A couple of questions on a starter cycle

[Daveyjones]

So im relatively new to steroids. I've been training for 6 soild years (started at 16 with highschool football) and dieting for three. Im 23 years old and been at a strength platuea for almost a year (tried diffrent routines, diets, ect) bench 495x1(proud of this lol) squat 630x3 and currently dead lift 495x5 ( have to be real careful with this lift, i fractured my l4 and l5 vertebrae as well as herniated a disk lifting about 600lbs on my fourth rep my junior year in highshcool) plate Loaded lat pull down 495x7 bent over row 225x5 (again have to be carful with my back) leg press 1000x5. i have personal experince (although not educated) with the pro hormone tren ( took it when I was 18 and was still avliable OTC. I followed the dosing instructions but unfortunatly don't rember dose how often or really anything other then my bench went up to 550x5 and i didn't lose alot of strength post cycle however i did get some Gyno post cycle probably do to inferior pct) and gaspri haldrol ( this was the orginal formula same as tren in terms of followed the dose instructions but ran a very short cycle becuase i was not at all expecting/prepared for my nads to shrink becuase i seem to rember that my nads didnt shrink on tren but i certainly lost any ability to maintain an erection lol) i currently weigh between 255-263 ( i know its a large range but it seems to fluctuate with things like cardio intensity carb intake and even protien intake) at 17-19%bf(caliper test) (lowest ever was around 14-15 on tren)
ive read the side effects of test, moon face, water retention, armatization gyno ect (they all sound unpleasant) i have also read that i pretty much need to take test with anything and for a first aas cycle its absoultluy nessary. The problem i forsee with this is im honestly only intrested in the anabolic effects/fat loss (those that are provided with things like tren and winny)
What is the lowest possible dose of test i can take with a tren winny cycle?
Is a tren winny cycle possible?
Can I take something like sust on a first cycle to avoid multiple injections?
Should I not be this comfortable with tren becuase i took it at a younger age and have less potential to bounce back?
Is clomid a sufficient pct for a tren winny test cycle?
What support sups should i take on a tren winny cycle? (Besides liver support and a multi)
And what would be a good serm to take with this?
Depending on these anwsers i will read/Reasherch more. Any help and knowledge you can provide is greatly greatly appreciated. And im sorry if this is in the wrong area or anything like that im also brand spanking new to forum type discussions (i spend almost all of my time studying and lifting) thanks for your time and consideration

 

[powders101]

A good solid Testosterone base (Enanthate or Cypionate) at 250-500mg a week and an AI (Nolvadex, Arimidex, Letro) on hand in case signs of gyno occur is all you should need for a first run.

 

[thebrick]

A good solid Testosterone base (Enanthate or Cypionate) at 250-500mg a week and an AI (Nolvadex, Arimidex, Letro) on hand in case signs of gyno occur is all you should need for a first run.

Exactly. Keep it simple. You will see very nice gains on this. I did this and grew fast. Then later down the road, you can add other compounds along with the test as your body becomes more "experienced".

 

[MightyJohn]

I'd agree thats pretty solid advice...either Test or EQ base keep it simple

 

[Ironbuilt]

No sustanon .its a compound not for new starters due to esters involved and roller coaster effect of the hormones involved. Basic cyp and I'd use masteron and or proviron for its anti estro properties and go from there..use tren after a few more years .no need to have so many compounds at once at your age.you're tossing up great weight by the way and respect your injuries unlike some.people.keep thinking that way so you can lift forever..

 

[Daveyjones]

I've actully put some great consideration into running master on alone becuase
My understanding is that it armotazies other gear? If this is true, to what degree ? I've also have a quick question about cardio. Is it dangerous to do on a test cycle (or any gear for that matter) (my logic behind this question is that test binds to muscle receptors allowing for greater protien synthesis, therefore will it bind to my myocardium causing thickening of the heart to a greater degree then if i just lift? Assuming i do cardio)

 

[turbobusa]

Like the cautious approach. Little perplexed on some of the excercise
poundages you list. I've been around this stuff forever it seems from highest levels to beginner. Never seen somebody do pulldowns with 500lbs for reps
EVER. I figured you had bencher genetics when I started reading your post .
550 for reps is pretty stout . Took me years to get my best raw 535 for triples. Not a natural bencher though. Anyway cautious approach always best.
Good info for you here. Hope your back problem improves.
600lbs for reps for a junior in highschool with 1 yr training and natty is really big squatting. Have a buddy that held teen world record for age 15 or 16 in the squat . Think his lift was low sixes natty with early 80's pling equipment.
If your back was sound you'd have future in powerlifting at a high level.
Most back strength correlates to different back moves . With a 500lbs pulldown I would expect rows over 400lbs . does not always work that way
but usually there is a "connection" in back moves .
I really want to see someone repping a nickle on pulldowns especially natty or not "on" . Be a first for me to witness so if you are comfortable posting vid of that it would be inspiring to say the least.. Stick around great place here.
Thanks for the thread. T

 

[Daveyjones]

Yea i do it on a plate loaded harmer strength lat pull down machine at la fitness.( and im really sorry about this but, its not that im uncomfortable posting them, its that i am extermly uncomfortable taking them. I hate when people take photos/videos in the gym, i feel like the only reason i am there is to lift some heavey ass weight. i honestly love lifting more then just about anything lol and the only time i feel its nessary to take vids is if ur professional or going to be other then that it makes me pretty unconfertable, im sorry agian for this but i can assure im not lying and really have always been taught that people how lie about how much wieght they put up have tiny penises lmfao) And ur right i have no idea why the hell my bent over rows hurt my back so much i learned how to train from a guy who has a phd in exersices phisiology from university of Miami and now owns his own company traing professional athletes (mostly nfl) so i would think my form is pretty good. (If i don't wear a belt on leg day im in excruciating pain by the time i get to the leg press this happens very rarley as i have learned my lesson in forgetting my belt lol) i also always just assumed that a lat pull down of that much was normal honestly my fave work out is always lats and seconds is a tie beetween chest and legs day. The other thing i just noticed is its actully a 457lb pull down ( 45X10 and the resistance with out any weigh is 7)( i am so use to adding in the extra 45 becuase of the bar) so im sorry about that 45lb inflation my b. and the 600lbs was on deadlift not squat I've always been awesome with that till i broke my back. its was actully not becuase i couldn't do the weight it was becuase one side of the bar slipped out of my hand (grip wasnt strong enough/ had chalk and everything) causing my back to suddenly contort (plus after the MRI i found out my spine was already significantly weakend in that area from playing football)

 

[Daveyjones]

And after reading through a lot of these post/reviews ect. Im also pretty surprised about how much strength i kept form that initial tren cycle my bench went from 350 to 550 in about three months then post it went back down to around low 4s and i had about as shitty a diet as u could imagine. Ever since then my strength had been on a whole different level aside from the lifts im carful with because of my back.

 

[JuicedMuscle]

Thats great to hear, bro!

 

[wideback]

Sounds like a young Ronnie coleman his natty numbers were crazy BEFORE he started aas
e

 

[JuicedMuscle]

Great advice here. Keep it simple.