I was reading about Arimidex and it sounds like it would be much better to use then nolva. maybe producing a harder muscle gain. Do any of you guys have any advice on this issue?
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Pct
- Thread starter travis
- Start date
some people do...i personally wouldnt......it will kill all the estrogen in your body...you dont want that.....you need some for healthy function.....nolva/clomid or nolva only is very sufficient for PCt
Testosperone
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2005
- 142
- 0
- 0
hey i heard nova/clomid. but i am kinda iffey on if i wanna use clomid because it makes u crazy. is nova only ok for pct and if so what doses and do will it be suffiecent coming off a test e / winny cycle and what are the pros cons of using clomid with nova.
Testosperone said:
clomid makes you crazy??? some guys "claim" it makes them emotional....but even nolva only can do this......just stick w/ doses of 100mg or 50mg a day of clomid...no need for more than that....i like 100mg clomid and 20mg of nolva for about 2 weeks, then 50mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva for another week or 2.........
nolva only is still fine......id run it 20-40mg a day for about 4 weeks
stealthmeister
Registered User
Clomid can also rarely cause visual problems. It is more common with high dose or prolonged use, but can happen even with 50mg ED for less than 2 wks., which is the typical test time to see if your LH levels go up by 50% in response. Anyways, the visual disturbances usually resolve quickly once off clomid.Testosperone said:
stealthmeister
Registered User
Oh yeah.....speaking of visual disturbances and being emotional.....any thoughts on my new avatar? Not nearly as 'stealthy' as the prior one, but far more sexy.stealthmeister said:
ben johnson
Registered User
from whay i have read and been told by pin, nolva has less sides than clomid with the same results...
ben johnson said:
in restoring the natural test, LH, and FSH levels, nolva takes a bit longer.....thats really the key difference
Testosperone
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2005
- 142
- 0
- 0
here homey, think about this....
by Pheedno
Pheedno's PCT
My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended PCT protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles
PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex
Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:
1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex
Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis
by Pheedno
Pheedno's PCT
My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended PCT protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles
PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex
Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:
1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex
Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis
stealthmeister
Registered User
Nice info and review a-bomb. I think his clomid doses are a bit high though. Also, combined arimidex (or letrozole also) and nolva for fairly long periods will also be very hard on your cholesterol (decrease good HDL, raise bad LDL). Not to get too far off the thread, but that's why I'd like to see more sources carry lipitor / zocor in generic form (simvastatin / lovastatin). Everyone on long cycles of AAS with anti-e's should be on them to improve your cholesterol. IP carried zocor very cheap ($150 for 1000 tabs), but sounds like he may not be around anymore.