Good pump = Good sarcoplasmic hypertrophy workout?

[RandomBear]

So recently i started on Mike Mentzer's program and at the end of the workout i have the biggest pumps of my life and i love the workout, just that i'm not sure if it will help me grow bigger. Is a good pump at the end of the workout an indication that your body is compatible with the workout and would grow(considering if your diet is right and have enough sleep)? If not, how do you know that you just had a good workout?

 

[AtomAnt]

I've said this in some other threads, but growth comes from inducing muscular damage through exercise (micro-trauma). By breaking down the muscle to a significant degree you rpvide more opportunity for growth. When nurition and recovery are on point, the areas of the muscle where trauma was caused are going to rebuild and grow to accomodate and adapt to the repeatedly increased stress placed on the muscle (progressive overload).

If you are getting stronger from training session to training session then you are on the right path. it you are sore after training, you have induced muscular trauma. If you can't tell that you had a good training session, then you likely need more experience to learn about your body. The pump simply means that the blood volume in the muscle had increased. It is not nnecessary for growth, but in some programs just comes along with the territory.

 

[RandomBear]

Ok well here's the other thing, during the workout my muscles burn like hell but the next day though the muscle soreness wasn't really there.

So no soreness=no growth?

 

[AtomAnt]

Ok well here's the other thing, during the workout my muscles burn like hell but the next day though the muscle soreness wasn't really there.

So no soreness=no growth?

No, soreness is just a clear indicator of waste byproduct created through training. The only way to tell how effectively you damaged the muscle is to take a cross sectional biopsy.

If you leave the gym feeling like you were hit by a truck, I'd say that you did yourself well, pump or no pump.

 

[Ironbuilt]

Yeah waste is the lactic acid which is the burn..focus
Intensity and repetion of correct movement mean growth.just do it.

 

[turbobusa]

Good pumps do count for me. Big pump by w/o's end then flat as fuck hours later means training was very good. Then carbed up (super comp) for same b'parts next session. Great pump again llittle more cell volume each time. Yes you can grow without getting super painful intense pumps but I think a combo approach will cover more cellular aspects .I typically start a session slower and heavier and the tempo/ reps elavate as the w/o progresses . Legs in particular respond really well for me when I get that knee to hip pump where walking is a mfer til blood dissapates . That is when my legs really take off growth wise.I believe we are born with the amount of muscle cells we will have so other than hyperplasia( If possible)cellular size increases is what makes muscles get larger. Inter muscular h20 when glycogen loaded provides much of the muscle size increase. Train hard / recover well . That is the way. T

 

[Enigmatic707]

I keep bringing this up and I feel it's a drastically overlooked aspect of muscle hypertrophy- mitochondrial proliferation.

Of course we all know that stress induced muscle damage correlates to a response in growth and hypertrophy, but the cell does not simply volumize without other intra cellular components being altered as well. The most important of which I believe to be mitochondrial proliferation.

It's my belief that without inducing enough of a workload (force x time) that most volumization will be temporary and will result in nothing more than increased glycogen stores. But if we looked at different protocols and apply them at the right time (periodization) then we could gain more "long term" muscle.

I think I am going to have to do a write up on this- but I just wanted to keep this idea going for now.

 

[RandomBear]

Thanks for the replies guys

 

[turbobusa]

I remember years ago doung a squat routine outlined by fred hatfield . Was size/strength routine not a pling regimen. 3 sets of 3-5 reps after very proper warm with "feelers" to working wt. then 2-3 mid rep sets 10-15 reps
followed by 2-3 sets slomo's that were excruciatingly extreme slow rep rate.
So now you have most aspects covered . Used that routine on a couple of hard gainers I was training and my self . Great leg growth! Heavy/ pump / Tut with pump. That is why I usually start heavy and a bit slower with a temp increase as w/o progresses. Mentzer was a really smart guy and the first pro i met as a kid . I think his way worked for him. I think Yates way was a bit more
all aspect encompassing though . Kind of a refinement Of MM'S stuff.
Platz's legs are a classic example of muscles that have been trained from all aspects.
Wt/pump/ time under tension etc. Wording was a bit different 30 yrs ago
but had it all covered. Power lifters typically go through a hypertrophy segment(weeks/months) followed by deconditioning. Ok I gonna shut up and go do it now. have a great day. T

 

[Enigmatic707]

I remember years ago doung a squat routine outlined by fred hatfield . Was size/strength routine not a pling regimen. 3 sets of 3-5 reps after very proper warm with "feelers" to working wt. then 2-3 mid rep sets 10-15 reps
followed by 2-3 sets slomo's that were excruciatingly extreme slow rep rate.
So now you have most aspects covered . Used that routine on a couple of hard gainers I was training and my self . Great leg growth! Heavy/ pump / Tut with pump. That is why I usually start heavy and a bit slower with a temp increase as w/o progresses. Mentzer was a really smart guy and the first pro i met as a kid . I think his way worked for him. I think Yates way was a bit more
all aspect encompassing though . Kind of a refinement Of MM'S stuff.
Platz's legs are a classic example of muscles that have been trained from all aspects.
Wt/pump/ time under tension etc. Wording was a bit different 30 yrs ago
but had it all covered. Power lifters typically go through a hypertrophy segment(weeks/months) followed by deconditioning. Ok I gonna shut up and go do it now. have a great day. T

Very well said.

 

[thebrick]

Good pumps do count for me. Big pump by w/o's end then flat as fuck hours later means training was very good. Then carbed up (super comp) for same b'parts next session. Great pump again llittle more cell volume each time. Yes you can grow without getting super painful intense pumps but I think a combo approach will cover more cellular aspects .I typically start a session slower and heavier and the tempo/ reps elavate as the w/o progresses . Legs in particular respond really well for me when I get that knee to hip pump where walking is a mfer til blood dissapates . That is when my legs really take off growth wise.I believe we are born with the amount of muscle cells we will have so other than hyperplasia( If possible)cellular size increases is what makes muscles get larger. Inter muscular h20 when glycogen loaded provides much of the muscle size increase. Train hard / recover well . That is the way. T

Couldn't agree more. Fast twitch, slow twitch cells, hit them from all sides! You have to move some real weight AND make it burn or your body will be happy with the status quo IMO

 

[VanillaMandingo]

I remember years ago reading where Dan Duchaine commented on this. He said, if I recall correctly, that he went years training calves with no pump and coincidentally no growth. I can say from my experience that my biceps are my only body part that have refused to grow so far and are the only one that do not get a pump. As I have stated before on another board, I am no pro. This is just my experience.

 

[AtomAnt]

I remember years ago reading where Dan Duchaine commented on this. He said, if I recall correctly, that he went years training calves with no pump and coincidentally no growth. I can say from my experience that my biceps are my only body part that have refused to grow so far and are the only one that do not get a pump. As I have stated before on another board, I am no pro. This is just my experience.

If a muscle is mainly built of fast twitch fibers and you don't train it accordingly, then it won't hypertrophy. Same holds true for slow twitch muscles, but slow twitch muscles have far less propensity or will hypertrophy to a significantly less degree.

You aren't going to change the composition of the muscle fiber, but you can train to maximize hypertrophy for the fibers that are there.

 

[Concreteguy]

Good pumps do count for me. Big pump by w/o's end then flat as fuck hours later means training was very good. Then carbed up (super comp) for same b'parts next session. Great pump again llittle more cell volume each time. Yes you can grow without getting super painful intense pumps but I think a combo approach will cover more cellular aspects .I typically start a session slower and heavier and the tempo/ reps elavate as the w/o progresses . Legs in particular respond really well for me when I get that knee to hip pump where walking is a mfer til blood dissapates . That is when my legs really take off growth wise.I believe we are born with the amount of muscle cells we will have so other than hyperplasia( If possible)cellular size increases is what makes muscles get larger. Inter muscular h20 when glycogen loaded provides much of the muscle size increase. Train hard / recover well . That is the way. T

:yeahthat:

CG

 

[tri-terror]

I think the pump is important, but not the be all end all. I believe you need to train for strength first and foremost, and "finish off" if you will, the muscles trained with a pump.

Keep in mind when I say training for "strength" I don't mean like a powerlifter 1 rep max kind of strength. I mean strength within your rep ranges.
For example, CG is using lighter weight and cranking out reps. IMHO, if he keeps using the same weight over time he will stagnate. So if he's doing 20+ reps per set with x weight now, then in a year he should be doing the same reps with x+y weight. Where y is really anything, as long as it is MORE than x was by itself.

This is why I really like to train with heavy weight FIRST in my workout and do descending pyramids. I hit the muscle hard and heavy and then lower the weight and get more sets and more volume in.
Volume for me is variable. I train until I get the pump and feel super tight and light weights are heavy. If I ever start to LOSE it, I quit right then and there. That is your sign of overtraining, when you start to lose your pump.

 

[AtomAnt]

I'm going to go out a limb and say that it is not necessarily the pump that matters, it is the stretching of the fascia. Whether you do that by gettign a pump or by extreme stretching, expaning the fascia and thus allowing more room for growth does seem to have merits.