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Long and short esters

OuchThatHurts

AnaSCI VIP
Jul 27, 2007
184
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Pennsylvania, USA
This is ridiculous. All of this is to create a long-lasting reservoir of testosterone with an intramuscular injection. We're talking in this thread about long and short esters, not testosterone or testosterone base (or TNE as it's called). Some in-plasma testosterone is obviously converted to estrogen via aromatization but esterified testosterone is created artificially with the process of esterification to increase the weight of the molecule and improve the solubility in OIL (fat) so it can be placed in depot via intramuscular injection. The longer the ester, the better the solubility and greater hydrophobicity of the esterified testosterone (the solute) to create a longer delivery mechanism.

In reality, the release rate is not very steady. It's very high in the beginning and then rapidly falls to a lower level and only then slowly drops as the size of the reservoir diminishes. Where it becomes somewhat different is in the time it takes to diminish. With longer esters, each subsequent reservoir that is created acts similarly so by the 3rd or 4th dose, you have several reservoirs releasing their payload (testosterone x) simultaneously and their effect is cumulative and eventually reaches a high level and stays that way (steady-state plasma level). The time it takes the ester to be cleaved is of no consequence. Because the level high, steadily for such a long period, more is converted and reduced along with metabolization. With shorter esters, which are absorbed more quickly, there is less time at very high plasma levels and less time for aromatization and 5-alpha reduction to occur throughout the body. Not a lot less, just a bit less. Enough though, for some people to notice somewhat less estrogenic side effects (water retention, etc). The amount of aromatization that occurs in adipose tissue is so tiny that it is unlikely to account for what some people notice as the difference between long and short esterified testosterone - particularly people with low amounts of adipose tissue.
 

Elvia1023

AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
Oct 28, 2007
5,822
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Agree with the above. I like to experiment and try to constantly learn new things regarding aas but some people really do put far too much thought into them. Saying test e is not an anabolic hormone is plain silly to me. I am nothing special but I often wonder what some of these posters look like who are so anal about hormones. Are they at the top of bb and looking for that extra edge or are they under 200 pounds and 12 bf%.
 

butthole69

Registered User
Feb 3, 2013
213
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This is ridiculous. All of this is to create a long-lasting reservoir of testosterone with an intramuscular injection. We're talking in this thread about long and short esters, not testosterone or testosterone base (or TNE as it's called)

In reality, the release rate is not very steady.

No, I am referring to testosterone no ester in oil. Water based products actually create a depot because of the physical characteristics of the test crystals. I saw a study that said Winstrol V had an active life of over a week because the crystals take so long to dissolve.

With suspension only the surface of each crystal is exposed. With testosterone no ester in oil the entire bolus of testosterone is immediately available for uptake into the bloodstream.
 

OuchThatHurts

AnaSCI VIP
Jul 27, 2007
184
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Pennsylvania, USA
No, I am referring to testosterone no ester in oil. Water based products actually create a depot because of the physical characteristics of the test crystals. I saw a study that said Winstrol V had an active life of over a week because the crystals take so long to dissolve.

With suspension only the surface of each crystal is exposed. With testosterone no ester in oil the entire bolus of testosterone is immediately available for uptake into the bloodstream.
You were the one who brought the pharmacokinetics of non-esterified testosterone into this thread. Nobody is referring to water or oil-based suspensions of testosterone in the thread (see: thread title). We are discussing the difference between the effects of long and short esterified compounds and the difference in pharmacokinetics of esterified compounds. Testosterone, testosterone base, or "TNE" (all the same thing) would warrant a dedicated thread since pharmacologically, suspensions behave differently.

The other matter that needs immediately debunked (or bunked, I don't know which) is the idea that one's testosterone levels must remain steady to be productive. That's ridiculous (and quite impossible). If you knew how much your natural levels of testosterone fluctuated day-to-day, week-to-week, and you still have a strong libido, strength and size gains. A normal, natural healthy male gets up in the morning, his total testosterone level (TT) may be 750ng's/dL. Yet, by that night, his levels may have dropped to 200 or 300ng's/dL. Does he lose any mass or sex drive or get fat? The next week, his testosterone upon waking may be 400ng's/dL and 150ng's/dL by nightfall. Men have been living with these relatively large fluctuations in testosterone for thousands of years with no problems.

With superphysiological doses of testosterone all one has to do is keep it constantly HIGH - not necessarily steady. When you begin regulating your own testosterone levels, that is, administering doses of exogenous testosterone, you shut down your endogenous production. So now, the important part is making sure you don't find yourself in a poor situation of subphysiological levels of testosterone. This all depends on making sure your administration is correct and that you keep levels in the normal range or high above the normal range.

I understand that there are some products that are relatively new and selling well and being promoted heavily as the next "best testosterone". Well, let me dispell the myths right now. It's all bullshit. There is only testosterone - "test is test is test" as the saying goes. Testosterone is high in androgens and conversion to estrogen and dihydrotestosterone. There are much better muscle builders out there today but make no mistake: all of them are AR-mediated to a greater of lesser extent. In other words, test is still king, just improved for existing applications. Just how rapid and how high do you want your testosterone to go anyway? And how much estrogen control do you want to take to go along with it? How much trouble do you want to make for yourself? And what does 5-alpha reductase and your poor prostate and hairline have to say about all this?? Yikes.

I agree that this is being made way to complicated. And the more complicated a system, the more chances to screw it up.
 
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OuchThatHurts

AnaSCI VIP
Jul 27, 2007
184
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Pennsylvania, USA
Saying test e is not an anabolic hormone is plain silly to me.
All I think this is is just misunderstanding in the way it's worded. Of course T enanthate is anabolic - but only once it has crossed into the blood stream and esterase enzymatic action cleaves the ester from the molecule and then free testosterone is in your bloodstream.

Basically it just comes down to this. T enanthate in your bloodstream is inert (unusable) UNTIL the ester is cleaved from the molecule. To say it's not anabolic begs the question, not anabolic when? Testosterone is anabolic.

At least I think that's where that was going.
 

butthole69

Registered User
Feb 3, 2013
213
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0
Agree with the above. I like to experiment and try to constantly learn new things regarding aas but some people really do put far too much thought into them. Saying test e is not an anabolic hormone is plain silly to me. I am nothing special but I often wonder what some of these posters look like who are so anal about hormones. Are they at the top of bb and looking for that extra edge or are they under 200 pounds and 12 bf%.

I'm not trying to argue or step on anyone's toes. I'm sure there are guys who have more impressive physiques than mine that have been built with only test-e and deca. But, I have a college education and some of the science here is wrong. I thought it would be helpful to clear up the misconceptions and then post it on a public website for free - giving anasci.org all copyright.
 

OuchThatHurts

AnaSCI VIP
Jul 27, 2007
184
2
18
Pennsylvania, USA
I'm not trying to argue or step on anyone's toes. I'm sure there are guys who have more impressive physiques than mine that have been built with only test-e and deca. But, I have a college education and some of the science here is wrong. I thought it would be helpful to clear up the misconceptions and then post it on a public website for free - giving anasci.org all copyright.
It's not always easy to take "butthole69" seriously. Would I be taken seriously if my name was analfixation2013? LOL! My bad, the obviousness of that is just funny!
 
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Elvia1023

AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
Oct 28, 2007
5,822
18
38
All I think this is is just misunderstanding in the way it's worded. Of course T enanthate is anabolic - but only once it has crossed into the blood stream and esterase enzymatic action cleaves the ester from the molecule and then free testosterone is in your bloodstream.

Basically it just comes down to this. T enanthate in your bloodstream is inert (unusable) UNTIL the ester is cleaved from the molecule. To say it's not anabolic begs the question, not anabolic when? Testosterone is anabolic.

At least I think that's where that was going.

Thanks for the info. As you say it's hard to take a username like butthole69 seriously :D That's why I thought he had wrote that statement as he keeps mentioning how test is not active until it hits the blood etc. But to say test e is not an anabolic hormones is plain silly to me. He's way overthinking things imo. As you say test is anabolic. The ester is not anabolic. The two called are both anabolic and non anabolic at different times. So obviously test e is an anabolic hormone. Sounds pretty simple but just the ay I look at it.

Butthole your knowledge is great and I would never deny that. I just think you skip over some basic things in order to get to the complicated stuff. Your an American so will use this analogy... Abit like going to play a football match and you bring your helmet, shoulder pads, knee pads, shoes, gloves... but you forget the ball :D It's the basics in this that will give you most of the results. Anyway off to work :( Have a good day everyone.
 

Elvia1023

AnaSCI VET / Donating Member
Oct 28, 2007
5,822
18
38
I'm not trying to argue or step on anyone's toes. I'm sure there are guys who have more impressive physiques than mine that have been built with only test-e and deca. But, I have a college education and some of the science here is wrong. I thought it would be helpful to clear up the misconceptions and then post it on a public website for free - giving anasci.org all copyright.

Well your posts are the ones that have made me think the most so your only adding to this place so don't think your stepping on my shoes.
 

butthole69

Registered User
Feb 3, 2013
213
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0
Thanks then I will continue posting. And yea it's a fair criticism that this stuff is all unnecessary information but I luv steroids so it's fun for me to talk about. Obviously the average amateur weightlifter doesn't need to know the details on how lipase enzymes remove esters lol