’s another 50, 60 stairs. I mean, there’s a big difference between the guy who just walked in the gym and says, “I’m gonna do this,” and the guy who actually does it for a few years, and has fluid movements and knows how to control his body. That’s going from a beginner to an intermediate in weight training, and that can be three to five years for some people. More, for others. And a lot of people are content to stay there, and I’m happy with that. I’m cool with that, because for most people, it’s not their life, it’s not their driving passion. It’s just something they really, really love to do. And so that’s where they stay.
Now to go from good to great? That’s only three or four steps. But they’re three or four steps that people aren’t willing to take. Getting down to 10% body fat is no big deal. Going to 3%? That’s a big fucking deal. But the process isn’t any different. The suffering is. You just have to suffer more, suffer longer. You think 30 grams of carbs is bad? Wait until you drop down to none. You’re suffering. Those three steps are when you’re sitting there at night, with cravings out the ass, and the best you can do is cheat and have a sugar-free popsicle, and you have to be content with that. Those three steps are the difference. And those three steps are what make the competitive athlete.
Now there is another step: the extraordinary. And that’s a whole other world. That’s only about half a step. Those are the great athletes that step up and those who go out and change the landscape. And obviously, they’re rare. Real rare. It’s not even another step, it’s just a different intellectual level that most people will never, ever get to in anything they ever do in their lives. But we can see it, we can admire it. That’s when you get the goosebumps, the feeling like you’re watching something truly special. That’s the epitome of sport, the epitome of fitness. And it really has nothing to do with fitness, it’s just heart. You can have a Michael Jordan, who makes everybody want to stand up and say, “wow,” and you can have a Special Olympian do the same thing. It’s just heart. It’s a level you can’t teach, you can just observe.
DT: Shit, suck, good, great.
PN: Yeah, that was it. [Laughs.] Can you tell us about those four levels, the difference between them, and how you get from one to the next?
DT: I think that no matter what you’re doing, you fall into one of those levels. Now, I mean, within the realm that we’re discussing, that is. This isn’t a blanket judgment of the person as a whole, like the person is totally shit or whatever. I mean within a specific area, or skill set, or endeavor. Their training may be totally shit, but their diet may be great. Or vice versa. So we need to establish that we’re talking about specific skills here.
But yeah, shit, suck, good, great. I’ll use the example of general fitness. Most people in the United States are shit. I mean, diabetes is on the rise, and . . . well, never mind, everything that could possibly go wrong is going wrong. Diet is definitely a huge problem. And it’s not the only problem. These people aren’t doing anything! They stay indoors, they’re not active, they watch TV, they don’t even walk to their neighbor’s house to talk or maintain any sort of relationship with those around them. If you ask most people who their neighbors are, they don’t even know their names. Everyone is becoming a house rat. Which, by the way, if you’re in the e-commerce industry is not a bad thing. [Laughs.] But that’s kind of what we’ve become. So their fitness is complete shit.
Now if they take the first step, join a gym and so on, well yeah, then they go to suck, because the first step is a big thing. But personally I don’t give a shit about the person who took the first step, I really don’t. [Laughs.] I don’t praise them, and I don’t want to praise them. I know that 99% of people that take that first step are never going to go any further. In fact, they’re probably going to regress. I’m sure you’ve seen this, every trainer or weightlifter in the world has seen it: you’re sitting around the table with some friends and they start asking you about training or nutrition or whatever. First thing that goes through your mind is, “Is this guy really serious, or is he just wasting my time?” because you know it’s going to take more than two minutes to answer the question. So right off the bat you’re trying to gauge if he’s even willing to do what it takes to move past the first step. 99% of the time you’re going to give him the short answer, because you already know it will never go past that. You’ve already spent thousands of conversations laying shit out for people, family members, friends, whoever it is, to have your time just essentially fucking wasted. [Laughs.] Which is what it is! And to make matters worse, they don’t understand that your time is of value, and that it’s what you do for a living. So that’s why I don’t care about those people. You say you’re going to start working out? Great. Your New Year’s resolution is to start working out? Great. I don’t give a shit. In fact, in my business I don’t even target those people. That’s where the biggest market is, by the way, but I don’t want to deal with them.
Now “good.” These people have stuck for a while. They’re actually going to the gym, three or four days a week, for a couple of years. And they’re good. You go in the gym, you’ll find ‘em. Just sit there at five o’clock, during the busy time of any commercial gym. You’re going to see “shit” out the ass. You’re going to see “suck” out the ass. But you’ll also find about five or six “good.” And by “good” in the weight room, what I mean is you’ll see movements that are fluid, that look like they have purpose, they’ll have muscles that are actually contracting, they have control of their body. You could go over and ask them, “Hey, flex your triceps for me,” and they can do it without moving their shoulder or biceps. These people have been doing it for a while, and they’ve got a bit of a passion for it. Those are the people I like. Because those are the people that will take the advice that you give and actually try to use it. Those are the people that you can take from good to great – if they’re willing to put the effort in. But here too, most of these people will just stay at “good,” they won’t be willing to go the distance.
Shit to suck is say 50 or 60 stairs, big stairs. And suck to good, that’s another 50, 60 stairs. I mean, there’s a big difference between the guy who just walked in the gym and says, “I’m gonna do this,” and the guy who actually does it for a few years, and has fluid movements and knows how to control his body. That’s going from a beginner to an intermediate in weight training, and that can be three to five years for some people. More, for others. And a lot of people are content to stay there, and I’m happy with that. I’m cool with that, because for most people, it’s not their life, it’s not their driving passion. It’s just something they really, really love to do. And so that’s where they stay.
Now to go from good to great? That’s only three or four steps. But they’re three or four steps that people aren’t willing to take. Getting down to 10% body fat is no big deal. Going to 3%? That’s a big fucking deal. But the process isn’t any different. The suffering is. You just have to suffer more, suffer longer. You think 30 grams of carbs is bad? Wait until you drop down to none. You’re suffering. Those three steps are when you’re sitting there at night, with cravings out the ass, and the best you can do is cheat and have a sugar-free popsicle, and you have to be content with that. Those three steps are the difference. And those three steps are what make the competitive athlete.
Now there is another step: the extraordinary. And that’s a whole other world. That’s only about half a step. Those are the great athletes that step up and those who go out and change the landscape. And obviously, they’re rare. Real rare. It’s not even another step, it’s just a different intellectual level that most people will never, ever get to in anything they ever do in their lives. But we can see it, we can admire it. That’s when you get the goosebumps, the feeling like you’re watching something truly special. That’s the epitome of sport, the epitome of fitness. And it really has nothing to do with fitness, it’s just heart. You can have a Michael Jordan, who makes everybody want to stand up and say, “wow,” and you can have a Special Olympian do the same thing. It’s just heart. It’s a level you can’t teach, you can just observe.
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