AAARG, so frustrated with TRT

[Cannons]

Why won't urologists prescribe HCG or anti-estrogens? Secondly, I get my test from an endo, but they don't handle HCG or anti-e's the urologists do. That is strange to me! I don't really want to pay for it myself if I can get it through insurance. This one urologist was such a douche about it. I am still searching, but that entails going to an appointment waisting my time for them to say no. I don't want more kids, I just don't want to shut my system down totally (HCG) and I want to have some estrogen control because I am ultra sensitive. I already have a lump under my right nipple, and that is only on 100mg weekly of cyp. I want to find some micronized suspension and do everyday injections. That should alleviate the estrogen problems for the most part.

 

[MR. BMJ]

You may want to look up the protocol that emeric at Professional Muscle talks about and follows, as well as MassiveG, where you only inject 20-40mg EOD subcutaneously (with an insulin pin). A lot of people are raving about it, and at this dosing range, it will not create such a need for an AI and estrogen control. That said, I use an AI always to help keep estrogen levels balanced not just for nipple sensitivity/lumps, but also for the prostate. Are you able to just order a liquid AI from one of the research sites? Your natural test is going to be inhibited once you start trt, but the hcg can help keep them full for 'aesthetic' purposes.

 

[Akamai]

As BM to the J said EMERICS low dose protocol will help keep e2 levels in check, and to gain or blast as some say just increase the daily or EOD dose.

Ak

 

[Cannons]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have seen that subcutaneous injection protocol a couple other places as well, but it seemed like it would leave hard lumps and take forever to dissipate. I'll look for his post.

 

[Kconan]

Having taken an extended break from the boards the past couple of years, this taking test (or oils in general) subq is a new thing for me. My concerns are not only the potential for lumps, but even like 50mg should take forever to push through a slin pin.

 

[cybrsage]

I have taken my test-cyp trt shot SubQ before - for a month or so. Only once did it leave a bump in my skin, but that was probably my fault, a bad angle or something.

I had no problem pushing the oil through a 29g 1/2in needle. It took it a bit, but remember you are pushing such a small amount.

I found I felt better using a standard E3.5 day IM TRT shot.

 

[cybrsage]

Why won't urologists prescribe HCG or anti-estrogens? Secondly, I get my test from an endo, but they don't handle HCG or anti-e's the urologists do. That is strange to me! I don't really want to pay for it myself if I can get it through insurance. This one urologist was such a douche about it. I am still searching, but that entails going to an appointment waisting my time for them to say no. I don't want more kids, I just don't want to shut my system down totally (HCG) and I want to have some estrogen control because I am ultra sensitive. I already have a lump under my right nipple, and that is only on 100mg weekly of cyp. I want to find some micronized suspension and do everyday injections. That should alleviate the estrogen problems for the most part.

HCG is SUPER cheap from under ground labs - and it is quality stuff (it is too cheap to fake it). in fact, PSL sells 5000IU ampules of it. That is what I use, and have used for LONG before the made me a rep. If you want it, check it out. I use 250IU twice a week to keep the boys plump.

It is odd, because the rules on who can prescribe what changes based on the location where you life. In my State, the urologist cannot prescribe, only an endo can.

 

[trtguy]

I read so many post and it seems here is talk about using HCG so thier balls dont shrink. I am confused by this. I read where guys were taking like 200mg a week of test-cpy. That is way to much. Do the math. Average guys produces 6mg a day. That is 42mg a week. My doctor has me on 100mg a month! I feel great. We might have to adjust it. My balls are fine. i do not have tits. My body is making testosterone but not enough. The dose I am on is not to overload what I am making and shut down my balls. More is not better. i understand body builders what the high doses. I lost so much belly fat and I work out. I was not fat to begin with, just had a belly. My workouts are great and I have energy. Still working on the ED though. that is getting better. Doc says lets do the 100mg/month. See in 3 months then adjust. I think some guys are just taking too much. My small dose is letting my body (balls) do some work. MY balls get so big when I get aroused. they must be working hahaha.

 

[trtguy]

Oh i forgot to mention, I am doing IM injections. the patches sucked, they did nothing for me.

 

[cybrsage]

I read so many post and it seems here is talk about using HCG so thier balls dont shrink. I am confused by this. I read where guys were taking like 200mg a week of test-cpy. That is way to much. Do the math. Average guys produces 6mg a day. That is 42mg a week. My doctor has me on 100mg a month! I feel great. We might have to adjust it. My balls are fine. i do not have tits. My body is making testosterone but not enough. The dose I am on is not to overload what I am making and shut down my balls. More is not better. i understand body builders what the high doses. I lost so much belly fat and I work out. I was not fat to begin with, just had a belly. My workouts are great and I have energy. Still working on the ED though. that is getting better. Doc says lets do the 100mg/month. See in 3 months then adjust. I think some guys are just taking too much. My small dose is letting my body (balls) do some work. MY balls get so big when I get aroused. they must be working hahaha.

My body only makes 153ng/dL - with 250ng/dL being the lower end of acceptable (and where 90 year olds fall). Basically, I make no test.

I am taking 150mg test-cyp a week and it puts me in the mid 500ng/dL range. When I add HCG, it forced my body to keep making the scant 153, which pushes me into the lower 700s. I feel much better there.

Each person is different. Some people get a lot of result from a little test, some do not.

 

[Magnus82]

Do you happen to have blood work? I would love to see where that puts you

I read so many post and it seems here is talk about using HCG so thier balls dont shrink. I am confused by this. I read where guys were taking like 200mg a week of test-cpy. That is way to much. Do the math. Average guys produces 6mg a day. That is 42mg a week. My doctor has me on 100mg a month! I feel great. We might have to adjust it. My balls are fine. i do not have tits. My body is making testosterone but not enough. The dose I am on is not to overload what I am making and shut down my balls. More is not better. i understand body builders what the high doses. I lost so much belly fat and I work out. I was not fat to begin with, just had a belly. My workouts are great and I have energy. Still working on the ED though. that is getting better. Doc says lets do the 100mg/month. See in 3 months then adjust. I think some guys are just taking too much. My small dose is letting my body (balls) do some work. MY balls get so big when I get aroused. they must be working hahaha.

 

[ASHOP]

I read so many post and it seems here is talk about using HCG so thier balls dont shrink. I am confused by this. I read where guys were taking like 200mg a week of test-cpy. That is way to much. Do the math. Average guys produces 6mg a day. That is 42mg a week. My doctor has me on 100mg a month! I feel great. We might have to adjust it. My balls are fine. i do not have tits. My body is making testosterone but not enough. The dose I am on is not to overload what I am making and shut down my balls. More is not better. i understand body builders what the high doses. I lost so much belly fat and I work out. I was not fat to begin with, just had a belly. My workouts are great and I have energy. Still working on the ED though. that is getting better. Doc says lets do the 100mg/month. See in 3 months then adjust. I think some guys are just taking too much. My small dose is letting my body (balls) do some work. MY balls get so big when I get aroused. they must be working hahaha.

I don't like the once a month protocol. Typically after around day 10 your levels drop significantly. Have you labs to see where this is putting you?

 

[trtguy]

my starting blood work was 303mg/ml free was 14. The patches did absolutely nothing for me. I am starting my 3rd week. I will get one more shot beginning my 2nd month, I will have blood work at that end to see where my levels are. I heard going 4 weeks with one inject gives you ups and downs. The theory is since my body is making some testosterone, the doc does not what to shut down my body completely. She laughed, in a good way, when I mentioned balls shrinking and all. She says things have come a long way in treating with hormones. So far I still feel great. These two weeks i felt like the energizer bunny. No sore muscles, not tired, etc. I move fast, outdoor sports. Everyone is asking what I am on, hahaha. I do think by the last couple weeks, i might feel down, we will see. She wants to start me out slow and adjust as we go. So next month I get my blood work. I am glad it is at the end of the month to see how much test I have in my blood. I do not want the blood work after the shot, of course it will be high. Like someone said, everyone is different. If you take too much then estrogen kicks in. So she wants my body to still function along with the addition of external testosterone. Body builders take large amounts of test and that is why you hear so much about HCG and all. My ed is not completely cured, but she says that could take up to 3 months. When i got my first shot it surprised me and I said ouch. hahah The nurse said sorry. It wasn't that big of a needle. Just was like a pinch in my butt. I hope I did not offend anyone with my first post. I was on the body building site and that was just ridiculous what the guys were injecting.

 

[Dream_Big]

TRTguy,

I think you need to separate those on Dr prescribed TRT (varying dosage), from those who are on self prescribed TRT and those who take super-physiologic doses.

Even on legitimate TRT, different people respond differently to the same dosage…case in point, I'm a 39 year old male, athletic (I retired from the Marine Corps this year)...my natural testosterone level was 102 ng/dl (that's not a typo). After 2 months of 100mg per week of Test Cypionate, my testosterone level measured at 305 ng/dl. I am now prescribed 200mg per week to be in the 500-650 range. Another patient with 200mg Cyp may easily hit 900+ng/dl. My doctor is not a quack trying to make a quick buck, he serves as a department chair and a Professor of Urology at a leading medical college, specializes in male fertility, with published TRT research studies. The need for an AI to control estrogen is also individually tailored to the patient…I needed an AI at 100mg/wk…and typically men with higher fat % will carry more of the aromatase enzyme that aromatizes testosterone to estrogen, thus creating a higher level of estrogen. HCG was an option for me, but I declined it…most patients will opt for HCG to minimize testicular shrinkage or attempt to remain fertile if they desire to have children. Another item that is not often brought up with Dr. prescribed TRT…a few knowledgeable doctors will prescribe 0.5cc (200mg/ml) of Nandrolone (Deca) if the patient legitimately suffers from osteo or has joint problems, as Nandrolone has an anti-inflammatory property, but you can only buy it from a compounding pharmacy, as large pharmaceutical companies no longer produce it.

Keep in mind that not all Doctors level of knowledge on a specialty is the same…even with the best of intentions. Previous to this, I had a military medical doctor tell me my levels were fine and low-T is a trendy fad with no medical purpose! The next family doctor/GP wanted me to start TRT, but refused to go over 100mg/wk since 300ng/dl level is considered normal (albeit for a someone 80 years old)…luckily I was recommended a Urologist that actually gets it! While I'm hesitant to believe it, I'm glad that 100mg/month is working for you…as that would not work for most low test patients…I understand your Dr's theory for her methods, but I think you will find a better way in the near future. Considering the half life of Cypionate and/or Enanthate esters are 8-12 days (depending on your reference source), Dr's that are educated in TRT requirements will advocate for weekly injections. Luckily everything is covered by my insurance. Sorry for the long rant…just wanted to highlight that there isn't a 1x solution that fits everyone.

Wow…after all these years of lurking online, I finally wrote my first post here!

 

[trtguy]

dreambig, that is one of the best post I ever did read. I am starting out low levels. Next month I get my blood work done. I was complaining of being tired and ED problems, sore muscles. Since I got my shot, wow I am not tired anymore and my muscles are not sore. Still suffering from ED but was told that could take awhile to change. I do agree, 100mg seems low. I def am not suffering from small testicles. I am not fat to begin with, so my workouts have been really good. I do need to ask why sometimes my testicles seem small and soft while other times they are much larger and firm, hard to the touch. they hand low too. I dont mind staring out low and working my way up. I am going to ask to havce blood work done a couple weeks after the shot and 4 weeks after to compare.I do agree, wow your levels are super low verses mine were considered normal low. It depends on the person like you said. those numbers they come up with are not indiviual readings. I tell guys to get test now so they have a reference for later in life. Actually 1 year ago my reading was 380 then this past January it was 303. Like i said the goal is to find a level that works for me without shutting my testicles down. I would like to know if my brain is telling my balls to produce it or they not listening or my brain is not telling my balls to produce it. Would be nice to know, that makes all the difference in treatment. I am hoping my balls are not listening, cause I am thinking i will not have the estrogen problems since my brain is saying make more. Just a thought. Anyhow, I feel good so far. Feel like I am 30 again. I will keep you posted on my blood work, love to hear about yours. You seem to have it together.

 

[trtguy]

What are your thoughts on Free and Total Testosterone. It is the free that is used by the body cells. Even though my total was in the lower range my free was in the high range. Not sure how much consideration that is given when treating low testosterone.

 

[dcmelad]

Would anyone be able to help me figure out why I would have no libido with the following numbers? Dihydrotesterone 135
Dhea 277 SHBG 73 total test 1560 free test 203.2 and estradiol 30 I have had zero libido for close to 20 years now and in spite of raising my test to these levels it ruins my life. I get no pleasure from even looking at girls any more and that was my favorite thing to do.

 

[ketsugo]

Would anyone be able to help me figure out why I would have no libido with the following numbers? Dihydrotesterone 135
Dhea 277 SHBG 73 total test 1560 free test 203.2 and estradiol 30 I have had zero libido for close to 20 years now and in spite of raising my test to these levels it ruins my life. I get no pleasure from even looking at girls any more and that was my favorite thing to do.

If you have ruled out all medical causes , the symptoms of depression mimic those of low T . Only you can know just tossing that out

 

[suppdude]

What are your thoughts on Free and Total Testosterone. It is the free that is used by the body cells. Even though my total was in the lower range my free was in the high range. Not sure how much consideration that is given when treating low testosterone.

You'll get different answers on which is best to go by. Most go by free.

 

[Jtooswol]

Hcg during trt is ideal